View Full Version : Trislanders
It would appear as though I am about to get the opportunity to fly a trislander. I currently fly an Islander (amongst others) and was wondering what the big differences were between the two by way of handling and aircraft systems.
Is it a fun aircraft to fly???
Cheers in advance.:)
Mango3
9th Nov 2002, 04:32
If it's the long nose version, then correct balast is vital. Been a while since I flew a BN3, but I think they all have extended tip tanks. The transfer pumps were known to fail, so know the transfer rate! I recall too that the brakes were the same as the BN2, but you're carrying around a lot more weight. Accidently landing with a minor tailwind will burn out the pads fast. Been there, smelt that! We once had a drama with the X-feed system. With all 3 engines (260's) running, fuel was somehow being transfered into the other main tanks. Correspondence between self and the manufactuer never resolved that problem. It didn't occur on the BN2's I once flew. Overall, I'd have to say that correct ballast assuming the version described above, is critical. Never let the baggage folk pull bags from the forward locker before emptying the rear first. Makes for a good photo if this occurs, particularly if the tail-stand isn't in place! :D
Thanks. It is a short nose model.
Is it possible to run the engines on the wing from the main tanks and the centre engine from the tips?
On an empty positioning flight might you consider shutting down the centre engine to conserve gas or would this make the prospect of an engine failure a bit too hairy?
This may seem like a stupid question but how hard is it to check the oil on the centre engine? just a big ladder required?:rolleyes:
Mango3
9th Nov 2002, 05:18
From memory, the transfer pumps pumped fuel directly into the appropriate main, so I'd have to say "no", you can't transfer directly into the centre engine. This was why it was important to know the transfer rate, particularly since the gauges (typical) were not reliable.
As for assy centre engine ops: The BN3 is no Orion! With the centre engine inop, expect high CHT's, redline temps & pressures on the other two. I experienced this once before, and with only 1 pax aboard, OAT ISA+15 we managed only 3000'.
As for checking the #2 oil level, no real drama. Standard climb onto the wing, then a walk down towards the tail. An empty aircraft shouldn't create any problems here.
There should be some fellows out there who flew the BN3 from PNG Douglas times. Maybe they could offer some comments too?
As for being an enjoyable aircraft to fly, that's a hard one to comment on!
Mango3
9th Nov 2002, 10:24
Just re read last comment. Can't be assy with a centre engine inop.
:rolleyes:
Weight & Balance: Several yrs ago, a CP I know spent the time to calculate all combinations of W&B. The booklet was a gem. You'll need to consider balance ahead of weight with a BN3 although the short nose variant may be more forgiving...
Pinky the pilot
12th Nov 2002, 03:30
GAMAN; Send an e-mail to Bpu re this subject. He was the Deputy Chief Pilot of Douglas Airways in PNG when I was with them. I only logged three hours ICUS in the BN3 with him and that was over 11 years ago.
Hope this helps.
tmpfisch
12th Nov 2002, 10:54
The fuel system is quite similar to the BN2. The tips can only be transferred into the mains. The wing engines can feed from either main, the rear engine can be selected to feed from either main or "both". I only had 1 fuel Tx pump go U/s, but from memory they are supposed to be inspected/cleaned every 100 hours, so try to ensure this is done.
BN3 is probably even slower in roll than the BN2 and a bit heavier in pitch. It is a bit faster 135-140 TAS, I found 100kg of GW made around 1 knot difference of TAS. It will get up and boogie at light GW and a cold day. Main trick I found was the pilot's eye height on landing, you are still really high when the mains touch down. Also on landing, I found (when heavy) reducing power on the outboard engines but leaving a smidgeon on the centre produced nice smooth landings. Seemed a bit easier to land than the BN2 once the height thing is mastered.
Ground handling pretty easy with the nose wheel able to unlock and castor- but watch the wing tips. They stick out even further than on the BN2 and you can't see them.
Very cold aircraft to fly in winter, you will probably find it doesn't have a heater. rear engine seems to be more susceptible to plug fouling. Also stuggles to climb when full on a hot day, but runway performance is still pretty good.
Just my rambling thoughts. Feel free to email for more info.
Torres
12th Nov 2002, 19:43
The Islander and Trislander used to be a common type endorsement. About as similar as a Bell Huey and a Caribou (both green!)
From memory, the correct model for the two (?) in Australia is BN2A-MkIII, not BN3 and both have short noses. They are both ex Bush Pilots Airways, Douglas Airways and Cape York Air. I'm surprised they aren't out of wing cycles?
GAMAN, do you really want to go there?
GAMAN
12th Nov 2002, 20:52
TORRES They say curiosity killed the cat but I am very keen to try my hand at the three engined beast.
Thanks everyone for replying. Something I haven't been able to find out is an approximate empty weight for the short nose Trislander. I know they can vary by the specs but an example would help me with the sums I am doing to find out how much you can stuff into the things.
Cheers.
Torres
13th Nov 2002, 01:22
GAMAN. Can't remember the weights but I'm sure those two in Australia will legally carry up to approx 1,400 kg payload.
God be with the pilot that does, especially if one of the donks quits!
Life gets interesting if the pilots exit the aircraft before the tail end passengers..... And expensive!
Some years ago noted aviation journalist, renown aviation publication editor, devoted patron of the Cairns Aero Club, aviator extrordinaire and legend in his own lunch time, Paul Phelan, managed to "acquire" secret technical details on the Bongo and Tri Bongo, I think from some railway foundry in the UK. The paper discussed very interesting and detailed technical theories on how Bongos converts high frequency vibrations to levitation and convert noise to thrust.
Anyone still got a copy of the document? I think it may be of assistance to Gaman. :D
It is rumoured there is another twelve brand new Trislanders somewhere in Australia. Some guy wanted to install V8 engines.
And the world's only long nose Islander is (or was) in Australia. It had been the original test bed for the Turbine Islander. Don't remember the registration.
GAMAN, contact nasa. He loves them! :)
GAMAN
13th Nov 2002, 04:31
Yeah torres I have the very article. Bloody funny at that. I am sure it is equally aplicable to the trislander as the islander.
Another thought, I know it is all relative but is it any quieter up the front of a trislander than an islander. At the moment I have to use ear plugs and my trusty D.C.'s to keep my brain from rattling around up there.
The Tri flys hows it looks, not the most responsive but a stable platform for instrument flying. Have about five hundred hours in the long nose (BN2 Mk 3 series2). Will need ballast for single pilot ops with no payload. An awful aeroplane in a strong crosswind, need to use assymetric power until you have enough rudder authority on the take off roll. Only flew an Islander a couple of times but it appears to be a much better performer. Saying that quite often carried 17 pax and bags on short hops in the Tri, but forget it on a hot and high day. Watch the tips very easy to misjudge your distances taxing.
Torres.....You have obviously mistaken me for someone else.....Never had the pleasure (yeah rite) of a Trislander, although did spend considerable time trying to talk a chap in WA from buying one, but to no avail :eek:
Wasn't the attempt to do the V8 thingy being done in Port Macquarie?????
Torres
18th Nov 2002, 06:17
nasa. Obviously you didn't talk hard enough - he still bought the Trislander from me! Must be a record - sold two Trislanders in one year! :D
I heard the new Trislanders were stored at Port Macquarie. Talk was an aluminium V8 - can't remember whether two or three engines. Thank goodness it didn't happen - quite enough Trislanders in the world already. In fact, I think there was around 140 built, and that's 150 too many!
You didn't make Longreach, nasa?
Torres.....I recall now. How do you sleep at night :D :D
Had thought about Longreach, but the prospect of consuming alcohol was most concerning, plus I had a plethora of kids throughout the weekend (only 4 of them mine) so was constrained to crowd control.
Mr Insurance (Tait) was trying to contact you prior to the weekend. Did he get you??
I notice you appear to have acquired a somewhat larger physique since we last met :eek: :eek:
Torres
22nd Nov 2002, 20:26
Not only did I sell two Trislanders, nasa, but also sold two Aztecs, all in the same 12 month period! :D :D I would think that's a record that even your most scurrilous purveying of used aircraft can't match!
No doubt its one of those two beauties GAMAN intends to attempt to defy gravity in! Of, dear......... Those daring young men in their flying machines!
A quick check of the Aussie Register shows only VH-BSP and VH-MRJ in Australia. GAMAN - post the Trislander rego here - you may hear some interesting anectodates! And check http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~ito-nori/trisla10.html for Trislander specs, but don't take the 157 kts cruise too seriously!
As Scud used to say of the Trislander "What a beautiful thing!" (Anyone know where Scud is these days?)
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~ito-nori/prop/jpeg/tris3M.JPG
Mr Insurance has been in touch.
Yes, I guess the physique is a result of leaving the aviation industry after 30 years. I can now afford three meals per day! :D
Another "Beautiful Thing":
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~ito-nori/prop/jpeg/prop17.jpg
The box new Trislanders came in!! :D
(A 1960's futuristic art creation by Short Bros, Belfast, railway foundry and ship builders! Who said a brick won't fly!)
chimbu warrior
22nd Nov 2002, 21:22
Torres............ it was remiss of you not to remind your diligent readers of the importance of accurate weight and balance calculations in the Tristar......surely you recall the demise of the Provincial Air Services machine at Annenberg? It is now keeping company with a 402 at the bottom of the Ramu river.
I was on the same team as you Torres, and despite being the world's largest operator of Islanders, RDB knew a lemon when he saw one and was never tempted by the BN3.
I do recall PAS and Douglas pilots telling me that the Tristar carried less than an Islander in the highlands. I think there are one or two BN3's in Fiji and Kiribati these days.....good place for them.
And I almost forgot....regarding the "box the Trislander came in"....you no doubt recall the SC-7 of Bougair............they sent a beancounter to the US to buy a DHC-6 and he made two crucial errors. Firstly, he came back, and secondly he had bought a "sort of" Twin Otter!
And I almost forgot....regarding the "box the Trislander came in"....you no doubt recall the SC-7 of Bougair............they sent a beancounter to the US to buy a DHC-6 and he made two crucial errors. Firstly, he came back, and secondly he had bought a "sort of" Twin Otter!
Torres
22nd Nov 2002, 21:38
G'Day Chuck. Wet the bed this morning? :D
I didn't think Provincial ever operated Tristars? Thought they only had three Gomads in the rego series VH/P2-IA_? I'm sure only Bikkies had Trislanders in PNG?
The C402 amphibian was P2-SAB - which should have been P2-SUB! You may recall Capt Mike didn't even get wet! :D
Well I remember the flying brick at Bougair. Your story is almost correct - they sent a "Consultant" overseas to buy a Twotter but forgot to give him a picture. True story - I remember the guy well. I don't think the Bougair Skyvan ever had two engines and two U/C legs installed all at the same time. I recall seeing it being painted with house paint and a brush. Waste of good house paint!
Sorry to hijack your thread GAMAN. :(
lurch
22nd Nov 2002, 22:24
kind of on the topic...what was the go with the trislander airframe that sat out front of the dero club in moresby? whos was it and is it still there?
GAMAN
23rd Nov 2002, 03:49
Yeah BSP is one of them and the other I think is de-registered.
We are only operating from sea level and 25c or less so I am hoping the performance will be okay with the last row of seats out for bags.
It will take some convincing for me to believe that the Shorts in that picture actually flies, ie seeing it for myself.
Mango3
23rd Nov 2002, 05:47
Trislanders T3-ATD & ATE (both ex Air Pacific) are now in ruins behind the hangar at Bonriki Airport, Tarawa. These two a/c eventually ran out of time so were scrapped. Those wishing to sync 3 260's in the Pacific may have to look elsewhere!
Icarus2001
23rd Nov 2002, 06:02
Does anyone know anything about the Australian conversion to a Single engine turbine in the number 2 position only.:eek:
I think it is called "Integrity" but can't find anything using Google.
Chimbu chuckles
23rd Nov 2002, 09:00
I remember the response I got from a Douglas Airways chum when I asked what the Tristar was like to fly!
"4 and a 1/2 tons of 20 year old junk!!":D
Gotta wonder about a 50% 'increase' in 'thrust'/vibration over a 260 Bongo with a 100% increase in weight:eek:
Still an all...at low alts in cool weather(and full seats) probably a licence to print money...like a 207 ;)
Glad to say it was not among my multi piston endorsements...1600+ hours on the Bongo saited my appetite for Brittan Norman's gifts to pilots:D
Chuck.
Torres
6th Dec 2002, 00:56
Here you go GAMAN, this should get your hormones working - and get nasa panting with desire...........
http://www.oldprops.f9.co.uk/Trislander%20VH-BSP.jpg
This is the very beast you intend to attempt to disprove the theory of gravity!
Isn't it a beautiful thing! :D
Torres You should be horsewhipped with blunt barbed wire for that :D :D....I do believe I know some people that would volunteer for the job :p :p
Travelling Toolbox
6th Dec 2002, 04:43
Torres
The warrior is correct mate. One other BN2-Mk111 was let lose in PNG by someone besides bikky and I am pretty sure it was with PAS though can't swear (memory fogged by too much time/ale). And it did indeed go for a swim off the strip and stay there! However many parts were retrieved by ginger beers for recycle and some did find their way to bikky and the Douglas birds.
Gaman
One other qualification I see no one here has has told you about.
Can you play the church pipe organ mate?
If the answer is YES, then you should have no trouble in the Tristar cockpit. When you see the mixture controls you will know what I mean.:D
High Altitude
6th Dec 2002, 05:49
What about the Raven...
chimbu warrior
7th Dec 2002, 09:55
The Pacific is not yet cured of the sound of outa-synch Lycomings......Air Fiji are currently operating a "Tristar", and rumoured to be seeking a second.
And believe it or not Torres, it is flown by none other than "Dangerous Dave"..........
Torres
7th Dec 2002, 20:18
Dangerous Dave - heard he was in Fiji. Should be able to get a whole Fijian village into the Trislander!
Must be masochists if they have one and looking for another! Sounds like a job for nasa! :D
HA, what's a Raven? (Aside from a black bird.)
Capt Vegemite
10th Dec 2002, 06:28
Ramu Grant told me later at MP's wedding how he opened the crew door while the 402 was afloat, walked on the wing and opened the cabin, roused out sooty and when they were swimming to shore stepped nimbly on their heads and never got his feet wet.
(Howls of laughter as everyone looked down at Mikes size 16 Blunnies)
GAMAN
10th Dec 2002, 08:58
well the first of two has arrived (VH-NKW) however in a less than flyable state. I shall attempt to post a photo here but forgive me if it doesn't work.
Any stories about the history of VH-BSP or VH-NKW would be appreciated as well as a steer as to who can give good operational and handling advice.
Cheers.
edited because suprise, suprise the photo didn't work. any one have any hints on how to do this with a photo on your pc?
TIMMEEEE
10th Dec 2002, 21:40
I distinctly remember talking to an old Provincial and Douglas mate "Gangrene" as he was known and yes Provincial did operate a BN3 Trislander that came to an end apparently on takeoff in the Madang Province somewhere.
It flew into a river at the end of the runway and a few locals died simply because they couldnt undo their seatbelts.So very sad.
The BN3 was ok to fly, a bit of a truck to wrestle with as it was heavy in ailerons as mentioned but it was slightly faster (135 kts) and carried a good load.
Great aircraft for coastal flying but we used to scare ourselves in the hills around the Western/Eastern Sepik Province occasionally doing the RPT run from Vanimo to Wewak and back and also around the Madang province (Aiome,Tep-Tep,Sangapi etc etc).
The thing that made me laugh was the rear vision mirror so you could see the rear engine and the red flashing light that told you of the failure of the number 2 (rear) engine.
The balancing trick walking along the spine of the aircraft roof to check the oil and grabbing the rear engine once you got there so you didnt fall brought back fond memories.
Great after a night on the SP!
Even burnt out the brake pads once or twice too!
A $hitbox.maybe.
A truck....yes.
Character building and a challenge to fly...............definitely!
Capt Vegemite
11th Dec 2002, 03:08
Yup it done a dead spitter of the 402 plunk in the drink off the end of Annanberg.
I think when they were salvaging and diving on it they found the 402 as well, someone could ask Dave Miles if they see him around Port Morbid.
Travelling Toolbox
11th Dec 2002, 03:14
Capt Vegemite
Isn't Milesee on the north coast - so to speak?
Capt Vegemite
11th Dec 2002, 03:24
Tooly hope we talkin about the same Milesy?
OzExpat
11th Dec 2002, 07:52
Dave is definitely in Port Morbid... or, at least, he was a few months ago, last time I saw him. Methinks TT is thinkin' about that other Miles bloke... :D
GAMAN
22nd Dec 2002, 06:54
Folks, we now have a working trislander. However one obstacle lies in our path. We have no trim sheet for the aircraft. Does anyone out there have one stored on their computer or know who has access to one. Either a whiz wheel style or the other type (not quite sure how to describe it!) would be perfect.
again thanks in advance.:)
john_tullamarine
23rd Dec 2002, 04:00
For a beer or ten I could probably knock one up for you ...... email if you don't find any joy elsewhere ...
Torres
23rd Dec 2002, 04:13
Col White, Cairns Aircraft Maintence or OzWeigh weighed the beast and would have the trim sheet. Alternatively, contact Cape York Air.
Capt Vegemite
24th Dec 2002, 10:25
This abomination would have to be in Queensland right?
The only place you'd get punters dopey enough to get on one.
Torres
29th Dec 2002, 00:26
Vege old horse. I'm pleased to confirm there are no Trislanders in, or anywhere near Queensland. :D :D
I sold the last two from Cairns, one going to West Australia (via a brake failure and other hassles at Alice Springs), the other going to Victoria.
And that's a feat even nasa can't match! :D :D