Keeping PPL alive with an NPPL?

[Land After]

My class 2 medical is due soon for my JAA PPL & I’m approaching the ECG zone. As I don’t see myself doing too much flying in the next four/five years due to family and work pressure, I wondered if I could save a few pounds by keeping my JAA PPL by running it in parallel with an NPPL.

If I flew the 12 hours every two years and did my required lesson on an NPPL & cheap medical, would it keep my JAA PPL alive for the time when I have the time and money to fly more and get an IMC? Could I then pay through the nose for another class 2 medical and fly solo again on my JAA PPL? I know my night qualification wouldn’t be available on the NPPL, but it’s a restriction I’d be prepared to live with.

Any thoughts?

[Evo]

I half remember Irv covering this recently in Flyer - hopefully he will pass this way before too long and give a proper answer, but I think it's yes...

[StrateandLevel]

A number of people have come up with this idea. You don't really need to do the 12 hours, just a biennial test with a JAA examiner and you can be signed up for another two years.

[Irv]

S-a-L: " just a biennial test with a JAA examiner "
The point is you don't even have to bother to do the test with the examiner (in this scenario). I think he original idea came from someone in their 50s who flew a lot (day VFR, uk only) and was hoping to retire to the continent in a few years time. He didn't like paying £1xx every year for a JAA medical when an NPPL one would be almost free in comparison and last 5 years. Idea was:
You put your JAA flying into hibernation for 'x' years and fly on your NPPL, keeping it valid. However, the JAA revalidation process which they are so keen to follow to the letter does not require a JAA medical. You only need the medical if you want to USE the licence. So every two years you dig out your JAA PPL and get the SEP rating signed up on the basis of your NPPL flight log (obviously you'd need to exceed the NPPL minimum P1 hours to do this in the 2nd year, but you'd only bother to do this if you were doing the flying anyway).
At no time are you USING your JAA licence (as you don't have a medical). Years later, when you retire to Spain or France, you just get a JAA medical and you are instantly legal the moment you get a JAA medical, without any flight test, fuss or extra paperwork.

It's true that if you were NOT doing the required hours anyway, it might be better to let the JAA side lapse and have a test to renew it when you finally wanted it back, but if you've got the logged hours anyway, a JAA revalidation signature costs nothing. (well I don't charge, not sure about others!)

[BEagle]

When someone asks me to revalidate their SEP Class Rating by experience, I expect them to present their licence, logbook and form LPC SPA.

If the licence does not contain a valid JAR Class 1 or 2 medical, then I will not sign the Rating Validity Page in their licence, nor the LPC SPA.

I would have thought that it was obvious; no current JAR medical certificate at the time that revalidation is sought means no valid licence - and that means that the rating cannot be revalidated, it has to be renewed. By test. For which I charge.....

[tacpot]

It may be an obvious point, but when money comes into the equation people will tend to apply the letter of the law, if it suits them to do so. Does the CAA ask that instructors check for a valid JAA medical when signing LPC SPA?

I haven't seen any description of the JAA revalidation process that states a valid medical must be held at the time of revalidation. I think Irv has it correct, and that you might be withholding your signature unnecessarily BEagle. Although I accept your point that it is a resonable check for you to make, I think the JAA/CAA people responsible for drafting the wording of the revalidation process did not forsee the introduction of a NPPL, and hence did not forsee that a lower medical standard might allow someone to do the necessary flying to revalidate their JAR license!

Perhaps the CAA will issue guidance, or perhaps it already in LASORS.

[Land After]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I think Irv relfects my understanding - you only need the medical to exercise the licence privileges- the licence is valid without the medical. If your medical lapses for a few weeks, perhaps by putting off a renewal, the license is still valid and does not lapse.

I'll watch for any more comments and then maybe run it by the CAA :eek:

[BEagle]

For a licence to be valid, the holder must have a current medical certificate appropriate to the type of licence (which means a JAR medical certificate for a JAR-FCL licence - i.e Class 2 for a PPL(A)) and a valid aircraft rating.

I was advised by the CAA that I should make sure that anyone applying to revalidate their rating held such a current medical certificate.

[Irv]

I may be wrong, but I doubt that the ANO would say the licence itself is not valid, it's much more likely to talk about the pilot not exercising due privileges or some similar phrase, which is different. I'll take a look later.

If the CAA did come out requiring a medical for a revalidation by experience, they might be open to a charge of double standards. They certainly apply the regulations to the letter when they insisted that a 'by experience' revalidation must be signed up before the expiry date or a test is required, even if the flying parts have been done. (Mind you they only explained that clearly and unambiguously to the examiners who are the ones who would benefit financially from any PPL failing that final action - ie: from a subsequent test, for which examiners charge!)

If we assume the guys round the JAA table forgot to put 'valid medical' in the revalidation requrements list or on the form, what else are we to assume they forgot to put in? Any good suggestions out there? :D

If there isn't a definite requirement for a medical at signature time for revalidation by experience,I can't see a problem with it -it's none of my business if the pilot has a two year period but doesn't want to fly for part of that. As the JAA seem to encourage PPLs to only fly every 2nd year, perhaps the ones that do so should only pay for a medical every 2nd year! ;)

[nonradio]

BEagle: You wouldn't sign the bit of paper without a valid medical, but would you conduct an LPC without a medical? Or no medical, no fly let alone signature?

[Land After]

Validity: This licence is to be reissued not later than.....

The privileges of the licence shall be exercised only if the holder has a valid medical certificate for the required privilege.

By the application of JAR-FCL.... [Can fly in any JAA state. Must carry photo ID]

The privileges of this licence may be exercised at night [Most expensive sentence I've ever paid for!!]



It looks to me as there's no need to keep the medical up. I think this slipped through as they weren't expecting an NPPL and a backdoor route to currency. I wonder now if the same principle would apply to someone who's living in the US at present and is flying hours there on an FAA licence with an FAA medical?

However, there may be a problem getting the licence reissued without a medical. As the JAA licences haven't been out for five years yet, I doubt anyone has seen the renewal form/requirements.