UK National Private Pilot's Licence - "Relaxed" Medical Requirements

[fireflybob]

The UK has recently introduced a National Private Pilot's Licence (NPPL). The holder of a (UK) NPPL can only exercise the privileges of said licence in the UK by day during VFR type weather conditions, carrying a max of three passengers.

The medical required for the NPPL can be issued by the holders General Practitioner (as opposed to an Aviation Medical Examiner) and is equivalent to that required for a Heavy Goods Licence - ie Lorry Driver.

I am interested to know how professional pilots flying public transport aircraft feel about sharing airspace with holders of NPPLs with these relaxed medical requirements.

[The Nr Fairy]

Two points.

Firstly, if the person has an NPPL, then as they're daylight VFR only, they're a tad unlikely to conflict with PT stuff, assuming for the most part PT stuff stays where it's told in controlled airspace.

Secondly, how many HGV drivers have died recently from a sudden incapacitating undetected condition ? Any idea ? What about ATPLs who've died at the controls of airliners ? Following what I perceive is your line of argument, how come we're not worried about drivers on the road who fulfil NO medical requirements to hold a car licence ? Maybe HGV drivers should be concerned about sharing their roads with the rest of us.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I think it's a trend with many aviation licences. The ATCO medical is nowhere near as stringent as when I had my early ones..

[fireflybob]

I do see some differences here in the sense that Authorised Medical Examiners have had specific training in aero-medical issues and their impact on flight safety etc.

I have heard that some GPs are not happy to sign the relevant paperwork. I would be interested to know what the AMEs think of this recent move.

I am not against "reasonable" medical standards etc. but when I hear that pilots who have previously lost their medical category (for what sound like good reasons) are now able to meet the NPPL standards I am somewhat perturbed.

The issue of pilot incapacitation is not only relevant to other airspace users. If I am approaching to land at one airport I can think of I may have to overfly a public event where many are attending . I just wonder what sort of lawsuits would be flying around if the pilot concerned had been allowed to fly with these reduced criteria,

[QDMQDMQDM]

It's a real issue. I'm a GP and I don't recall any consultation with the medical profession as a whole about this. It's an intimidating prospect for many GPs and requires a fair amount of detective work and legwork to get hold of the NPPL medical examiners for advice and then assess the DVLA requirements. They should have produced an actual form for GPs to work through for the medical, rather than just a chitty to sign.

Looking at the DVLA HGV requirements there are a number of things on there which allow you to pass and which, if a pilot suffered from them, there is no way I would allow any of my family to fly with them. It's about risk and as the standards go down, the risk increases. Whether that increased risk is acceptable or not is a question people can debate ad nauseam, but that the increased risk exists is undeniable.

QDM

The other issue relevant here is that there are relatively few commercial drivers much over 60 and many of those are managers who occasionally shift a lorry around the yard. I suspect many of the NPPL holders will be older pilots and that in itself carries an increased yearly risk of incapacity, never mind what medical conditions a person has. The analogy that an HGV holder is always fit to fly is not necessarily correct in my opinion.

QDM

[Rod1]

Come on guys, they were sharing the sky with a lot of pilots with no medical at all! The pilots were flying Micro lights and Gliders.

There has never been an accident in the UK resulting from medical incapacity in these categories. The Gilder pilots have been operating this system for a very long time.

Your own doctor will have a much better idea of your general health than an AME who sees you for 20min every few years.

You can kill a lot more people in a HGV at rush hour o the M1 than you could in your average light aircraft!

Rod

[long final]

Very interesting points raised by QDM there.

Rods ' .... on the M1' comment echos many peoples opinion, but can be countered by the fact that a lorry driver has much more time, and is in a much better position, to pull over and stop than a pilot.

It has been pointed out here on pprune many times that the nppl gives, probably, the most advantage to pilots unable to pass a class2 medical, and as pointed out by Rod, I would supect that these pilots who take this option are not satisfied by either micros or gliding. Would this then lend weight to the thinking that they want more seating space and a longer range?

You never know when someone will drop down dead, but there are things in place with the class2 that can give an indication of problems, especially for an older pilot (not being ageist - just a fact of life) I dont think I would want a loved one in that situation.

LF

[maggioneato]

I have printed off all the relevant forms to maybe,apply for the NPPL next June as well as keeping my existing Licence valid. ( I just like giving the CAA lots of money) Notes for the GP were included, giving a list of conditions which would exclude certain people from getting the signature required ,so it does look as if there is some guidance for the GP, after all they do charge a fee,so a little bit of reading would'nt go amiss. I'm waiting for the flack. :D

[QDMQDMQDM]

There has never been an accident in the UK resulting from medical incapacity in these categories. The Gilder pilots have been operating this system for a very long time.

Yes, and they impose some interesting limits on themselves too. Glider instructors -- no matter what their health -- are limited from the age of 70 to flying only with post-solo students who could land in the event of the instructor's incapacity. There was a strong lobby to impose a similar limitation for the NPPL too, effectively limiting over 70s to solo or with safety pilot, but it was not imposed.

QDM

[Rod1]

QDM

You are quite correct about Gliding instructors. There is no such restriction on Glider pilots.

I think there is also a limit on the max age you can fly an airliner, even if you have a medical, and a limit, I think of 70, on being an AME.

NPPL’s are restricted in the max weight of aircraft they can fly, and the max number of passengers, which they can carry. Given the superb record of flying without an aviation specific medical, surly the risk is acceptable?

I should also add that whale the record for self certifying pilots is no accidents ever, the record for having an aviation medical and suffering incapacity, is not so good……

Rod

[QNH 1013]

For goodness sake, don't get so hung up on medicals. We should be more concerned with safety. Safety depends on both man and machine. Mechanical failures and pilot incapacitation are both very small contributors to the total number of accidents. Most accidents can be attributed to human factors which are not covered by any medicals.

These human factors can be broken down into lack of skill and experience on the one hand and lack of good judgement / having the wrong attitude (mental not spacial) on the other. The two are often combined. An example being a fast low flypast to show off (poor judgement) followed by a rapid climb and accelerated stall / spin (lack of skill).

If we are really interested in improving safety, then the areas to concentrate on first are the most common causes of fatal accidents; e.g. Controlled Flight into Terrain, and Loss of Control.
Unless you are prepared to argue for higher standards for the skills tests and more frequent retesting of flying skills I am suspicious of apparent concerns about the NPPL medical standards. I would suggest that the evidence from the Microlight and Gliding worlds shows that the NPPL medical is a step in the right direction. Hopefully time will confirm this.

Just to set the record straight, I believe the current skills tests and NPPL 1 and 2 medicals are about right.
I am also a supporter of the NPPL and pay tribute to the hard work of all those who have made it possible. It is of no help to me personally because it doesn't cover the conditions / aircraft in which I fly, but I still support it.

[fireflybob]

QNH 1013

>pilot incapacitation are both very small contributors to the total number of accidents<

Is that possibly because the medical requirements have, so far, screened out many cases of incapacitation?

I am not against the NPPL but I do have reservations about the relaxation of the medical standards.

The holder of an NPPL can carry up to three passengers whilst exercising the priveleges of the licence.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Time will tell about the increased risk of incapacity-related accidents with the NPPL and maybe it wil be good news. Quite possibly, it will be. All I know is that there will undoubtedly, 100%, be people flying passengers with an NPPL who I would not let any non-pilot friends or relations fly with for medical reasons. (There are many more people, I suspect, with absolutely clean bills of health who I would not let any non-pilot friends or relations fly with for NON-medical reasons!)

I should say, too, that I am in favour of the NPPL principle when it comes to med standards, that the solo / safety pilot cert is excellent and I have no qualms with it, but I'm just not so sure about the unrestricted cert in its current incarnation.

I want people to fly. Honest.

QDM

[Troy Tempest]

Just out of interest (as it is a long time since I took a PPL medical) what are the main diagnostic tests carried out by an AME? I don't recall having any elaborate diagnsotic tests etc or anything like that - however BP and other things such as hearing and eyesight were looked at. Can an examination identify all possible conditions that could lead to pilot incapacitation without a previous history?

My recent NPPL medical took 45 minutes (a thorough examination - not because there was anything wrong!) and included going over my records (which my GP had to hand) which would suggest any previous conditions would be identified (definately a plus point). I came away with the impression that he wasn't going to let me out of his room until I'd convinced him I was completely fit!