View Full Version : Giant smoke ring over the North Sea
Pax Vobiscum
17th Oct 2002, 10:41
Flying over the German Bight at 41,000 ft I noticed an annular cloud formation. It formed a complete circle of varying thickness and I guesstimate its size as a couple of kilometers in radius.
There were other scattered clouds around. Could this be natural? If artificial, what could cause it?
tom775257
17th Oct 2002, 11:41
Hi,
New scientist had this question a few weeks back in the q&a section. One suggestion was while over the sea, the cloud could be formed by a large gas release from the sea floor, possibly being ignited through natural or artificial means if my memory serves. There was another suggestion that it could be a lenticular cloud viewed from an odd angle, although I guess you wouldn’t be seeing lenticular clouds over the sea?
Just a guess but possibly AWACS contrail or tanker aircraft, have seen similar things myself over the North Sea and Scotland, its quite difficult to judge the diameters though.
CRX
Flat-Spot
17th Oct 2002, 21:39
Tom775257, could you please advz me of the New Scientists subscription address. I love the mag, used to read it at school, got some great stuff in it.
Thanks (in advance).
F-S
Xacto
17th Oct 2002, 23:34
As CRX suggests this could be an AWACS contrail or possibly a Von Karmen Vortex. Did it look anything like these?
AWACS (http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/gif/lovely/awacs70.jpg)
Von Karmen Vortex (http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/debrief/old/STS100/STS100-710-182.htm)
Regards,
Xacto.
Notso Fantastic
18th Oct 2002, 23:40
Amazing pictures.
tom775257
19th Oct 2002, 12:55
Flat-spot: Here is the web address:
http://www.newscientist.com They have a subscription link.
I am starting to feel like a walking advertisement for them, I started another thread re: an article in New Scientist. ;) Sorry moderators...
On a side note, here is a link to some very cool looking cloud rings from Mt. Etna... http://www.geo.aau.dk/palstrat/tom/santorini_homepage/bilder/smokerings.htm :)
Flat-Spot
20th Oct 2002, 07:56
Tom,
Thanks for the address. Now I've got something else to read on a layover.
Cheers,
F-S
Pax Vobiscum
23rd Oct 2002, 16:03
Thanks everyone - I think the AWACS suggestion (and the cool pic) looks like what I saw.
My only doubt is that I understand that contrails only form at altitudes over 30,000 ft, but I would guess the height of the cloud I saw at less than 20,000 ft (no observable parallax with the ground).
Johnny F@rt Pants
24th Oct 2002, 15:28
Didn't know I'd passed thet way lately:D :D
XV208 SNOOPY
24th Oct 2002, 16:12
Pax,
Contrails can form at many heights, not just above FL300. It depends upon a combination of air temperature, humidity and the type of engines you have.
It was one of the first jobs of the Met Research Flight when it was set up in 1942, and we are still finding out new things to this day about their formation/persistance.
Our German colleagues at DLR have probably done the most recent work on the subject.
The photo in New Scientist is an old one, and it was thought originaly that we (Snoopy) was the cause. But Not Guilty!