Weather tomorrow morning

[SteveQB]

Quick newbie question re:weather. I am hoping to have my first proper lesson tomorrow morning (first two attempts managed to be on the worst days of the first couple of weeks of October). I have started learning how to look at the weather and to me

TEMPO 2206 26027G45KT

For EGLL (I am flying from Wycombe, so I guess Heathrow is a good guide) means there is no chance of going up in a little warrior, am I right? I don't know what is the maximum headwind for safe flying, but i would have thought with gusts to 45 knots the plane could just about take off without the engine running!

I have 40 miles to drive, so if there is no chance I won't bother trying, but if there is a small chance I am desperate to get started so I will turn up and see what happens.

Sorry if this is a really obvious question to you more experienced people out there.

Cheers

Steve

[28thJuly2001]

If your instructor takes you flying on your first lesson in winds gusting to 45knots I would look for another instructor PRONTO.
There is no way you will be flying in weather 27G45.

28th,,

[BRL]

Hi Steve. The weather looks bad for the entire weekend, Sunday looking the worst. I don't think you will be going up to be honest. The wind is a bit much for a first lesson and your instructor should call it off anyway. Drive over there anyway, be productive, spend a bit of time at your school and meet the others who will be there too. Ask questions, get to know people, other instructors, students, get info from them. The instructor should take you around the aircraft at least. Ask him/her to do a walkaround or something, don't just waste the day away while you are there. Good luck with the rest of your training and keep us posted here how you are doing. :)

[SteveQB]

Thanks 28th, I'm sure he won't, it's just that the lesson is @9am, and I will have to leave home well before they open so I can't phone beforehand. I phoned this afternoon and was told not to go if the weather is too bad, I just wanted clarification on what was too bad.

Thanks also Big Red L, I thought with a lesson booked on Sat and Sun I would get one of them in, it looks like being 4 booked - 4 cancelled! I may well take your advice and go anyway, but an extra couple of hours in bed.......

Tx for the warm welcome as well.

CHeers

Steve

[28thJuly2001]

What is too bad....hmmmm.
From what I recall I don't think I did the early part of my training in winds above 15knots.
It is hard enough trying to stay straight and level in calm conditions and for the first few hours I think you're instructor will want it quite calm so you can get used to the controls and not spend the lesson fighting the weather.

4 booked - 4 cancelled.....'Welcome to Flying Steve'

28th,,

[Speedbird252]

Hi Steve, yep I reckon you can forget it tomorrow. Regardless of the various wind speeds/directions, the Warrior is only certified for 17 Knots crosswind component (i think). If you try and fly a lesson in over the top winds it only masks what you are trying to achieve, all flying is good experience, but early on you dont need to waste the money!

As you said, 27 knots gustin to 45knts is a total no-no. The Piper couldnt handle it, never mind you. Its a bad time of year now, it will wind you up, but hang in there till the spring, save your money and get some real good flying in. (Dont get me wrong, there is nothing like a frosty still winters day to go flying when the viz is great, we just dont get enough of `em!)

I wish you all the best.


Speedy
:cool:

[Evo]

If I remember rightly it's only slightly off the runway (07/25 at Wycombe?) but even then with 27G45kts you aren't going flying. Sorry :(


4 booked - 4 cancelled.....'Welcome to Flying Steve'


Shoudn't say it, but I lost 7 straight at one point last winter and managed 1 out of 11 between January and March... :( That's life flying in this country I'm afraid. Then again I managed 18 hours in a month (incl. QXC and GFT) this summer so it does behave from time to time

Speedy - good to see you back in these parts again :). I'm not sure if 17 kts is max certified or just the club's limit at Goodwood. I've landed with 16 kts before (they were on 06, wind backed to 330/16 by the time I got back - student solo limit is 10kts but someone forgot to tell the weather :) ) and the aeroplane was fine with it. Not a landing I'd want every time but I'm sure if you were good you could get well over 20kts before it became a drama.

[FormationFlyer]

Speedbird252
Regardless of the various wind speeds/directions, the Warrior is only certified for 17 Knots crosswind component (i think).

Actually there is no such thing as 'certified' for any perf E a/c that I am aware of in regards to crosswind limits. What is specified in the POH/FM is the 'Max Demonstrated Crosswind Limit' - there is nothing legal about it. You can quite legally land in 20kt crosswinds. And believe me at 25kts the warrior is a more than capable a/c. On the other hand the Flying Order Book at the club you fly *is* legally binding and therefore must be obeyed. If the FOB does not specify then its down to what you as PIC decide is a sensible limit for your experience and the a/c in question.

SteveQB
Go along anyway - I really yearn for the day my students turn up regardless.....and you should - there is *so* much stuff to cover on the ground - you can brief, do technical stuff, familiarise yourself with the cockpit, checklists, a good walkround training will take at least 30 mins anyway.

All this stuff is normally crammed alongside flying in tight slot times...but that means you are missing out on valuable instructor time...chances are your instructor will be there regardless and you might as well make him work :D as ground instructionat almost all clubs I know is actually free - but it will make a HUGE difference in your PPL training....so go along anyway....

PS. I know this is kinda after the event re timing - but the advice I am giving here is good for the future...there is *always* something productive I can have a student doing...

Hope this helps,
FF

[Whirlybird]

Am I even less awake than usual, or was that TAF saying "TEMPO 2206", in other words, between 10pm and 6am (UTC)?

No matter; it's too late now. Steve, welcome to the world of flying in the UK, especially for those of us (I was one) who start our training in the windy autumn. I used to say I'd learned more about patience than about flying; it took me a while to realise that learning about patience IS learning about flying. I agree with everyone else; 15kts is probably about your limit, or you'll just waste your money. Other than that, and later on, a wind straight down the runway is OK; a strong crosswind isn't, either for you or the aircraft. And gusts are nasty; I wouldn't like to fly in 27kts gusting to 45, and that's with nearly 500 hours total time. And many schools have a limit for people hiring aricraft, often around 15-20 kts. So that gives you an idea.

But seriously, use the time productively, and for aviation related stuff. If you've nothing better to do, go down to the airfield and ask questions and familiarise yourself with aircraft. Or get some of the exams out of the way; much better to do that now, than when there's good weather and you could be finishing your PPL and flying - but you've got exams to pass.

Above all, don't spend your time fretting about the weather, and how it's always you who picks the wrong days. I KNOW that's advice that's impossible to take! We all do it - but it's worth mentioning anyway. If you do a search on here, you'll find people who've waited months to do first solo or qualifying cross countries - this is aviation. Personally, I was at the point of finishing a flexwing microlight conversion a month ago - all I had to do was go solo (I think a third first solo is a contradiction in terms though :confused: ). It got dark just before I could do it, and we've had bad weather ever since. Well, I did say to my instructor that the word "solo" mentioned to me means a month of gales! So I think it's all my fault, sorry. :eek: Anyway, I won't say I'm accepting it totally calmly, but ....slightly better than the first and second times around anyway.

All this is not to say I don't sympathise, all of us do. Good luck for the next time, and keep us posted!

[tacpot]

Learning to fly within your limits is a vital part of aviation. Resisting the temptation to go flying when it's not suitable is a hard habit to learn but doing so will save your life.

As Cat Driver says, "the hardest thing in aviation is saying No".

[Speedbird252]

FormationFlyer, I hang my head in shame.

You are correct, Although Im sure I could have explained my self a little better tho.....

Your comments appreciated.

And as for you Evo, Ive sent you a PM

;)

Regards all,

Speedywindybloke.

:rolleyes:

[SteveQB]

Just to finish this thread off, thanks for everyones helpful advice. I did go in the end, and it was worthwhile. I managed to get an hour in the air, although my instructor paused to think before we finally committed to taxiing out, it was pretty blowy. I also had over an hour on the ground, and a good half hour doing a very detailed pre-flight inspection.

Whirlybird, you are right about the TEMPO on the TAF, but at the time of posting that was as far out as the forecast went, and I was scheduled to fly at 9am BST, so only an hour after the forecast, and I assumed that it would be similar.

First impression, from someone who has literally wanted to fly all their life (I applied, and was rejected by, BA when I was 18. I also had a serious discussion about joining them again when I was 27, but the lure of my then current job in the city stopped me). It has taken the intervening years to save enough money for a PPL.

There is a lot to learn! I am fast learning that a lot of it is preventing and coping for things that can go wrong. The straight and level flying, and straightforward landings, are relatively easy, but remembering what to do should you ever get into a spin for example is a bit more difficult. I am fast realising why it will take 45 hours minimum, these things have to become second nature before you can go off by yourself.

Thanks also for all the similar stories of cancelled lessons, I don’t feel quite so unlucky now! (although of course my lesson that I had booked for today has been cancelled due to the wind, 75% cancelled so far!)

Cheers

Steve

[28thJuly2001]

Saturday wasn't as bad as expected so you were very lucky to get a flight in.
Keep on posting and us professionals:D will mumble some advice every now and then.

28th,,