JAR-PPL and the Night Qualification

[Courtman]

I saw this topic touched on another thread recently, and looking through the JAR syllabus and other JAR texts on the websites I'm confused.

The question is: Can you get a Night Qualification (NQ) as part as your 45hours training?

Reading the AOPA JAR-PPL syllabus it seems to say that the 5hrs is in addition to the 45hrs training required for the PPL.

Reading JAR-FCL 1 Subpart C 1.125 states the following:

Flight instruction. An applicant for a PPL(A) shall have completed on aeroplanes ... at least 25hrs dual instruction and at least 10hrs solo flight time, including at least 5hrs solo cross-country time... (paraphrased, rest is relating to qualifying cross-country)

Night qualification. If the privileges of the licence are to be exercised at night, at least five additional hours flight time in aeroplanes shall be completed at night comprising 3 hours of dual instruction including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and five solo take-offs and five solo full-stop landings. This qualification will be endorsed on the licence.

Now, the ambiguous bit is the additional word. Additional to what? The 10hrs solo/25hrs dual or the 45hrs total? The JAR-PPL syllabus seems to indicate the 45hrs but the syllabus I have is dated 1998 and the JAR-FCL document June 2000.

Does anyone have any experience on this? Or can I download the lastest and official version of the JAR-PPL syllabus somewhere because Google can't find it, and the JAA website is less than helpful...

[GoneWest]

Courtman - I've had this discussion many times - and agreed with you 100%.

Deal is, however, that the PPL syllabus is 25 dual (daylight), 10 hrs solo (daylight) and ten hour of anything you wish - which can be the skill test and/or the night qualification.

AOPA are not the authoratative voice. The syllabus is a suggestion - but not mandatory.

Read FCL1 instead.

[Courtman]

GoneWest,

JAR-FCL1 is vague though, which makes it so unpredictable. I'm going to speak to CAA FCLD on Monday, will post the answer I get here (probably a whole lot of mmmm aahhhh ooohh's!)

However, I can't find anything anywhere that says the 10 solo/25 dual must be in daylight. Where does this come from?

[Irv]

I hear that the CAA have been issuing JAA PPLs with night qualications for only 45 total hours training for some time now - all to do with the minimum specified training being 35 hours, and the rest just needing to be 'training' . I haven't seen one but enough people tell me it happens.

[Mr Wolfie]

My instuctor too is suggesting to me that I should incorporate the Night Qualification into my PPL(A) and so far I am about on track to complete all the specified daylight syllabus within the 35 hours.

I was initially sceptical that this can be done, but he tells me that several of his recent students have done exactly this.

I am still undecided whether or not to do this as I can't help think that this is perhaps trying to run before you can walk. (To be honest, the main benefit to me at the moment would be in finding time to keep lessons up, as it is now too dark after work to fly, and weekends are either already filled with taxiing my 2 daughters around their hectic pre-teens social life, or weathered off).

Flying at 6.00 pm in the dark at least fits in with my schedule, but would it really be beneficial at this stage?

Mr. Wolfie (afraid of the Dark):eek:

[Courtman]

I'm looking into this for Mrs. Courtman, who is learning at the moment. Like you Wolfie, she is hitting time constraints with work etc. and is also progressing well with the PPL syllabus.

The FAA PPL includes night training as standard I believe, and I think its a good thing - it gives you a bit of experience with instruments and also removes the element of needing to get back to base before the sun goes down (despite proper planning sometimes things can go wrong!).

I still can't find the JAR-FCL syllabus on the net anywhere, and can't find definitive proof that this is permitted. I'm going to call the CAA on Monday, but if anyone can point me in the direction of concrete evidence I'd be grateful! I'll post the outcome of my query to FCLD here when I know it...