Britannia FO recruitment

[RobinHood]

Hi all,

REF: Britannia First Officer recruitment

Just wondered if anyone on here has received a 'no thanks' letter from Britannia.

The interviews are being held week beginning 11/11/02 (today) and I am pretty brassed off that so far my application has gone completely unacknowledged. I have not yet received any sort of letter despite me submitting the huge application form well in advance of the closing date.

If i'm unsuccessful i'm unsuccessful - this I accept.

What is disappointing is not even being informed - either way.

All thoughts/views I am interested to see.

[Capt Homesick]

At a guess, by submitting your form so early, you got to the bottom of the stack- comparing notes with some friends, it seems that the earlier they put their forms in, the later their assessment dates are!
By the look of things, they are being very thorough with this recruitment; until they say no, you're still in with a chance...

[Bluebaron]

Still waiting for my call. We've been told to expect interview dates (hold Pool) on 26/27November but no confirmation as yet.

Do you mean to say the assessment dates are this week or the interview dates?

we are following D/E selection on this Thread:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70642

[Freak On A Leash]

What I`ve found to be the case is that more often than not the companies will not acknowledge you unless you have the minimums or they want to keep your application on file.
Don`t get your mind set on just one company, send applications to everybody!!!

[Notso Fantastic]

Can we try and remember this is Reporting Points? Look at the Forums introductory page to get an idea of where postings like this should be made.

[Localiser Green]

"more often than not the companies will not acknowledge you unless you have the minimums or they want to keep your application on file."

I responded to the advertisement on their website, which stated no minimums. Yes, ideally you would be 757-rated, but that was clearly not a requirement.

I spent a great deal of time carefully filling out a pretty ridiculously long application form, having a passport photo taken and posting the application to Britannia.

I met the minimum criteria, and therefore expect a response (like RobinHood said - either way, a response is a response!). To not respond would simply be downright rude.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying I should have had a response by now - simply that I expect to receive one.

[KERDUNKER]

For what its worth I meet (exceed) the minimum requirments and I have not heard either way, not v good. I also posted form back a couple of weeks prior to deadline.

[Freak On A Leash]

You`re right. A response is a response, and you should expect to get one from a company which is advertising, and yes, it is rude. I`ve had a couple of those no-response companies the last year. At first it p!$$ed me off, but now I see a response as an acknowledgement of existance in this harsh world of aviation. Just don`t let it get to you, and try not to hold a grudge - you could possibly be working for the company sometime down the line.

Since you ideally needed a 757 rating, you should expect to have some people in front of you in the hiring pool, that is if you don`t have one yourself. That`s just the way it is. And another fact of aviation is that it often comes down to recommendations and who you know.:(

[Goforfun]

What does Britannia have to offer? Surely your (sadly) better off joining easyJet.

[EPLS]

I understand that Britannia took on 5 CTC cadets on during the summer all DUTCH, again another UK based airline recruiting non nationals. :mad:
Britannia want 30 FOs this time, lets hope they have the sense to employ at least one UK national

[Ray Ban]

EPLS,

Are you sure all the CTC cadets taken on by Brits were Dutch? The reason I ask is that I understood that at least a few were Cabair Instructors who had passed the CTC scheme. However, the issue of foreign nationals flying for UK airlines is an important one and has yet to be addressed.

[faacfi]

why are you mad if Britannia hires non UK pilots?.JAA FCL have been set for this reason. and you can apply in Holland if you wish.

a pilot from New york can apply in California under the FAA system and noone complain, ...it would be nice if we can do the same thing here.what do you think?
Think: EUROPE!:D

Good luck to all guys applying with Britannia!(Britannia will answer to all of you. )

[DU vs UO]

Worked for them, but I would rather give up flying than to work for them again.
Join Easy or Ryan at least you get a fast command, with BY you wait 15 years and trust me that are very sad years.

[buttonmonkey]

Faacfi,

Ever tried applying to a French registred airline? Try it and then tell me that other countries subscribe to your idea of European integration. JAA, in theory a nice idea, is in reality an ineffectual joke.

[x]

Considering DU vs UO's post, I'd like to offer an alternative opinion about working for Britannia: I am a year 5 F/O with them.

Yes, it is a long time to command, but most people that join BY stay with them for the rest of their career; although I am still a number of years away from promotion, I will hopefully have 20-25 years in the left hand seat.

You have good control over your lifestyle; for a start, you have a choice of 10 airports to be based at in the U.K. (BRS, CWL, GLA, MAN, LTN, LGW, BHX, STN, EMA, NCL). There is the option to do either long and shorthaul flying or shorthaul only, plus voluntary overseas postings in the wintertime (5 or 10 weeks based in Singapore with your family if you fancy that at the beginning of 2003).

We have very stable rosters, thanks to a -2/+2 block window, and I currently know what I am doing up to mid December. Being a holiday airline, the wintertime is fairly quiet (just 8 days' work rostered for me this month!), providing a chance to recover from the busier summer season or pursue other interests if you so desire (a number of pilots have their own businesses).

The flying we do is fairly straightforward; shorthaul will almost always be just 2 sectors for a day's work (ok, could be Geneva & back or Tenerife & back; that's just the luck of the draw!) in a very pleasant aircraft that is way over-powered for the job (like a trip down to the newsagents in the Jag, someone once said!)

Plus we still have a final salary pension scheme, decent pay scales plus a number of other fringe benefits (flexible working scheme, loss of licence protection, etc.); I took home £3,729 last month for 47 hours flying (18 sectors).

Sure, you won't get a fast command with Britannia, but, from my experience, your time in the right hand seat is anything but "sad". And No, I'm not a management pilot!!!

x

Oh yes, the CTC guys weren't all Dutch, by the way; the chap I met in September was from good old Blighty!

[EPLS]

RAY BAN

Britannia did take on 5 Dutch CTC Pilots plus yesterday Air 2000 interviewed 7 CTC Cadets of which only 2 were British, lets hope to god the Brits got a look in.
JAR and the European employment is a great thing but just read any advert for KLM that states you must be fluent in Dutch. I have a friend that has just landed a job with Air France again the only reason he got the job was he had both UK and a French passport. Unfortunately employers are very short sighted in the UK and with no effective union (I am a member of Balpa) continue to employ non-nationals when many many good UK pilots remain unemployed. Easyjet and Go both employed many ex Sabena pilots, do you think these pilots will stay in the UK for long. These non nationals will be seeking employment in their own country and will at very short notice move back to wherever leaving Easyjet or Britannia to pick up the pieces at short notice.
If you are looking for work and find your potential job has been taken by a type rated Croatian then write to your MP or Join Balpa and force them to do something (HUH)
Regards

[blue up]

Re "X"s posting. The company has looked after me very well afetr my recent cancer scares. It is always a good measure of an employer to see what they do when the proverbial hits the fan. No complaints on that score for me.

As for the workload. I'm above him in the seniority list and took home about £2550 last month, have just completed a 53:35 duty hour week and will have flown 98 hours in 28 days. Depends veeeeery much which base you work from. Our winter roster is harder/longer than our summer roster. The benefits are greater at the overstaffed bases where you can pull in double money from selling days-off back to the company.

Regardless, we get paid for sitting on our asses all day with almost no threat of redundancy!;)

[Goforfun]

faacfi,

Take your cause to IBERIA (2 non spanish), Alitalia, Air France etc- it wont be long before your europe argument falls flat. IT's ONLY the UK who welcomes EUROPEAN pilots in for employment. Not a bad thing- I just wish this thing EUROPE existed and life would be so dandy.

:cool:

[invisiblemoon]

Why Air France, IBERIA, ALITALIA...only take nationals ?

Simply because non nationals just can't speak fluently the language of the company and it's a prequisite !!

Now why there's so much non nationals in UK ? You're right : it's because French, Dutch, Spanish.... DO SPEAK ENGLISH VERY WELL.

.....

A French wannabee

[Lazlo]

EPLS,

No it is you who are wrong. I fly for Britannia as well and have met several of the CTC pilots taken on in the summer and they were all British.

Besides, who really cares anyway? Only those who can't get jobs and are desperate to pin the blame on anyone but themselves, that's who.

Lazlo

[Crosswind Limits]

In principle there is nothing wrong with UK registered airlines employing foreign nationals, be they European or from further afield, providing they have the required experience and qualifications. The world is a global market-place after all. However, many wannabes feel aggrieved that there is very little reciprocity between the UK and mainland Europe.

To argue that many Europeans speak good English and hence are able to apply for UK jobs only goes so far to justify what is happening. English is the main aviation language worldwide but the downside of this status is that every man and his dog speaks it. So if you are a pilot from mainland Europe and your second language is English you're sorted. Whereas, if you are British, what pray should be your second language? Take your pick of French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian and the list goes on.

In theory JAR sounds great but in practice I'm not sure any more!

[Splat]

CL,

Spot on. I'm fluent in Spanish and have made enquiries. Unless you connected, forget it - that's all that counts.

S

[EPLS]

Lazlo
Unfortunately you are wrong I have been employed by a scheduled airline working from a London airport for many years.

I have many friends some who are ex military pilots who have been unemployed for over a year now and find I differcult to understand why employers take on these economic migrants who will once trained and have built up enough hours move to Lufthansa or KLM at short notice.

Balpa gives advice on these issues as do the IPA so I am not alone.

If you think about the CRM issues you should be concerned as aviation English is different to needing information read from many manuals in the flight deck and acted on! Listen to London ATC and some UK carriers have pilots who can just about understand a heading change let alone the further actions after a single engine go around
Regards

ps I understand Brittannia are good to work for and my information is from one of your guys plus friends who have paid dosh to CTC.
:)

[Wilfred]

Nice one x. I am of the same vintage and would concur with your appraisal of the company. It is true that we do not get that sort of money every month, but the options are there if you want to make some extra cash. I also agree with comments of how well you are looked after in terms of welfare.

It is such a shame that the impression our Human Remains department gives of the company is one of we just cannot bo bothered. I am sure it is not their intention, and it belies the fact that this is one of, if not the best company to join these days. Do not be put off. As for comments of recommendations getting you in, that could not be further from the truth. It may get you an application form, but then you have to jump through all the hoops like everyone else.

I spoke to HR the other day on behalf of a friend, and they said that letters would be going out at the latest yesterday (12th), so hopefully the waiting will soon be at an end. It sucks I know, but it will be worth the wait, as will the effort to prepare for the battery of tests. Good luck.

[Lazlo]

EPLS,

You are making an issue out of nothing. I can only think of a couple of pilots in Britannia who are from elsewhere in the European Union and a handful from around the world. We have over 400 pilots and over 90% are British. But at the end of the day the company will hire whoever they want, so long as they are legally allowed to work in this country. It is not their business to get political about it, and it is certainly none of your business what Britannia's recruitment policy is. In fact I would suggest that if Britannia actually had a policy of hiring British nationals only, and no other EU members then they would find themselves in serious legal trouble. If you are so incensed by this perceived injustice I suggest you go into politics and try to undo 25 years of European integration. The reality is that the numbers are few but people like yourself try to inflate the issue. Remember there are Brits working all over the globe for airlines in all countries. We regularly staff our Swedish airline with British pilots to cover shortfalls so, you see, you are wrong that there is no reciprocity (and no I don't speak Swedish).

As for your military friends, surely you must realise that this past year has been a terrible one for hiring. Almost no one was hiring and those airlines that were certainly do not owe anyone a job. Just because your friends may be ex-military and very capable does not provide any guarantees. Britannia have only just started hiring, as you know. At any given time there will be a pool of pilots who are unemployed. Some are just plain unlucky and keep falling through the cracks even though they would make very suitable employees. Some are totally unemployable and blame the world for their failure. The former will eventually get jobs and the latter hopefully never will but they will certainly be very noisy about it. Your friends may well be in the former category but, I say again, this past year was a dismal year for jobseekers whether they are British nationals or not.

Lazlo

[HARRY GREYHOUND]

Can we get back on topic I.E Britannia FO recruitment and not another boring debate on hiring foreign nationals ZZZZZZZZ:rolleyes:

[KERDUNKER]

All the previous is interesting but has anyone actualy been invited for a chat, I to received my no thank you today upon return from a trip in some pretty crappy wx.....I, like some of the above met stated minimums so who, if any have had good news? :confused:

[AMEX]

One of my mates (yes i have some ;)) has been interviewed today. About 4000 hours TT mostly jet, no 75 Rating.
Heard about someone else flying in the 40 tonnes+ also invited.

[Flying Clog]

Myself and at least three other guys from my company (that I know of) were invited for an assessment day. We all have at least a couple of thousand hours with 600-1000 hours regional jet time.

[Canadiankid]

Out of curiosity have the assement days taken place or are they still being scheduled? I am assuming these are the psycometric tests etc. with full interview to follow if successful.

Cheers

[acm]

EPLS,

You are a real idiot. I am French and I 'm working with a UK airline and I probably took the job of a British national.
First of all, you can apply for a job anywhere in Europe.
Second, thoses Dutch CTC cadets pay good money to CTC or Cabair or whoever to get their licence keeping the flying school industry healthy in the UK.
Third, I try to buy a house in my hometown in France: I can't. The price went up because too many British, German or Dutch people are buying everything. Look what's happen in Spain (Alicante, Palma, Malaga ...) or Nice, or Britanny. Look where Ryannair and Buzz are flying in France. British and German are everywhere ! It is now very difficult to buy something in your own country.
But I am not complaining, because we need to transport the Brits to their new house and those people are filling the plane I'm flying, thence providing me a job. They also help the local industry.
So to make it simple, you are taking our home and we are taking your job. Europe is good for each side, maybe in a different way.
Finally, I bought a house in England, pay tax, go to Waitrose once a week, use local builder for all sort of home improvment, etc.., which means I am contributing to the local economy.
You may be on the wrong side of the stick at the moment, but you should have a global view of the problem.
Or maybe you want to go back 50 years ago when our grandfathers were killing each other ?

[Goforfun]

"Or maybe you want to go back 50 years ago when our grandfathers were killing each other ?"

ACM are you sure they where not helping each other? :p Funny way of showing it.

[High Volt]

My apologies x, I beleive that it was "X" that I was thinking of! Post deleted - sorry old chap.

[x]

No probs, High Volt, thanks for deleting it

x

[B757RATED]

Regarding the recent interviews and sim tests has anyone heard form Britannia?

Are they offering a base with a contract or is the base assignes after completion of training?

Another important issue is the Pension. Will it be final salary for new joiners?

Ta

[Bally Heck]

Hi B757Rated.

Don't know the answer to your first question, but when I joined the base was offered on the day of joining subject to vacancies.

BALPA is currently balloting members over this years pay settlement which, if accepted will result in the final salary pension being retained for new joiners with slightly poorer benefits than for incumbent members. This is a trade off against accepting an inflation only payrise for two years.

Hope this helps.