Bucker Jungman vs Stampe

[Southern Cross]

Am interested in flying both to get a feel for my preference in the air. In the meantime, was wondering whether any fellow PpruNers might have flown either or both and be able to comment on the pros and cons of each type, both as regards pure flying and as an ownership proposition.

Cheers
SC

[stiknruda]

Have flown the Stampe a few times and have a couple of hours in a Tiger.

The Stampe is delightful to fly, the Tiger is a dog! Compared to the Pitts they are both gentlemanly and sedate!

Would love to try the Bucker, though!


Stik

[Croqueteer]

The Stampe is an absolule delight to fly, I owned a Renault engined one for ten years, but although the engine is smoother running than the Gipsy, it is an pig to maintain as new spares do not exist unless you have them made. If I won the lottery I would definately have another. I have not flown the Jungman, but have flown the Yungmeister (sorry if the spelling is wrong) and although it flew beautifully, and build quality superb, it seemed a tad underpowered, however I owned a Pitts at the time so I was probably expecting too much. As has been said before, you can't beat the Pitts for fun/buck. To answer your question, I would go for the Gipsy Stampe. It is a genuine two up aerobatic machine. Have fun.

[Stampe]

The Stampe is a delightful aeroplane I have a lot of time in the Gipsy powered model most probably the nicest all round light aircraft I,ve flown.It is horribly expensive to maintain and I believe all in the UK are on C of A.I have much less experience on the Bucker but have several friends who own them ,they seem very nice handling are much cheaper to maintain as most are on Permits to Fly .I have found the front cockpit of the Bucker extremely cramped and uncomfortable whereas the front cockpit of the Stampe and the Tiger are roomy enough at my girth to be acceptably comfortable.When I first started instructing on a Stampe I could wear a parachute and tighten the straps hard ,by the time I finished I couldn,t wear a chute and had to let the straps full out such is middle-aged spread and beer drinking.I found the Bucker front cockpit very restrictive.Both lovely aeroplanes though wish I couldafford to own either outright.Stampe is a real all rounder,Bucker has the edge in aerobatics.

[Southern Cross]

Thanks everyone. Was the Gipsy Major an original engine on the Stampe as an alternate to the Renault, or did they just get habitually re-engineed due to difficulty in maintaining the Renault?

Stampe, when you say "horribly expensive" to maintain, could you give me a ballpark (?) - I am used to Yaks, which are themselves not cheap, so anything less than a 52 or 50 is at least a start.

Thanks

PS: I know that the Pitts' are storming but am pondering whether some gentle open cockpit meandering would be a nice way to wile away warm summer days... I have been inspired by Victor Smith's book, Open Cockpit vover Africa, which I commend to anyone who wants to know how the pioneering routes across Africa were opened up in the 30's. A fascinating read. The guy made 21 forced landings through engine failure in his 46 year flying career and did not damage a single aeroplane as a consequence. One of those landings, described in his book, was in the dead of night. Not over the Alps then.

[Stampe]

SC. both Stampes i,ve flown have been SV4C/G models originally renault engined and converted to Gipsy power with a crude inverted system.The B is the original Gipsy powered variant the C was the Renault original build hence the C/G.I have no experience of the Renault so can,t comment knowledgably though plenty of Renault ones still fly, though I do hear they are hard to source parts for and are perhaps less reliable than the Gipsy.As for high maintenance costs bear in mind the Stampe has a wire braced wooden airframe and certain airframe items are lifed the tie rods (I believe every 500 hours??) and I think the strut end attachments (not quite sure so best speak to a knowledgable licenced engineer on this).This coupled to being on a Certificate of Airworthiness and the fact that you will certainly enjoy wringing this delightful classic out tends for expensive maintenance.Suggest you go down to the Tiger Club at Headcorn Kent who have one for rent G-AWEF (its about £140 an hour)and sample the breed ,there is considerable expertise in the type there !!.If you want a real laugh try a Tiger Moth as well and just see how awful it is in comparison(I,m taking cover!!!).They have members with buckers there so you may get some real in depth feedback.

[Southern Cross]

Thank you Stampe, that is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping this thread would elicit. And the hint for Headcorn is gratefully received. Try before you buy - always the best policy.

Am waiting for fellow PpruNer "Bucker" to feed me back likewise on the CASA 131.:D

[The Inspector]

Have flown both. 50+ hours in the Jungmann, and 150+ hours in the Stampe. The Jungmann is the nicer aircraft to fly, with very precise handling, although the Stampe is rather good too!

Jungmann

+ve points:

Crisp handling,
very powerful rudder,
well engineered,
steel tube fuselage.
Cleaner design than the Stampe - Faster, goes up quicker,
Flicks very nicely
Can be operated on a permit to fly

-ve points:

Weak undercarriage- if slammed onto the ground, or landed with drift it will break.
Lots of TLC required around the engine compartment, (25hr rocker greasing etc etc) The Tigre engine is not common, hence spares may be a problem. The original Hirth engine version is even rarer!
Can give you a bit of a ride if you forget to lock the tailwheel before take off!
Both cockpits a bit small for fatties, the front one is very hot, even in winter.


Stampe

+ve points:

Nice, easier to fly than the Jungmann with good handling characteristics, a bit like a Chipmunk,
Bullet proof engine if its a Gypsy. If a Renault engine version, get some ear plugs! :rolleyes:
A good aerobatic trainer - everything happens slow enough to see where your mistakes are happening


-ve points:

Wooden, expensive to repair if it gets damaged
Will bounce around the airfield like an Auster if it all goes wrong in the flare,
Runs out of puff in vertical rolls, Otherwise, will do all standard and intermediate level aeros in the right hands...

Thems me thoughts. Not sure about operating costs, the Stampe being a club aircraft (The Tiger Club @ Headcorn -£140/hr) and all the Jungmenn I have been lucky to fly have belonged to mates, so £fuel/hr!

Ideally, I'd have one of each in my imaginary farm strip Hangar........along with a P51 Mustang, Cessna 185, Super Cub, Fournier RF4D, Zlin 526F, Harvard etc etc.....................

[Stampe]

SC just remembered try www.stampe.org the Stampe club site lots of good stuff.Hope this helps let us know your decision.I,ve never regretted aircraft ownership ,not so sure the bank manager is that keen.:D

[Southern Cross]

Thanks once again. Seems this thread coaxed Inspector into his or her first post ! Glad it did.

I found the Stampe website and will head down to Headcorn at some point to have a decent look around their Stampe.