No Rosters at Virgin

[Norma Spartz]

22nd October and still no Rosters for next month. Unacceptable for the National Flag Carrier? Our Ops manual says that it should be produced 15 days before start of the rostered month. Nearly every roster produced since 9/11 has been late - how are other longhaul operators doing?

On a related subject, Virgin have permanently withdrawn the confirmed companions ticket for people rostered to fly over Xmas/New Year. What happens in your Company if you are rostered to fly over this period?

[dickyflys]

Another two of many more reasons to spread the word that things aren't greener on the Virgin Atlantic side of the fence. Attend an interview, but you have been warned!

[411A]

What happens you ask, Norma?
The short answer is, operate your flights, just like everyone else.
If you want a 9-5 job, look elsewhere other than the airline industry.
Unsocialable hours, weekends, holidays...yep, has always been that way.:rolleyes:

[Hand Solo]

Yes, that would be totally unacceptable for the national flag carrier. Which is why our rosters were out on the stroke of 1800Z, 15th October, just like they were supposed to be!:p

[Flexable]

I am posting this reply for information only not passing judgement.
At AC pilots blocs (Rosters) are available on average 4 days before the new months. We use computer bidding.
This provide flexibility to marketing to adjust for a/c types.
Our F/A are on canned blocs and get their blocs about 10 days before new month but are qualified on all types.

[dickyflys]

411A, how do you suggest we 'just do our jobs' when the whole point of the thread is that we don't know when to turn up to 'just do our jobs'?

I am not married to my job and have no intention of camping outside the Queens building waiting for Virgin to work out when they need us!

On the subject of 'Britain's flag carrier' sprayed down the side, I have no idea how Virgin have got away with that, although the aeroplanes are so dirty these days it is difficult to see it anyway!

[INLAK]

A I write this, I know my roster up until next Sunday , the 3rd November. This Friday I will get my roster for the next 7 days. This is the same for all our pilots, even the trans-atlantic operations., and we are a National Flag Carrier!!

[lurkio]

Simple answer. If the part A says 15 days, presumably the scheduling agreement says 15 days, and they haven't given a good reason for it being late, as of now they obviously don't need you for the first 7 days therefore 7 days off. If they subsequently roster you to fly a 4 day trip then that's 4 day off payments please.

As if....

[411A]

dickyflys....and Big Kahuna Burger,

In todays very difficult business environment, folks (especially cabin crew) just have to "go with the flow".
Rosters are NOT provided for you to be able to plan your "social agenda"...so don't get so agitated because it is a few days late.

OR, if you have a better idea, join the marketing department and see how REAL folks work for the benefit of all....:rolleyes: ;)

[411A]

How's about....PPRuNe Provocateur, Scooby Doo? Send the check along for me now, thanks.

Rosters.

Have worked for three large state carriers over the last 30+ years, and the two that had assigned rosters (with requested days off/flights) were issued 7 days prior to the end of the month, sometimes less, if a lot of extra flights during holidays, Hadj, etc.

The one that had line bidding, the roster was available 4 days prior to the end of the month, never sooner.

Many carriers are trying to scrape enough together to pay the salaries in these difficult times, never mind rosters fifteen days in advance.
Grow up guys/gals, it's not the end of the world if your flight schedule is a few days late.
'Course, you could always go to the roster office and lend a hand if it makes you feel better...:)

Wake up and see the bigger picture.;)

[dickyflys]

Oh I see, 411A is just a wind up agent. I'm with it now.

Obviously one of these office people that think we go off on holiday each week with all of our mates and have a great time leaving them to work so hard every day surfing the Internet and getting bitter and jealous that they aren't off flying.

Virgin isn't a state carrier dragged down by high costs, it doesn't have Hadj flights and it has no seasonal changes. The same flights go every day of the year. It DOES say we will have a roster by a set time and this hasn't happened, or even been explained, and that is the point here.

I can't think of anything worse than spending a day in the office and becoming as bitter as you, 411A.

We still don't have the rosters, either!

[411A]

dickyflys,

Ah, poor guy (gal)...still disappointed I see.
Well, there is only one sure cure...quit and find another job, perhaps then the airline can hire someone who will be interested in the success of the company.
Having spent a long time in the LH seat (still there actually, in addition to the office) I find that many flight crew simply do NOT have any idea of what it takes to make an aircarrier function properly.
Marketing folks to plan the sales/routes.
Agents to sell the tickets.
Mechanics/engineers to keep the aircraft servicable.
And yes, pilots to fly the bus and cabin crew to serve the pax.
Not to mention, the financial department to pay your salary on time...;)
Countless others as well.

Which department would you like to eliminate?

Let me guess...the rostering department, because they cannot meet your perceived social agenda...:rolleyes:

[Amazon man]

If an airline has a regular schedule I really dont see why that airline cannot get a roster produced in plenty of time for the following month, why should a roster produced in plenty of time have any cost implications for a company as opposed to a roster produced at the last minute, it appears to me that it has more to do with a badly organised rostering department.

Whatever 411 thinks, a company does have a responsibility towards its aircrew employees to provide some sort of stable work pattern.

A roster produced in plenty of time so one can plan ones life outside aviation is very important especially those with families, it can make the difference between happy employees with a good home life and miserable divorced ones without one.

In the main I enjoy my aviation career but I am entitled to a life outside of it. Our company is obviously very good compared to others, we have a roster produced on the 10th of each month for the four weeks ahead with new agreements in place to stop it being altered at short notice, if it is then we can be compensated for the changes

[ILUV2FLY]

Happy to confirm that my 4 week roster to fri 15 nov was issued
as usual last friday. Apart from 3 s/b days I know exactly what Im
doing for next 4 weeks. Now wheres all the ryan-beaters? Maybe
there waiting for next weeks rosters? Life''s no too bad in low fares land after all.Seems like mo money, pay increasd, options
and better rosters.

[dickyflys]

I agree, let's ignore 'it'! I feel so enlightened by him, I wish I could have had many years in the LH seat than my 17, then I would know that an airline has ticket agents and engineers he mentions. It must be because he spends his time hanging around the office as well. How sad. Enough said now eh?

Wouldn't it be awful to be like that?

[Banzai Chap]

Virgin Rosters are tied into the performance of
Brighton and Hove Footy Club (that's soccer to 411)the local team. At the moment they are not doing too well, and it will only get worse when the Palace whooop them on Saturday

Come on you Eagles

Anjin

[Tonic Please]

I'm not a common replier to this particular forum, as it is a bit above me with political posts, and airline specific operations...But I still try to understand it. However, I would like to add the following, starting with 411A :

I feel you are abusing PPRuNe for individual "attacks" against peoples opinions etc, and as somebody quite correctly said: Under your name it says you should get a PPRuNe name as you have posted more than 1500. This is very impressive, but if PPRuNe meant a lot to you, and you gave an interest into the growth and popularity of this fantastic website, you would spare some dollars to get a name and help the PPRuNe fund! :rolleyes: I think you are hypocritical as you accuse others of not taking an interest into the growth etc of their company, yet you do not show an interest into this place which you very commonly visit. :rolleyes:

And to all...I'm intersted in why such a company as Virgin have not made rotors for you. Is it a pilots place to complain about this? It has been posted, but has anything been directed, complaint or query wise, to the people who compose the rotors??

Just curious :)

Smooth skies all :D

[shrek]

In response to your comments directed at 'Tonic Please', if you had taken the time to read his comments, the sentences all ended with a question mark. I don't think he is passing judgement.

He is quite obviously someone outside of aviation who was merely asking a question.

WIND YOUR NECK IN

P.S
I'm also not involved in aviation, any wise words of wisdom for me too??? (Questiion mark)

[GlueBall]

Why don't you have a chat with the baloonist about your naughty rostering problem, eh?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Shrek - I have wise words of wisdom for you - PLEASE SHOVE OFF!

This forum is for professional pilots, aircraft engineers, air trafficers and the like. If you do not fall broadly into these categories then it is the height of ill manners tot come on here in a rude and abusive manner telling professional pilots what they should or should not say. This forum enables informed members of the aviation community to discuss issues that are important to them. You clearly are not part of that community. If you want to read into this forum and learn something then so much the better, otherwise go elsewhere - please!

[Mowgli]

Have any of you RB guys heard from your management as to why your rosters are late?

We used to have this problem, with rosters coming late and not knowing when they would arrive - but at least we used to get an explanation and a promise that a better system would be put in place - and it has! Our rosters arrive mid month and this is consistently so, even though our company is in troubled waters.

This proves that rosters can be produced even when a company is having a hard time. It is easy to hide behind economic climate/ 11Sep type reasons for not producing rosters on time. It must take effort and a good "system" to achieve it, but it is important. People like 411 miss the point - everyone needs to pull harder in todays climate - we're all feeling the pinch - but there's no excuse for late rosters - or if there is then post it here so we can see it.

[shrek]

To Norman Stanley Fletcher

'A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS'

Please check your 'Private e.mails'

[stormin norman]

The question of rosters is always a tricky one Our 'national flag carrier' does produce rosters on time by a dedicated skilled and somewhat underpaid workforce whereas the the Vs rosters appear to be produced by 'Air Atlanta?'And judging by easys recent problems some bloke with a fag packet in some orange shed luton.

[Fly747]

Surely the point here is that an airline that cares about its crews produces the roster on time and tries to stick to it once published. The amount of friction caused by poor rostering is totally counter productive.

[stormin norman]

well said fly 747

[Fly_Right]

What an interesting thread. Whilst the easyJet morale thread has run and run I know what my days off are going to be up until 31 Mar 2003 (apart from the Christmas Holiday period).

Before I get shot down let me say that the 6 on "3" off does make for some hard rosters and the company can use the first or third days as "rest days" working us into the first or on early after the third. Having said that, I can plan 2 evenings and 2 mornings each free period for the next 5 months. It may not be perfect but it's better than any other system I've been in during 21 years in this game.

It also amazes me that no mention has been made on these pages of the ej Airbus deal. What a bold move. Back to modern efficient offices.

Now if we can just get the pay deal right................

[Land ASAP]

Can't see what the fuss is all about with 411A. Every time he writes something it says "This person is on your ignore list. Click here to read their comments"

Can I be bothered? Damn right I can't. A scary man in need of a life whom I hope gets to the psychiatric ward before it leads to something serious. If you're reading this 411A...

Go watch "A Beautiful Mind"

[411A]

And then we have Luthansa...increasing service, ordering more aircraft and, according to a radio program in PHX just today, planning to HIRE four thousand additional personnal including 200 pilots next year.

The question remains...what do LH do "right" that eludes so many others?

Answers on a postcard, please.

(HINT: proper management):D :D

NB. No Brits involved:rolleyes:

[Silver Tongued Cavalier]

411A,

Answers here for you.

LH is currently making most if not all of its profits through it's highly successful , massive LH Technik operation, according to my Pal at LH.

Also it hasn't (yet!) been hammered by the likes of Ryannair and Easyjet which Airlines like BA and Aer Lingus have had to react to.

LH will be in for a bit of a rough ride to come me thinks, when the world falls out of its arse when all these Low cost start ups start scrapping!!!

One to watch! :p