Pilot convicted in Norway

[dontdoit]

From ITV3 teletext:

A British airline pilot has been given a two-and-a-half year prison sentence and told to pay £20,000 compensation for raping a stewardess in Norway.

Marcus Orr, of Wilmslow, was convicted by an Oslo court of raping the woman at the city's Radisson Hotel last October.

Orr, 34, suspended from work by British Airways, was told he could return to the UK pending a possible appeal.

[Brenoch]

Umn, sounds like he has got his future pretty much figured out..

[ShotOne]

mmm...what does your inane airbus comment have to do with this thread?

[Capt.KAOS]

hmmmmm.... a hooker @ $250 would be much cheaper and much less time consuming.... bad choice...... was he on auto-pilot?

Cheers

KAOS

[M.Mouse]

The individual concerned was not, and has never been, employed by British Airways.

[Tinytim]

A "very unsafe conviction" according to anyone who knows both parties - particularly the complainant and indeed expert counsel.

So, do not stand in judgement at least until the outcome of any appeal is known.

[newswatcher]

AN AIRLINE pilot raped a stewardess during an international stop-over.

The British Airways first officer subjected his 34-year-old victim to a terrifying assault after tricking his way into her hotel room in Norway.

In court Mrs A described how Mr X, a former Greater Manchester Police constable, had been drinking into the early hours, and suddenly attacked her after saying he wanted booze from the mini-bar in her room.

The 34-year-old Manchester Airport-based pilot, who is engaged to be married to another stewardess, denied raping Mrs A in Oslo in August last year. He was found guilty after a two-day trial and sentenced to two-and-a-half years behind bars but was allowed to return to the UK pending an appeal.

On the night of the rape Mr X, along with Mrs A, the flight captain and another female cabin crew member, were staying at the Radisson Hotel, Oslo, and were due to fly back to Manchester the following afternoon.

They spent the evening drinking in a bar. The second flight attendant caught an early bus back to the hotel while the others returned in a taxi just after 10pm.

Mr X went back to the captain's room for "a nightcap" while Mrs A went to bed. She told the court how she had been asleep for about two hours when Mr X telephoned, asking if she had any drinks left. "I assumed they had run out of drinks and said yes - although I was annoyed at being disturbed," she said.

Mrs A, who had been sleeping naked, wrapped herself in a duvet before opening the door to her colleague. She described how he went to get the drinks from her mini-bar while she sat on the bed with her back to him. The next thing she knew he overpowered her and forced her on to the bed.

Mrs A said: "His eyes looked evil - he looked like somebody on drugs. I was really frightened." After the attack Mr X began to cry and told her he didn't love his fiancée. She agreed not to tell anybody of the incident.

Mr X claimed he had gone to Mrs A’s room to retrieve a jumper she had borrowed. He claimed he spent about five minutes in Mrs A's company. However, according to the hotel's electronic key card times, he did not return to his room for an hour.

When asked about the discrepancy, he said: "We had all consumed a moderate amount of alcohol that night and perhaps it distorted my perception of time."

When asked why his colleague would make a false accusation of rape, Mr X said he had no explanation. "I've worked hard to get where I am. I would never do something so stupid as I have so much to lose," he said.

[TDK mk2]

M.Mouse,

I believe the individual involved is employed by BA Citiexpress, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways. Would that not make him an employee of B.A.?

[Capt.KAOS]

They spent the evening drinking in a bar. The second flight attendant caught an early bus back to the hotel while the others returned in a taxi just after 10pm.

Mr X went back to the captain's room for "a nightcap" while Mrs A went to bed. She told the court how she had been asleep for about two hours when Mr X telephoned, asking if she had any drinks left. "I assumed they had run out of drinks and said yes - although I was annoyed at being disturbed," she said.

Is it allowed by BA Citiexpress that their air crew is involved in debauchery the evening before a flight?



Cheers (?)...

KAOS

[Bigpants]

Does M Mouse=Management Man?

Had the BA CX aircraft piled in at Manchester the next day no doubt a spokesperson from BA would deny it was a company aircraft while repainting it with Whitewash!

[Cathar]

TDK mk2

No, the employee of a subsidiary company is not an employee of the parent company.

[M.Mouse]

No I am not management but funny how just what we all expected happens. A subsidiary, franchise, codeshare or whatever the relationship is blurred.

He works for a subsidiary company not BA.

Hence my statement.

[jet_noseover]

No, the employee of a subsidiary company is not an employee of the parent company.

It is just semantics.

Only wondering, than.... do the pay cheques come from the parent or the subsidiary company?

One works for the outfit that authorises the cheques. Yes?

One lad who worked for KLM subsidiary for a time told me that when he reached the retirement age he has received full KLM ret. package. As if he worked directly for the company. Does BA work different?

[Hand Solo]

Yes BA does work differently, very differently. BACX pay the BACX employees pay cheques, not BA. When BACX employees retire they do not receive the full BA retirement package, in fact I don't know if they receive any BA retirement package at all. It is not just semantics. BA used to own Go, did that make Go staff BA employees? No, it didn't.

[GEENY]

But she was not annoyed enough NOT to let him in his room,middle of the night and naked (nearly).
In U.K. a case like that would be dissmissed...,no?

[dodgylanding]

I've worked for two BA subs.

One had no pension scheme, the other was in the BA pension scheme.
They had varying travel perks and degrees of management independence.
One payroll was done by BA Pay Services, the other (after BA PS cocked up the MDs salary twice), wasn't.
When a facility shared between BA PLC and a sub was closed recently, there were major differences in redundancy packages, depending on which side of the line the employee worked, although both wore the same uniform.

Working for a wholly owned subsidiary does not mean you work for BA PLC.

I now work for an IT company, largely on the BA account. Essentially, BA pay my wages. Does this mean BA employ me?

[Lou Scannon]

No Geeny, hopefully in UK he would have received a far longer sentence.

It would seem that he used his position as a crew member and therefore workmate of this lady to talk his way into her room under false pretences. He then proceeded to rape her.

The fact that the lady allowed him into her room to take drinks from the mini-bar excuses nothing.

She has my sympathy. He does not.

[Sledge]

Strange point that, what aircrew do you know that actually use the facilities of the understocked and overpriced mini bar ?

[Moses Mashomba]

Geeny, shame on you!

Because she opened her door and happened to be wrapped in a bed quilt, she invited a sexual attack? Maybe the guy could not overcome his 'natural urges' as a full blooded male, and therefore can be excused from raping her?

I thought those attitudes went out with the Ark!

The VICTIM could have been a prostitute on the street, and I'm not suggesting for one minute that this lady was, but that would not alter the situation one little bit. Even a prostitute, who might willingly sell her body to those she choses to, has the right to say YES or NO.

Rape is Rape!

[corp.f/a]

In the eyes of the public if he works for BA express then he works for British Airways!!!!
More importantly how is the girl that was raped getting on after such a horrendous experience?

[B Sousa]

In todays world its the easiest case to get a conviction on.... "The Cry of "Wolf" has all do gooders in position to make a case. This is mainly as a result of the many years of doing nothing whatsoever for true victims.
As I no nothing of the particular case I cannot say guilty or otherwise.. However, half naked ladies allowing drunken pilots in their rooms should share a little of the weight of the problem just for being stupid.............and drunken pilots doing these deeds should find some time to reflect in the Grey Bar Hotel.

[Horatio]

Bert

Call her stupid if you like. Maybe she is stupid, I don't know. I know lots of stupid people. So, because someone is stupid they get a share of the blame if they are raped? or murdered? or violated?

Come on now, your comments are verging on the border of stupidity; so how would you like it if a big man forced you down and inserted something that you didn't want or care for? Is part of that blame down to you, for scoring high on the stupidity scale?

Bert, I'm not calling you stupid. I am however trying to make you realise that every adult has the right to say Yes or No. If it is No, then it means No. No degree of stupidity or thoughtlessness lessens the crime.

Now, whether the guy is guilty or not, that's not for us to judge. That is the job of the court and the appeal court to decide. If he is guilty then he deserves whatever they throw at him, no matter how hard he has worked to get where he is. He won't get any sympathy from me.

[Lou Scannon]

In this business we spend time in close proximity to the other sex to a remarkable degree. Sometimes we even have to share rooms . There always has to be that barrier that until it is lowered, you keep your hands to yourself.

If you can't convince someone of the advantages of you getting up close and personal-you have to keep clear.

In every company for which I have worked, a male who forces himself on a female has always stood in greater danger from his fellow pilots than he has from the law.

...others, with a more persuasive personality have left the rest of us with a deep sense of personal inadequacy!

[B Sousa]

Horatio......
I am well aware of what is right and wrong. No should mean no.....However, it has been shown that some say no just for fun and others dont recognize No when other factors are involved. This appears to be the case here....
We have an excess of Lawyers who build big homes on cases like this so I will let them have the fun.........Chill a bit....

[BEagle]

That last post was utterly outrageous. I ask you to withdraw your comment, jockmcstrap.

My sympathies to the victim of this appalling crime.

Edit: My post referred to an earlier one by jockmcstrap, now withdrawn, not to the post by B Sousa.

[jockmcstrap]

comments withdrawn

[Notso Fantastic]

I'm a little perturbed by the compensation issue. If someone robs your house or mugs you/beats you up whatever in Norway, can you get compensation this easily? Why compensation for alleged rape? It brings in a motive or financial incentive to go screaming to the law 'rape!' at any time! Does it give her 'payment' for the alleged incident? I can see a case for punishment (if a crime was committed), but this large payment introduces other unpleasant factors.

[Lou Scannon]

Notso, this is not a case of alleged rape, the court has found him guilty so we can drop the adjective and it would be fair to the lady to do that. The evidence has clearly proved the case.

[Strontium Dog]

Lou Scannon ( and the rest of the lynch mob,)

I've waited a long time for this day you pompous *****.

Just to put the record straight, the pilot who you were so ready to put down has this week taken his case to a higher court.

The case was heard in the Norwegian Appeals court in Hamar.

The verdict was NOT GUILTY !!!

This was a case based on hearsay & conjecture, with no objective evidence submitted to the court.

This case would not have made it to court in the UK, but the relaxed laws surrounding the qulaity of evidence in Norway were exploited to the full, allowing this travesty to continue for 2 years.

I hope in future you may approach matters with a slightly more open mind.

[maxy101]

Wonder what the chances of him getting his job back are? It may be in his favour not to be employed by BA. If he had been, his chances would have been ZERO.

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Maxy101 - Are you a complete authority on BA disciplinary policy - I hope he comes back to work and if he doesn't he seeks what he is due through other means :mad:

[maxy101]

OldSeaDog, I hope you're right.....Let's just say those of us on the other side of the fence know how it works here. I wish him all the luck in the world.

[Strontium Dog]

This story has hit the headlines again.

It was on the front page of last nights Manchester Evening News.
Links to the the individual stories are as follows:

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=53970.html

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=53971.html

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=54022.html

It is incredible that had this pilot not done his own investigation into the so called evidence against him, that he could now be behind bars in a foreign prison.

Scarey stuff... :}