A Plea for Common Sense and Decency

[bealine]

Since British Airways have re-awakened the sleeping giant of Internet Check-In and Telephone Check-In, aircraft seating has become an absolute nightmare - to the extent that these excellent facilities may need withdrawing unless customers co-operate!

If you use these facilities - please DON'T take a Window and an Aisle seat on three abreast seating when there are two travelling! Due to the price cutting of our tickets, most of our flights are at least 80% full right up to Christmas 2002 and are likely to be well into the forseeable future! Please book two seats together and, when you arrive at the airport, politely ask if the flight is busy. We can't give you precise numbers, due to the Data Protection Act, but can give a vague definition - "Choc-a-bloc, Quiet etc". If it's quiet, we'll happily give you the window and aisle at the airport!

Believe me, it's soul-destroying for the couple who turn up at check-in three hours before departure only to find they can't be seated together - and this is now happening!

Thank you in anticipation of your help!!!

:)

[Boss Raptor]

Used to have the same thing on the LHR-Moscow flight as BA used to allow block booking passengers with tour companies like Kuoni to pre-book window and aisle seats...

So same thing, get to the airport 4 hours before 'sorry sir no window or aisle seats available'...used to be even more annoying as the tour companies were paying a peanuts tariff compared us regular flyers...and you'd get stuck sitting between two oldies...you in the middle and them either side in the window and aisle seats...almost invariably a couple who would chat across you throughout the flight...

Does no one at BA actually talk to each other...appears not...good luck Bealine looks like your having to take charge again...

Good example of communication...at BA not!

:mad:

[Eboy]

Can't BA give the couple that wants to sit together seat assignments, say, a month or two in advance, as do many U.S. airlines?

[SLF]

bealine

This s not a new problem at all, used to happen all the time out of LHR when transit passengers were checked thru and took all the good seats.

At least with Internet checkin we get the chance to put our towels on the seats first - not before time IMHO!

[Behind the Curtain]

Bealine,

I think the online check-in facility is excellent, getting that window seat on an exit row, and more generally, how easy it was to check in and go through the airport, made a recent trip to FRA and back with BA much more pleasant. :cool:

Are these people changing both seats in one visit to the web site? I don't think the software should allow more than one seat per booking to be specified, the others should be allocated nearby automatically. If checking-in separately, it could be made so that only the first person to check-in gets to choose.

Just this once, I know a bit about the subject :eek:, as my day job involves a railway seat reservation system. Many of these, including the one I write software for, are based on airline systems. Most are clever enough to put groups together, but do seem to have a habit of squashing everyone down one end of a coach.

[essouira]

I'm with bealine on this one. I think the BA pre-booking system is great and it's a shame if it gets abused. I travelled to chicago with United recently and they won't let you pre-book your seat unless you are a frequent flyer. Seems daft to me as I am never going to be a frequent flyer with United now after they treated me so poorly.

[25F]

As you mentioned it, behind the curtain, here's my wish list for GNER's seat reservation system. To be able to request
1. A table seat.
2. Which side of the train it is.
3. Which coach.

You can now tell me that you don't work on the GNER system...

[christep]

We can't give you precise numbers, due to the Data Protection Act

I have to say I find this bizarre... I thought the DPA was designed to protect individual data from public disclosure.

Can anyone with legal knowledge confirm this statement of Bealine?

[Globaliser]

I agree with SLF - 'twas ever thus. I have frequently had res cheerfully pre-allocate window and aisle when the limit hasn't yet been reached.

I've always adopted the decent approach, though, if and when someone has turned up for the middle seat, which is to offer them either the aisle or the window depending on one which we'd prefer to give up. I've never yet known anyone insist on sitting in the middle seat (and they'd be welcome to it if they did). But what you get in the interim is the benefit of that seat remaining low down the priority list for allocation, and maximising the chances of it staying empty.

We can't give you precise numbers, due to the Data Protection ActI have to say I find this bizarre... I thought the DPA was designed to protect individual data from public disclosure.

Can anyone with legal knowledge confirm this statement of Bealine?I'm not sure that it's strictly correct, either. But the DPA is now routinely trotted out as an excuse for keeping all sorts of confidential information confidential. My impression is that many staff are being trained to say "the Data Protection Act doesn't allow me to tell you" because it's easier for the customer to swallow (or be hoodwinked) than if they're told "it's confidential and I'm not allowed to tell you". A little white corporate lie that minimises trouble.

[bealine]

We can't give you precise numbers, due to the Data Protection Act

I suspect you're right - I'm no legal expert (otherwise I'd be earning a fortune elsewhere!) - but I think BA have taken the commitment to the D P A seriously enough to try to ensure nothing that could compromise the individual's privacy, or the safety and security of our clientele is divulged by any staff member. For that, for once, I stand firmly behind BA management!

After all, a seemingly innocent casual remark about the number of pax on a particular flight, could assist someone's husband or wife work out whether their partner's last minute business trip could have been booked at short notice or not! If you relax the rules, it wouldn't be long before a staff member crossed the boundary and disclosed whether or not hubby was on the flight and whether he was with a female companion!

Can't BA give the couple that wants to sit together seat assignments, say, a month or two in advance, as do many U.S. airlines?

On Long Haul flights (except LGW - Orlando), approximately 40% of seats are preassigned at the time of reservation. These are only pre-booked according to (a) Pax with disability or special requirements (eg travelling with infant - bulkhead seats required) (b) Frequent Flyer status -BA Gold and Silver, One World Emerald and Sapphire tiers and (c) Fare Basis (the low-yield fares don't qualify).

The remaining seats are released between 24 and 48 hours ahead of departure. (48 hours for "Through Check In" transfer pax - which is where SLF's previous problem arose

This s not a new problem at all, used to happen all the time out of LHR when transit passengers were checked thru and took all the good seats.

Fortunately for our home-grown clients, BA's transfers are declining, and so more seats are available when the flight goes "live" on-line approximately 24 hours ahead.

Because the passengers on this service nearly all comprise families, the flight LGW to Orlando only has prebooked seats for special requirements and frequent card holders. Between 48 and 24 hours before, the flight is "edited" and families pre-seated by BA staff to ensure most pax, who wish to be, are seated together. Ther hiccups occur when separate bookings for each family member are made by the travel agent or when one family member travels on Air Miles and holds a separate booking....By and large though, the system works well compared to how I remember it years ago! Once editing has finished, the flight is released "on-line", but pax will find their seats pre-allocated with very little opportunity to change.

On Short-Haul flights and Domestic, there is no pre-booking. Full "C" class tickets and Frequent Flyer card holders have seat requests entered which BA does all it can to accommodate, but often has to change due to the position of the Club divider screen.
These flights are released on-line 24 hours ahead.

Funnily enough, it's the short-haul flights that, recently, have become the biggest problem with couples pre-allocating themselves the aisle and window seat!

Sorry to be so verbose, but I would like to clarify why the problem has arisen and thank you for your support!


:)

[MarkD]

Guys,

as someone who works in the IT field, this sounds like bad system design, and as someone who regularly praises BA.com and is an EC member, it's not on to "blame" pax - just have the system on a trigger to be withdrawn once a flight reaches a given level.

Each pax can't know whether they are "abusing" the facility, especially as they don't have access to how busy the flight is!

[BRUpax]

I don't see the problem. First come - first served. Why should my wife or myself be forced to occupy a middle seat when we have made our reservations long ahead? I happen to enjoy a window seat and my wife prefers an aisle seat. If they are available at the time of booking then so be it!

[bealine]

I don't see the problem. First come - first served. Why should my wife or myself be forced to occupy a middle seat when we have made our reservations long ahead? I happen to enjoy a window seat and my wife prefers an aisle seat. If they are available at the time of booking then so be it!


Not a problem at all - if you've no intention of talking to each other for the whole flight! It is a problem, and offensive, if you talk over the poor "Johnny in the Middle" however! - unless one has a window at the back and one an aisle at the front?

As for your comments, "First Come, First Served", this selfish attitude underlines the flagrant abuse of the "Internet" and "Telephone Check In" facility which we, as staff members, cautioned our management about at their inception!


Globaliser Wrote
I've always adopted the decent approach, though, if and when someone has turned up for the middle seat, which is to offer them either the aisle or the window depending on one which we'd prefer to give up. I've never yet known anyone insist on sitting in the middle seat (and they'd be welcome to it if they did). But what you get in the interim is the benefit of that seat remaining low down the priority list for allocation, and maximising the chances of it staying empty.

Now, this may appear the "decent" approach to you. However, how do you think "Johnny in the Middle" feels when he turns up, with his girl friend, only to find middle seats left. Hypothetically, let us suppose you have 16A and 16C. Johnny gets 16B and, because of other unwittingly "selfish" couples in 16D and 16F, his girl friend gets seat 16E. You shove Johnny into the window 16A and his girl friend gets shoved into 16F - don't laugh, it happens! If you had taken 16A and 16B and the other "selfish" couple 16E and 16F, Johnny and his girl would have had 16C and 16D - together across the aisle, but far better than separated!

[Globaliser]

Now, this may appear the "decent" approach to you. However, how do you think "Johnny in the Middle" feels when he turns up, with his girl friend, only to find middle seats left. Hypothetically, let us suppose you have 16A and 16C. Johnny gets 16B and, because of other unwittingly "selfish" couples in 16D and 16F, his girl friend gets seat 16E. You shove Johnny into the window 16A and his girl friend gets shoved into 16F - don't laugh, it happens! If you had taken 16A and 16B and the other "selfish" couple 16E and 16F, Johnny and his girl would have had 16C and 16D - together across the aisle, but far better than separated! I should have been clearer. I don't pretend that I'm not being somewhat selfish when doing that. I would be sorry if that was the consequence, and it sounds like it is becoming so - and I'm glad you are making us aware of it.

However, in my experience, I've never had anything other than a singleton pax turn up for the seat, probably because check-in (or the department dealing with allocation before check-in opens) have done a good job of making sure that the couples do have what adjacent seats there are.

If the scenario you describe had occurred, I would myself have had no hesitation in suggesting that he took the aisle seat, in the hope that the other couple would do the same. In other words, a bit of give and take and mutual consideration solving the problem. If more insoluble problems are arising, then I agree that it may be unduly selfish to keep doing this.

One other thing, though. Some airlines deliberately create this type of situation for their frequent flyers (QF, of which I have much experience). They have a system of automatic pre-allocation of seats as soon as the frequent flyer number hits their booking system. If there are two singletons in a row of three, the middle seat is blocked for as long as possible to maximise the chances of it staying empty. So there the airline actually does automatically what you would prefer us not to do! (I suppose it's QF's problem if it makes life difficult for itself.)

[Boss Raptor]

The customer should always be given and deserves/demands a choice...the BA automatic allocation system completely negates that and I have also discovered has anomalys such as I have detailed earlier whereby some passengers i.e. tour groups are allowed to prebook seats even when the system supposedly no longer allows choice for anybody (except those identified with special needs)...

On the other hand allowing blanket pre-booking of seats is also wrong and causes the problems as described by Bealine..

The answer...seats allocated on first come first served basis at the check-in, if like myself the passenger wants a window or aisle seat then they should arrive early at opening of check-in...it is when passengers do make this effort and discover all the good seats have gone the problem escalates!

[Behind the Curtain]

25F,

All the UK train companies (except Eurostar) use the same reservations system: unfortunately you can't pick the side of the coach... but a human at a station/telesales should be able to pick the coach you're put in, and finally, giving a preference of "forward" or "backward" should give you a table seat - all other seats are, to bring it a bit back on-topic, described as "airline".

Back in the air, would it not make sense for all groups to be sat together? My wish list for air travel includes getting a seat next to someone in my group even if they check in first (as they usually do!) They'd get the good seat, but at least I wouldn't be rows away. Perhaps other seats could be held for some number of minutes after the first one checks in?

bealine, I think normal pax (and it is the same for railways) will assume that whatever they can get away with is OK if the system doesn't stop them!

BtC.

[bealine]

MarkD wrote

as someone who works in the IT field, this sounds like bad system design, and as someone who regularly praises BA.com and is an EC member, it's not on to "blame" pax - just have the system on a trigger to be withdrawn once a flight reaches a given level.

It's true - the software could be changed to withdraw on-line facilities once a pre-set limit had been reached. However, instead of "blaming" the customer, we would then be guilty of inconveniencing the customer - equally bad form. Let's face it, we all want these services to continue, the only way they will is through mutual co-operation.

Incidentally, the Emergency Exit seats are not supposed to be available for on-line or telephone check-in so please ignore the remark made earlier. Sometimes glitches occur, such as an aircraft change, which release exit seats into the on-line plan by mistake - not a problem if the pap (singular of pax) is fit, but the DETR or CAA (or both) say we must have knowledge of the customer before allocating such a seat.

Globaliser writes

However, in my experience, I've never had anything other than a singleton pax turn up for the seat, probably because check-in (or the department dealing with allocation before check-in opens) have done a good job of making sure that the couples do have what adjacent seats there are.

I know it's not your intention, but what happens often is that single male gets 16B and his girlfriend gets 24E. If they're foreigners, you probably wouldn't even be aware they were separated. If their names are different (ie they're not yet married) the ground staff and cabin crew wouldn't even be aware they were separated and, as a check-in agent, I have no power to juggle other pax seats around to accommodate them. I'm glad you can now see the dilemna - I know you, and 99% of the pax I have hitherto branded as "selfish" are not being inconsiderate deliberately. Unfortunately, 3 row seating is an unhappy arrangement - perhaps someone could tell Boeing and Airbus!

:D

[BRUpax]

Bealine , I don't accept that we (Mrs BRUpax and I) are being "selfish" with our first come - first served attitude. We are not deliberately trying to split other pax up. What we are doing is taking advantage offered with an early booking to avoid the dreaded middle seat. Why if we booked early should we be penalised in favour of a late booking or check-in??? When Mrs B and I fly on industry tickets we (quite rightly) end up with what's left. When we pay we take what is available to us when booking.
By the way, as much as we enjoy each other's company, we don't talk across to each other and we have often travelled in seperate rows.

[Globaliser]

I know it's not your intention, but what happens often is that single male gets 16B and his girlfriend gets 24E. If they're foreigners, you probably wouldn't even be aware they were separated. If their names are different (ie they're not yet married) the ground staff and cabin crew wouldn't even be aware they were separated and, as a check-in agent, I have no power to juggle other pax seats around to accommodate them. I'm glad you can now see the dilemna - I know you, and 99% of the pax I have hitherto branded as "selfish" are not being inconsiderate deliberately. Unfortunately, 3 row seating is an unhappy arrangement - perhaps someone could tell Boeing and Airbus! I understand the problem, but I'm not so sure about the shortage of solutions.

On every occasion when a deliberate use of the window/aisle "trick" hasn't worked, I've chatted to the singleton pax who's turned up - all genuine singletons. Of course, if the trick works and the middle seat stays empty, it follows that no couple has been split up. Check-in ought to be able to identify most couples in advance, because most will be travelling on the same booking.

I've once been part of a group of three who had the benefit of a row of three all to ourselves. Until we were split up at the gate because a Gold Exec Club member wanted to canoodle with his wife. It was only EDI-LHR, and we had been so late that it was a miracle that we were accepted for the flight at all, that I thought that the argument wasn't worth it. But it was intensely irritating to have three good boarding passes (issued about 90 seconds earlier) taken away at the gate by an agent who had taken it on himself to do all this rearrangement manually.

And we've all seen cabin crew negotiating with other pax on board to swap seats to get couples together.

But I agree that if there is a growing problem we ought to be sensitive to it.

Obviously, sometimes airlines have no choice about how many seats in a row. But I'd understood that airlines picked 3-in-a-row seating where they can when they expect a higher proportion of singleton pax, to maximise the number of empty middle seats. 2-in-a-row where possible is better on routes (eg leisure) where you expect a higher proportion of couples.

Hence BA's 3-3-3 777s, compared to AA's 2-5-2. On the BA aircraft, if all pax are singletons, then nobody needs to sit next to anyone else until load exceeds 66%. On AA, if all pax are couples, nobody needs to sit in the dreaded middle seat until load exceeds 88%. And doesn't someone have a 3-4-2 layout in a 777, to minimise problems?

[PAXboy]

And all these years, when two of us have been travelling together (same surnames or not) (one on FFMs and the other not) we always took two together with the middle seat a given. We would swop turn and turn about as to who had the middle and accepted that it was pot luck if the aisle seat was free.

What fools we have been for not demanding more!

[Sharjah Night Shift]

If BA's computer can allocate the window seat with no window, next to the smelly and noisy toilet to my cheap ticket surely it could allocate adjacent seats to two tickets sold together.

[rsoman]

Boss Raptor
*****
The answer...seats allocated on first come first served basis at the check-in, if like myself the passenger wants a window or aisle seat then they should arrive early at opening of check-in...it is when passengers do make this effort and discover all the good seats have gone the problem escalates!
*****
This will not help much either for long haul transfers!
BA flights from Bombay for eg leave around 2130 the previous night GMT (and check in 4 hours earlier) and a lot of pax are for the early morning departures to US points the next day at Heathrow! Even if the pax cannot pre book, I do not think they would like to be allocated seates at the gate at LHR as this will only create un necessary delays and certain missed connections if flights are running late (or sitting in the tarmac at Heathrow waiting for a gate!).As a result many of the good seats will be taken even as early as the day before due to through check in.

Overall, I feel that pre allocating a certain amount of seats (and BAs system is very fair in that respect in that as Bealine mentions the really low yield pax are not alowed to block the seats) will help in people booking early to have a reasonable choice of seats.

I guess for BA, the worst hit will be the transatlantic and to a limited extent the intra european flights with regard to through check in pax getting the best seats , but the only alternative to that is pre book (and with seat maps for BA avaialble at all the CRS systems with the agents, it is not that difficult either!)

[bealine]

BruPax - Firstly, an apology to you and Mrs BruPax for my previous response. It was not my desire, or intention, to sound rude and, looking back at my reply, it does seem that way!

In the situation you describe, there is no problem......what you're doing, in effect, is treating yourselves as two single people for the duration of the flight. What does cause a problem however, is deliberately taking a window and aisle with the intention of sitting together if someone takes the middle seat! It is this that causes the separation of couples!

Sharjah Night Shift wrote
If BA's computer can allocate the window seat with no window, next to the smelly and noisy toilet to my cheap ticket surely it could allocate adjacent seats to two tickets sold together.

Yes indeed - the system will always default to giving two people seats together, providing they're available. What is happening, however, is that pax are then selecting the seat map and deliberately choosing the window and aisle combinations. (On 747-400 flights I have just been made aware, couples are now booking the two aisle seats in the centre four-seat section to try to have the row to themselves!)



:)

[Boss Raptor]

On long haul flights with connections the seats for all the flights are almost invariably allocated at the beginning/check-in of the first sector...in my experience anyway...

Unless your choice of carriers is such a mix and so seperate that you have to re-check in as no interline is available...which has to be your choice...

[knobbygb]

Can I confess to being someone who has tried this trick in the past (although not on BA) - 4 time to be precise - twice we had a row to ourselves, once we allowed the middle-seater to have the window, and once we were 're-seated' at check-in. This thread has made me think again. I'd always assumed that the worst case scenario was that we'd offer someone either the window or aisle. I hadn't thought about the possibility of splitting people up - thanks Bealine.

I used to have very little sympathy for people who were allocated middle seats - I always assumed they'd turned up late and got what they deserved. Again, a few good arguments here as to why that isn't always the case (although it often is!).

Bealine, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the current BA on-line check-in/reservation facility allow ANYBODY to pre-book seats, regardless of how or where they bought their ticket? I've pre-booked seats on-line before, weeks before travel on very cheap apex tickets which were bought via travel agents, other on-line agencies and even on Airmiles freebies. You simply have to type in the six letter booking ref. and you're away. This facility even allows me to get a seat up from in row one (domestic MAN-LHR) which, although in a single class cabin, would normall be reserved for 'Gold Card types'. Although I now have SOME sympathy for people who get split up, I can't help thinking that that's the price they pay for being less aware of the situation than I am.

I agree that the system shouldn't allow me to book seats A and C for a couple, but as long as it does, people will do this - you can't blame people for trying. Perhaps what is needed is a simple logic change in the programming, not the threat of complete withdrawls of pre-allocated seating. Don't tell the wife, but I now actually sometimes book seperated seats on different rows (1A and 36F, for example) on purpose, particularly on overnight long-hauls. I'm less likely to get nagged and moaned at all night by a stranger than by the wife (and it might be a rather good-looking stranger as well :D ). When she complains to me, I always blame the 'crappy seating systems the airlines use'. I wouldn't want to lose this facility, so please keep on-line pre-allocation available.

Globaliser, I believe it was some of the earlier MD-11's which had this 3-4-2 arrangement. I always thought this was an excellent idea - not sure why it didn't catch on. Perhaps the cabin crew on the 'heavy' side of the aircraft got fed up with doing more work ;) ) Now we have a child, I usually choose the aircraft (and thus airline) we fly with on seating arrangements. When travelling as a couple 2-5-2 or 2-4-2 is preferable, when with child 3-3-3 or 3-4-3.

[J-Class]

I believe KLM still has the 2-4-3 seating arrangement on some of its aircraft - but it makes life more difficult as the aisles cannot precisely match the location of the galleys.

This issue is not confined to BA. Earlier this year I flew HKG-JFK on a full CX flight in J class - a 17 hour journey - and the cabin crew asked me to swap my aisle seat, which I had pre-booked two weeks earlier, for a window seat so that a couple could sit together. As I am fairly weak-bladdered and the idea of being trapped at the window for 17 hours had zero appeal, I refused. I imagine the couple had turned up at the airport assuming that as business class passengers, they did not need to worry about their seating allocations. The result was that I had a very pissed off Hong Kong Chinese gentlemen sitting next to me for 17 hours, but c'est la vie!

As for couples reserving both aisles of a centre block of a 747 in the hope of gaining four seats to share, these people need their head examining. With so much of the world's airline fleet either downsized or sitting in the Arizona desert, I haven't been on a flight on any airline that was less than 90% full for months. I therefore make no assumption that there will be any free seats when I travel - and I'm usually right!

[Momo]

I am certainly with the software solution. Force Internet checkin seating of two people (only) under one booking code to be together, if, and only if, they want to choose the same side of the plane on the same row number. The "my wife prefers an aisle while I prefer a window" is easily solved that way, as they can do so, but not on the same side in the same row, avoiding the "conversation across the middle PAX" issue.

The aisle and window combination would of course still be available by phone or at physical check-in.

I don't know whether Sy***** supports your software as well as the hardware, but either they or the software vendor should be able to quote you for this easy rule.

The most common inconvenience I currently face is not this one. It is "no shows" with advance seat reservations taking all the aisles or windows available, leaving only middle seats available, until you are on board and find the adjacent seats empty. I suppose software can't really solve this. I personally cause some no-shows, as our agency (AMEX) often books crossed return tickets for us, as they can be cheaper than a single ticket, but cause no-shows for the coupons we throw in the bin.

Momo

[bealine]

Momo, quite right about "no shows" We've told our management time and time again that airlines need to simplify the fare structures - sensible fares, sensible fare differences between classes and a straightforward £100 administration fee for a no show. (Perhaps we should also make a charge for an empty seat between a travelling couple!)

Some of our country's so-called pop "superstars" manage to have a return Concorde booking for every day of the week - knowing full well they may not even travel at all! The trouble is, we carry out all the reservations work for them, and they end up getting 100% refund on an unused ticket! Crazy!

The trouble is, no airline wants to be the first to "deviate from the norm":rolleyes:

[PAXboy]

This is a reply about a point raised several days ago ... that of having seats 'blocked' for you by the check-in agent.

I was doing MUC ~ FRA ~ DTW (Munich to Detroit) return a couple of years ago with LH. It was a new 'thin' route and they had the A340 on it, I was in 'Y', I was a Silver card then.

The outbound was daylight, naturally and I took a window as I prefer. For the return, they said they even though the flight was not busy, they could not upgrade me. They offerred to put me in a window seat and block the centre section of the same row. The 340 in Y normally has 2-4-2 (if memory serves), so I accepted.

The flight was indeed very empty (the route bing only about two weeks old) so I had two seats by the window and the centre block empty and ready for me.

A backpacker had spotted his chance ... as we climbed out, before the seat belt signs went off, he slipped his belt and took up one of the block of four, snapping the belt in place.

As soon as the belt sign went out - he flipped up all the arm rests, wrapped himself in the four blankets and secured two belts around himself - over the blankets as per request. He then spent a very comfortable night. :mad:

[Crepello]

Ah, the joys of aviation...

The problem with the low-cost airlines is that you miss all this fun. But you do get boarding by number, the new Sport of Gentlemen...

And who wouldn't want to play? Gathering in a pack by checkin, eagerly waiting for your number, scorning the fools who try to board out of turn. Joining the melee on the airbridge, advancing past the weaker jackals. Squeezing onto the acft, climbing over the aisle-loiterers with abandon. Only then, planting your bosom on that window seat at the rear, can you admire your newfound bruises and reminisce on another sporting achievement.

Allocated seating? No thanks. :D

[814man]

Travelling by charter airline recently (Excel to Egypt) I was offered the facility of paying £16 to pre reserve seats. As it was a family holiday with 2 young children somewhat against my better judgement I paid up in advance to allow us all to sit in a line (767 so 3 plus 1 across aisle). At check-in I was then somewhat annoyed to find we were allocated in 3 adjacent rows!! The small print says the £16 only guarantees seats "together", a definition which is left to the discretion of the check in staff. After some discussion with staff we were allocated 2 x 2 seats together and I wasted £16.
Is this simply a novel way to get more cash from pax?

[bealine]

On the face of it, £16 doesn't seem a bad idea. It pays towards to cost of some lonely soul toiling through the night shift allocating seats.........assuming that's what happens.

However, from your experience, it sounds like the word "together" had a very lose definition.........after all, one family all being on the same aircraft could be construed as "together" and I feel someone like "Which" should get themselves involved in order to ensure the word "together" gets a proper definition.

In this "holiday" context, I would take it to mean either the 3 + 1 seating you describe, or 2 + 2 (adjacent aisles) - certainly all the family in easy communicating distance! Certainly if I spoke to one of our customers on the phone and he/she requested "together" seating, that is exactly what I would visualise.


Hope you enjoyed your holiday though!;)

[slim_slag]

£16 is just another example of how the poor consumers in rip off Britain are being nickle and dimed to death. You pay a premium for your 087x phone call to give the company business, you pay a booking fee to a company which has as its major business activity booking tickets and so such fees should be part of the fixed costs and not an additional line item on the invoice, you pay a surcharge on your credit card to give the company business, and now you pay in advance for a service which isn't even guaranteed, and which should be expected to be provided for a family travelling together - just because people should be nice to each other. Yeh I know it's a tough market out there and companies need to make money, but these extra charges leave a nasty taste in the mouth, and frankly if things are that bad then some need to go out of business to give a decent profit to the survivors.

As for the BA website and getting a seat assigned in advance. This service on the BA website is about the only thing that positively differentiates BA from it's competitors if you are one of the economy class scum er, sorry 'Low Yield Pax' :D It would be a shame to see this feature removed from those low yield pax who may fly 100k miles per year, but never make it to executive club silver tier. A hearty slap on the back for those people who use it to their advantage and try to make what has become a steadily more uncomfortable long haul experience a bit more bearable.

[814man]

Thanks for the replies to my post. I agree that £16 is not much in the overall budget of a holiday however I still believe that it is a bit much for a service that by simply following the good practice of turning up in good time and speaking politely to the staff I would get anyway.
I was mostly annoyed at the way the service was pressured onto my wife by our travel agent who stated that if we didn’t pay we could “find ourselves sat separately anywhere around the aircraft”. Despite my protestations Mrs 814 decided that we needed the reassurance of this service so we paid up.
On a related item I am aware that many charter passengers frequently turn up late for check-in. If they have pre booked seats then I would expect that this will become even more of a problem in the future.
Finally I had an excellent holiday thank you. The diving in Sharm El Sheikh was as good as any I’ve seen and Mrs 814 and the kids enjoyed the hotel and resort too.

[rsoman]

There are still quite a few airlines who do allow advance reservation of specific seats many upto 3 months in advance even for economy class. The problem is that most people are not aware of this.
In my part of the world, the internet booking rage hasnt yet caught on and most of the bookings are still through the travel agents who use one or other of the Computer Reservation Systems to make the bookings. A lot of airlines do give the seat map facilty where the seat map along with the available seats show up and agents can confirm the seats instantly. While a few airlines like Singapore Airlines restrict this facilty to upper class passengers, there are many airlines including many of the american carriers, LH etc which allow for even very low economy fares. During my recent trip from Trivandrum (India) to Heathrow on Qatar Airways via Doha, I was able to resere choice of the window seats avaialble on both sectors about two weeks back through the travel agent and was indeed issued with a boarding pass for the two sectors with the seats I had pre reserved on check in at Trivandrum. I was travelling on a dirt cheap economy fare.
Unfortunately most passengers and quite a lot of travel agents are not aware of the same.Whichever airline you are travelling it pays to check whether the facilty is avaialbe and in a lot of cases you will be able to succesfully prebook without extra charge.

Also a number of airlines allow you to check your reservation directly against an airline website on input of ther airline reservation record locator (www.checkmytrip.com -for LH/AF and other airlines using Amadeus) and you will be able to see the entire details of your itinerary plus many of the seat maps also.

Cheers
RSO

[jockmcstrap]

ERM


Why dont you tell Mr & Mrs Cheapo to buy a PC then they can check-in at home also...............problem solved!!!!