Security & Fire Strike at UK airports

[Doodles]

BBC reporting that airport fire crews and security staff rejected a BAA 1.7% pay rise offer and have voted for strike action. Meeting Monday to plan any action.

[newswatcher]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2415079.stm

[Grafter]

AIRPORT STAFF VOTE TO STRIKE

SEVEN UK airports are facing strike action following a ballot of BAA workers.

Members of the Transport and General Workers' Union have voted for the move, following a rejection of the latest pay offer from BAA.

Any strike would involve firefighters, security guards and operational support workers employed at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Southampton, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Tim Lyle, T&G national secretary for aviation, says: "There will be a union meeting of senior stewards next Monday to plan the industrial action."

He describes the vote as showing the staff's "sheer frustration at the company's offer, given the increased workloads and responsibilities following September 11th".

Mr Lyle says: "Coupled with the knowledge that traffic figures have improved and the company is in profit, our members justifiably feel that the pay offer falls short of what they deserve."

The voting figures are 65.44% in favour of strike action, and 34.56% against. Turnout in the ballot was 78%.

[chiglet]

Looking at the 6 o'clock News , the "London Fire Brigade" will provide cover:rolleyes: , [B]but there are "Contingency Plans":confused:
Please, WIHIH????
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[airbuddie]

Good luck everyone !

not sure if London Fire Brigade have the necessary training.

Still, got a better deal then Security who work for Manchester Airport.

40% pay cuts (£8,000-£12,000)
New health threatening rosters
42 hr wk up from 38
single rate o/t
5 days less holidays
if you work a bank holiday you get NO lieu day !!
if you don't work a bank holiday you get the lieu day !!
no shift pay when sick

all the above implemented 25th april 2002

but if you are a director of MAplc you will be enjoying a 30 - 40%
rise in pay

and this is an airport owned by 9 labour councils !

hope the TGWU don't let you down, they let security down


Checkout www.magalliance.com for more information of above dispute

[jumpseater]

Chiglet, I saw the same report, the usual poorly researched 5hite from 'responsible' journo's. In the following post I will not comment on my feelings towards the industrial action, trawling reporters please note a payment towards the pprune fund if you plaigarise any of the following! This is what BBC journo should have said:

The RFF cat does not change if the 'civil' brigades are unavailable, the airport authority has to be able to provide fire cover under normal operations hence the RFF categories. In the event of a civil strike the green godesses will turn up if they are available but the accident/incident must be able to be dealt with by the airport service, regardless of whether the 'civvies' are available. If the union elements of them do go on strike then the RFF cat may well be degraded or reduced to an unworkable level for most operations. The easy way that this may occur is a series of short 3-4 hour strikes at co-located airports eg LHR,STN and LGW simultaneously. This will mean that the destination and primary alternates will not be available, diversions, crews out of hours, positioning flights etc. Only needs two or three strikes. say Monday morning rush hour and Friday night rush hour, easy, absolute sodding chaos!

The security is slightly easier to deal with, just get pax to report much much earlier, and if they ain't there, then go without em, stay on schedule, no refund as action out of airlines hands. Mr and Mrs public very quickly losing any sympathy with the strikers. And Mr and Mrs Airline sue the TGWU for damages.

These could be co-ordinated, start with the security, if the BAA fail to respond, up the ante with the Fire service, oh and alternate the action on a daily basis.

Now lets sit back and see which media outlet uses this first! Remember you saw it first on PPrune.org!!!

[Capt H Peacock]

Perhaps someone at Hounslow Municipal may be able to correct me, but I understand that the airfield fire service is not responsible for 'domestic' fire cover ie terminals buildings, the tower etc. If the action coincides with action by the civil fire service then with no fire cover, we ain't gonna do any business!

You have to ask yourself what kind of nineteen year old macho business studies graduate thought that offering 1.7% to anyone would be unconditionally accepted by any group of workers.

It's almost an article of faith these days that you're not any kind of a manager unless you bring your department to the verge of industrial action.:confused:
edited for poor smelling

[ajamieson]

Jumpseater thank you for the information; it is appreciated.

Thing is, I only have 420 words to tell the whole story. While I would love to reprint a detailed technical explanation of the airport fire service requirements, it just isn't possible. This morning (http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=1243232002) I simply said: "BAA is unlikely to operate its runways without [airport fire service crews]." We're broadly in agreement, are we not?

Interesting question about the terminal buildings. BAA press office told me yesterday that (up here at least) airport fire crews cover the buildings as well as the runways. I queried this, but they were adamant. In the spirit of endeavouring to find the facts, perhaps someone could advise otherwise?

[EGPFlyer]

At Glasgow, anytime a fire alarm has went off in the terminal or any other airport building, both the airport crews and Strathclyde's finest have attended.

[jumpseater]

I am aware that the RFF category is solely for an aircraft accident/incident, and that is their primary duty. At airports I have worked at they will hand over a terminal incident to the 'civilians' as soon as possible, so they can return to their primary duties, and not affect the RFF category. At the bigger airports a terminal fire may not reduce the RFF cat, however at the smaller airfields a terminal incident may well reduce or eliminate the fire cover available, if the local civilians are on strike. If they have an aircraft and terminal incident simultaneously it will be a difficult call to make.

And yes aj we're broadly in agreement, I do realise copy space is limited, and that some of our tech stuff would make dull copy too!

[canberra]

at heathrow the airport fire service has a domestic engine, often seen on the airport series. as regards to the baa airports, well in scotland they can put all the traffic for glasgow to prestwick, and leuchars/dundee and inverness can take the edinburgh and aberdeen traffic! and as for lhr,lgw and stn send it all to manston, wattisham northolt and luton!

[srs what?]

Aerodrome RFF crew have to complete Hot Fire training on an aircraft rig every 3 months something that Civil Fire Fighters don't do.

However, I believe that under JAR Ops the responsibilty for correct RFF Category at Aerodromes lies with the Aircraft Operators. Now an Aircraft Operator can accept a lower category RFF if other measures have been put in place.

An example is Debonair. They wanted to set-up a schedule to Pontoise which is published as CAT5 but the BA146-XXX that they wanted to use was a CAT6 aircraft requiring one more firefighter. Debonair were able to negotiate that everytime their flights operated in and out of Pontoise that Jean-Claude from the local fire station would jump into his Citroen and go to the airport to provide the extra man.

[Woodman]

SRS is right. It is up to the operator to ensure that the airport has the correct category of fire service for the size of aircraft operated. The airport declares what category is available at any particular time. If the aircraft is too large for the category available, you divert or do not start engines.

If some of the fire staff go on strike then it is likely there will be a variable category declaration shift by shift. So when the shift change time arrives the category can change which might cause problems for the landing stream of aircraft - and those waiting to take off.

On security, the passenger search teams will either stop or delay passengers going airside in the terminal. Annoys the passengers but doesn't directly affect aircraft.

Access security manning the gates will affect departures as no security then no access. Most likely result will be managers manning one (or more) gate with consequent delays and queues.

[BEagle]

Having listened to the airport workers' spokesman on the radio the other night, I have to say that the grievance they have seems perfectly legitimate. He made his points quite clearly - and the paltry pay rise being offered by the BAA does seem to be scandalous.

How much are the workers actually asking for? Is this going to ACAS first - or will the general public, thoroughly pi$$ed off with Uk airports in general, vote with their feet.

Wake up, BAA!!

[ajamieson]

1 INDUSTRY Airports 14:23GMT 11NOV02 SCOTWIREX
AIRPORTS TO BE HIT BY ONE-DAY STRIKES
By Alan Jones, Industrial Correspondent, PA News
Firefighters, security guards and other workers at seven airports, including Heathrow and Gatwick, are to stage six one-day strikes in a dispute over pay, union leaders announced today.
The Transport and General Workers Union said its members will walk out on November 28, December 2, 10, 15 and 23 and January 2.
The airports – Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Southampton, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh – will not be able to operate on strike days, said the TGWU’s national officer Tim Lyle.
mfl

[GustyOrange]

BEagle,

What is so scandalous about a pay offer exactly in line with UK inflation ?

I'm really fed up with people going on strike because they are not clever enough to have secured a higher earning job.

Too many people in this country just don't see themselves as being responsible for the position that they find themselves in.

Gusty

[Doodles]

Six one day strike dates announced - the last two make interesting reading 23 Dec and 02 Jan! Does everyone think this will go ahead now?

[Departures Beckham]

FYI: BAA's Press Release (http://www.baa.co.uk/doc/4e8527e84d03fbca80256c6e0051856a_main.html)

[Grafter]

AIRPORTS STRIKES CALLED

FIREFIGHTERS, security guards and other workers at seven airports, including Heathrow and Gatwick, are to stage six one-day strikes in a dispute over pay.

The Transport and General Workers Union said its members will walk out on November 28, December 2, 10, 15 and 23 and January 2.

The airports - Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Southampton, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh - will not be able to operate on strike days, said the TGWU's national officer Tim Lyle.

Mr Lyle said he hoped the strikes could be averted, and maintained that BAA could afford to increase its offer after making big profits this year.

Workers felt frustrated at the offer, given their increased workloads and responsibilities following the September 11 outrage, he added.

[Jet II]

GustyOrange

What is so scandalous about a pay offer exactly in line with UK inflation?

Nothing - however BAA is still making profits and the Directors certainly did not get a rise this year 'in line with inflation' (Directors basic salary up by about 5%) - Sauce for the goose etc.?

I also see that the NATS guys are going on strike over the scandalous bonuses paid to their directors.

The sooner that senior management start to take a 'fairer' attitude to the pay of ALL staff, then you may see less industrial unrest.

[peeteechase]

Just as my airline starts to recover from 9-11,
kicked in the proverbials by the TGWU.
No sympathy and totally disgusted
PTC

[srs what?]

I'm really fed up with people going on strike because they are not clever enough to have secured a higher earning job.

Have you actually got any idea the sort of training now required for an Aerodrome Firefighter these days? There's plenty of books to be read and a lot of knowledge to be learnt.

The responsibility that goes with the job is no less than someone sitting at the front of a 747. They have a 'duty of care'.

Should you ever have the misfortune to be involved in an aircraft accident would you rather wait for someone with a degree to come and help you or would you be willing to lower yourself to be rescued by someone that's prepared to risk their own life to save yours?

[GustyOrange]

JET,

BAA is still making profits, you are correct, and profits normally accrue to the providers of capital, ie shareholders.

I agree BTW that a lot of executives are overpaid as well.


Gusty

[nojacketsrequired]

GustyOrange,I feel your posting was a little arrogant stating it's peoples own fault they can't find a better paid job.

Not all people have been given the fortune of a private education,
perhaps even received a poor state education due to the standards of that school or even they were not born as a gifted
intellectual.

In no way should this take away their right to a better pay and maintain their standard of living.

I for one have the greatest respect for the job the airport firefighters do and who may some day save my backside.
As for security I rely on their vigilance to stop more idiots getting on planes intending to cause harm to passengers,crew and anyone else who gets in their way.

NJR.

[Captain Spunkfarter]

srs what

Totally agree. This idiot obviously hasn't got a clue about the physical and mental demands upon you guys.

Let him burn.

[srs what?]

Captain Spunkfarter

I'm not actually a Fire Fighter myself but I do work closely with them and know several who work for BAA.

They are all a dedicated bunch of Professionals that deserve a bit more respect. As I've said there is a chance that every here might need them one day.

[30W]

How do airports stand licencing wise with domestic firefighters on strike??

Accepted the airport RFF category is based on the airfield fire service, but each airport itself holds a CAA licence for operation.

Part of that CAA licencing is the airports emergency plan. Every UK airport I know of includes the local fire services as an integral part of the emergency plan. i.e. they are called as support units in the case of a pre meditated emergency occuring.

Surely airports will not be complying with the terms of their own emergency plans whilst domestic firefighters are on strike, and hence not complying with the terms of their CAA issued licence.

Anyone any better informed on this subject than I who can shed any better light upon it?

30W

[GustyOrange]

NJR,

It wasn't intended to come across as an arrogant posting.

I merely intended to state my opinion on the subject.

I think that if anyone is unhappy in their current position they should leave and find a position that they are happy with.

People knew the terms and conditions on offer when they started working in their current position, I'll bet that for most guys their t & c haven't deteriorated that much over the last few years.

CS,

Please refrain from personal abuse. It's not clever, nor is your username.

Gusty

[srs what?]

I think you are missing the point. As a result of new legislation their job is changing in various ways with greater responsibility and far greater training requirements.

A Captain on a 747 would expect more pay than a Captain on a F50 for instance. If your job requires you to do more then you would expect more money. Quite simple. However, the BAA Firefighters main argument isn't so much the amount they're paid more the fact that their annual pay increase fails to take into account the increase in cost of living.

Only Pi*s poor Management would give themselves an increase of 5-6+% and then claim there isn't the money to give the workers any extra.

Sure you and others will be inconvenienced, but isn't that the idea of strikes - to get their point across and known to the public?

[ajamieson]

I think that if anyone is unhappy in their current position they should leave and find a position that they are happy with.

Such an easy solution, I am amazed no-one thought of it sooner. :rolleyes:

[GustyOrange]

SRSW,

The cost of living increased by 2.1% over the last year.

BAA's offer constitutes an increase of 6.3% over 2 years.

This is obviously an increase higher than inflation has been recently, and given the possibility that we could be on the verge of global deflation (IMHO) not too bad a deal.

Given the above I would have to disagree with your assertion that these guys are fighting a degradation in their income relative to the cost of living.

If you feel that I am wrong on any of this please point out where.

Gusty

[QuackDriver]

Hmm,

I think the point is not the value as much as the disparity of the award. If the management feel that they are worth - say 5%, why do they think the workers who deliver the service to the customer are not?

if it is a case of money e.g. 1.7% of a £n Million wage bill is bigger then 5% of a £n/10 Million wage bill then come out and say it. Then start exploring alternatives.

Then justify why the managers should get a 5% pay rise - (they'd otherwise leave to a higher paid job :rolleyes: )

Then take deep breath and wonder how your work force is going to react when you deliver the message ..........

Finally DUCK!

Quack

[EGCC4284]

Does this mean that EGCC is going to get hammered with
diverts and if so, my hearts go out to all at EGCC who are
going to have to accommodate extra planes and find them
even more remote stands to put them on.

Remember, when you get into EGCC,
you wont get out with out a refuel like all the other diverts.