View Full Version : King Air-single pilot/multi crew?
thecoltster
14th Nov 2002, 14:44
Out of interest, quick quessie regarding King Air operations in the UK.
Though a single pilot aircraft, I know that many, if not most operators choose to operate them with 2 type rated crew who consequently both log the hours.
But what would happen if you say owned or managed the aircraft, or your company's aoc said that it was to be flown single crew, could a non type rated pilot (or even a type rated pilot for that matter)sitting in the right hand seat then log the flying hours?
I asked a corporate pilot (not kingair!) this the other day and he was unsure...does anyone have an answer?
Cheers.
Roper
14th Nov 2002, 15:01
All King Air aircraft are single crew. If the aircraft is operated under a UK AOC for public transport then it will require 2 crew, both type rated and as you say, both log the time. This is only because the CAA require it, so under any other operation, in other words not an AOC operation, it will be single crew and anyone occupying the right seat, type rated or not, cannot log any of the flight time. If the aircraft is certified to be flown from the right seat then the smae would apply, only one pilot logs the time.
Many King Airs in the UK are private owned and are flown single crew, even by commercial licenced pilots, but it is a private operation.
CaptainProp
14th Nov 2002, 15:10
The King Air is a Single pilot certified a/c, this means that you can fly it single pilot in private ops or when for example just repositioning the a/c.....However, you can fly the plane in an multi pilot operation requireing you to operate with two pilots....An example would be passenger operations (all operations with payload i think)..... This does NOT mean that it's a multi crew a/c!! Then the a/c would have to be certified for two pilots as minimum crew - all operations!! Does it sound clear? Maybe not, but I think I got it right!!! :)
...except in the USA where it CAN be flown single crew quite legally, and has been for a long time.:rolleyes:
Squawk7777
15th Nov 2002, 01:37
...since you need a type rating for the 300/350, I wonder what the entry says on your FAA license
BE-350S?
I know the CJ is CE-525S ("S" standing for single-pilot)
and there's this other weird thing where you can fly a multi-crew plane single pilot (e.g. CE-550) with a special waiver...
7 7 7 7
The 300/350 KingAir is manufactured under type certificate A24CE and can be flown by a single pilot in FAR91 ops. No special limitation is noted on the license. FAR135 requires two pilots, if more than nine pax seats installed.
However, two crew requirement is established by pedestal equipment location.
The type rating on an FAA cert for the KingAir 300/350
just says... BE300. Covers both versions.
Ref + 10
15th Nov 2002, 11:27
Moku is right about the BE30 type rating. In some parts of the world it also covers the 200 series!
The King Air 350 flight manual specifies minimum crew as one pilot. . King Air 200 is the same!
Questions arise because of the weight category!
BIK....... nup. Doesn't say "and one co-pilot". Checked the flight manual.
This question comes up a lot and it all depends on the flight manual specified crew and what operation it is performing. For example, many Citation V's fly single pilot on private op's but fly two pilot on commercial op's because they are required to because of the weight category.
Grey area I know.............causes a lot of head aches to many people but why not fly an aircraft that is worth millions of dollars/pounds with two pilots. If you can afford one, surely you can afford the pilots!!??
Ref
thecoltster
15th Nov 2002, 13:09
Ok then that's sort of answered that question. What about this one?If the Aircraft is being operated under the public transport category with 2 pilots in the UK or any other JAA state , does that automatically mean that both the pilots have to have gone through the expense of an MCC course, or, as I have heard could they do a shorter and less expensive CRM couse?
Roper
15th Nov 2002, 16:37
Colt, read my posting again, I have answered your questions fully, clearly and with unswerving accuracy... ;)
thecoltster
15th Nov 2002, 21:33
Yeah I heard and understood your gen roper ...thanks, I guess you drive these machines? My question is now regarding when the aircraft is operating in the multi pilot guise, and whether or not these pilots are obliged to have done a full MCC course, which as I understand, costs a lot more and takes alot more time than a CRM course which (as I am led to believe - but anyone correct me if I am wrong) can be done in a couple of days and cost a couple of hundred quid as aposed to a couple of thousand pounds?
Please put me back into line if I am way talking giberish, however this is what I was lead to believe having spoken to a king air pilot...I have been trying to contact him to ask but haven't been able to get in touch with him! Maybe someone here can answer this?
Sheep Guts
16th Nov 2002, 17:53
This all depends on the Model, what options it was ordered with, the type of operation 91,135 etc. And client requirements as well, some contracts stipulate Multi-Crew.
Even the B1900 is a Single Pilot machine ( essentially a King Air on Steroids), I once met a Pilot from Raytheon who had just repositioned an aircraft to Brisbane, Australia from Witchita, Kansas Single Pilot. Obviuosly it was 91 Ops and he would of had an ATP.
A classic example of options ordered, was when the US ARMY ordered A90 King Airs in the 60's ,they were configured for 2 crew ops, ie dual instrumentation, sources etc and repositioned fuse and breaker panels.
But generally I think you would have to be rated on the Airplane before logging rightseat, depending on your country requirements.:)
niknak
16th Nov 2002, 23:03
OK, despite the legal niceties of what ever country, the 200/350 must be a bit of a handful for a single pilot, solid IFR approach, crap weather, after a very long journey?
Surely it must be a demanding operation stretching the limits of any pilot?
Not with an autopilot...and they don't go on strike for more pay.
Ref + 10
17th Nov 2002, 00:47
Niknak,
Not really. Most King Air's I know of are flown single pilot. Multi-crewing them is the exception, not the rule.
Ref
Our KingAir 350 was flown single pilot or two crew depending on the mission. It basically came down to what our client wanted.
Charters on behalf of TAG were always 2 crew, Raytheon was either. The aircraft was a dream to fly and quite suited for single pilot ops. As with any aircraft just stay ahead of it and it was fine.... If you did let get away.....it would bite back hard!