What do airlines want

[carbonfibre]

OK burnt the hell out of this one im sure seen the threads but here goes:


If an airline is recruiting, are they going for hours first, attitude, aptitude or all 3 would be nice for them.

Is it mainly a bit of right place , right time, or is that for the smaller guys to do without there big HR departments?

It would be nice to here from the horses mouth, Anonmously, of course.

If anyone could throw some light on this, would be appreciated.

Keep on flying :eek:

OK just to throw in some more, not withstanding the the US system allows for some scope from Zero, flight instructor to ATP, what about the euro boys, the JAA is geared around letting the low houred boys / ladies onto aircraft RHS.

And do the airlines actually consider the hours gained by flying a cessna around an airfield trying not to get killed by every potential wannabee as constructive??

[arviator]

Sorry I can't help, but I am with you! I have absolutely no idea how the whole system works. One day everyone wants you, the next, you are gutter fodder! Beats me.

[RadarContact]

Answer is simple -> money!

How to get most of it, though... You've seen what happens.

[GlueBall]

Notwithstanding that you have several thousand hours,
Our Sim evaluation ride is to find out:
1. Can you fly a jet?
2. Can you fly instruments?
3. Are you trainable?

If your demonstrated performance is acceptable, then you may be hired conditionally for 12 months. It's a "probationary period" during which any new hire, regardless of "being a good stick," can be given the boot for any reason, up to and including the fact that: "We just don't like you. Thank You. Bye, Bye."

[kwaiyai]

Hi Carbonfibre,
I guess its not much help but I got a letter from Air2000 today(standard go away letter). interestingly enough they asked me to reapply when I had there minimum's, I quote:
1) 1500TT I have closer to 2500 although all credit they do say with preference to those with Turbine or Turboprop time.
2) ATPL, which one UK,USA and shortly Malaysian?
3) MCC, again which one I did one last year with 4forces and just redone it with JetLinx in a 757 sim at Cranebank cos I thought it might help.
Just wanted to say I agree with arviator.
All the best
:confused:

[I. M. Esperto]

I think the PIC time in multi-engined aircraft is a large factor.
I also think that airlines value someone who has been military trained.

[arviator]

I wish I could agree. I have PIC multi-engined, multi-crew IFR turbine time, but it is not working at the moment. Like I said, it beats me!!:rolleyes: I also think airlines value people who are not military trained. I would like to think they look at the person as a whole, and not just, training, experience, hair colour or whatever. Going back to the original point, does anyone REALLY know what the current requirements are for the majority of airlines?? And where can I get some from of whatever it is??

[Crossunder]

It goes like this (in general, of course):

"Small" operators often do not have the money to put all their applicants through extensive testing, hence they hope that a lot of flying experience will do the trick instead. The majors have the doe and can afford both testing and thorough follow-up / initial training for their young hopeful ones. All this proves all too expensive for a small operator.
There are a lot of pilots out there with lots of hours (no skill or experience, but hours) and the recruitment officers have huge stacks of applications. One way of minimising the size of these stacks is to make a "minimum-hours-required-before-we-even-bother-to-open-your-letter" - statement. Just look at Ryanair; they even set you back 50 quid for an application!

A major airline is not interested in whether you are a great stick-and-rudder C. Yeager or not, 'cause everyone (almost) can be taught how to fly an airliner. And so the main thing is:

- Do you have a license?
- Can you co-operate with complete strangers without ending up
in a fist fight?
- Do you have the right attitude twds flying (cowboy or
professional)
- Can you do two things at the same time?
- Are you self-disciplined?
Equally important is the "company profile" ; do you fit in? You are perhaps the greatest pilot the world ever saw, but this particular Company just doesn't think you'd fit in! Most of the WW2 fighter aces we all like to read about would never, ever, have passed the airline interviews! In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong, Lufthansa won't even consider accepting applications from Lutfwaffe fighter pilots even to this day (at least not back in -98)...

Then we have the many different views on which hours are the most valuable. Some seem to think that operating turbine engines is supposed to be more difficult than piston engines. BS!!! The only advantage you might have by having flown turbo props is that these tend to go faster than do piston engined aircraft (you are accustomed to higher speed, greater weights and better at mental flight path control). Turbine engines are easier to operate and more responsive than piston engines (my personal opinion after having flown both).

How many hours?

Well, the less hours = less bad habits, and the major airline can mold you any way they fancy. You'll become a real Company man!
Smaller operators don't have the time or money for this, and so they'll need you to be familiar with IFR flying and medium-high speed aircraft. You don't get that from PPL pattern flying ;-) They also know that after you've flown your 1000h twin-turbine-IFR-MCC etc. you'll be sending applications al mas all over the globe, and they'll have to recruit new pilots, which costs money. Thus, they prefer "older" people who don't have a shot at the majors anymore. Also, with the smaller operators, it's not as much what you know, but who you know. Also, in a small airline / FBO you'll make captain in a year or two, and you need to have logged enough hours to apply for your ATPL FCL by then. A major airline doesn't have this problem because you cannot expect an upgrade for the next 6-15 years.

The JAA system now seems to force a lot of companies to lower their hour requirements and recruit ab-initio pilots. Not all airlines can afford because it requires expensive initial training.

And yes, there are lots of pilots out there with thousands of hours on MPA with IFR turbine- and jet engine experience, that are still enemployed. For every unemployed pilot there is a good excuse as to why this is so. More often that not they are wrong (I know, because I have been part of a recruiting team and heard both the excuses and the reasons).

If you wanna make it:

Get an aptitude test. It is not without reason that both the majors and the Air Force use them. If you don't have the right attitudes and basic skills it doesn't matter if you have 100.000 hours of B747 and space shuttle flying!

Get your education from a well renowned FTO (check with the airlines which schools they prefer and don't believe what you read in the ads).

Hours are important, but once you have passed 1500-2000 hours on that Piper / Cessna you'd better be looking for something bigger and/or faster...

The old cliche' "don't give up"!

Lastly; I hope I have not offended any major or minor Companies or individuals. I did not intend to, and apologise if someone should feel this way! This reply is based upon my personal experience, from what I have learnt from both working closely with both psychologists and interviewers in two major airlines in Europe, and from interviewing many hopeful candidates myself. I cannot, of course, say that all of the above is the 100% water proof truth for all airlines i nthe world ;-)

Best of luck!

[I. M. Esperto]

I recall one of my "profile" interview back in 1957. I was full of confidence - an Academy Grad. with a multi-engine jet rating, Navy trained, 26, single, etc..

The shrink was a seal snow. He showed me drawings, and asked my reaction. Did you love your mother, where are Harley Davidson's manufactured, and finaly, "when did you stop masturbating?".

I looked him in the eye, replied "When I was finished.".

That floored him. He said "That will be all."

I figured I blew it.

My acceptance letter arrived home the same day I did.

[carbonfibre]

Crossunder

Great response, nice to hear it from someone in the know, answers a few, apptitude tests? of couurse there are many i have had several, one by Bae which was very favourable.

So like you say i will keep plugging away and make my contacts as i go, this appears to be a good way to move on with

Cheers and keep those wings level

:D

[low n' slow]

Crossunder, great reply!

For some reason or the other I thought it was the other way round, perhaps because I've always imagined that you work your way up to the big airlines... But what you say makes sense and explains why there are so many from the older generation in small airlines.

After having failed an aptitude test last spring (still haven't recovered from it yet...) I think I know what I did wrong. When they ask you:
"have you considered any other careers if this fails..." don't say no. That shows that you haven't really seen the pros and cons in the buisness and compared them to other ocupations (perhaps this is wrong but it is my interpretation of the question).

As for what airlines want, I haven't got the slightest clue anymore. Apparantly lufthansa won't considder applications from former AF pilots. However, SAS will even cut requirements if it is stated in the application that you have trained with the Swedish AF. Someone obviously knows something that someone else doesn't!
:D
And furthermore, SAS has decided to let (in rough numbers!) 300 pilots go. Can they afford this? If you consider they training costs when they return... they will have to do a lot of training over again when they get rehired and they probably will if SAS ever picks up again, that is.
As a reply to your headline, I don't think even the airlines know what they want!

best regards/LNS