Canadian Air Force

[Alfie Stenloop]

Heard a rumour a while back that the CAF are struggling to retain pilots. Is there any truth in the rumour?

I am presently serving with the British Forces as a pilot having flown both rotary and multi-engine fixed wing. I presently have 2500hrs and am very interested in transfering across.

Any info or suggestions (be they helpful!) would be appreciated.

Thanks!! :cool:

[Panama Jack]

Don't know, but step #1 is to become a Canadian Citizen to join the Canadian Forces.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Or better still become a Quebec citizen.:D :D

[Canuck Pilot]

Have you thought about going doing a exchange program with the RCAF initially to see if you prefer living and working in Canada compared with the UK? I am not in the military but have been trying extremely hard to get in throughout the past year and have seen photos and read articles where RAF crew are members of fighter and maritime partrol squadrons. You may want to check out Canadianaviation.com and ask some questions on the military forum their. Good Luck!

[prang one]

I am ex-RAF and moved over here shortly after PVRing.
I had the same thoughts as yourself.But my intention was to become a civi pilot and if it did not work out join up with the RCAF.

As above you will need to become a Citizen.You will have to be "landed" here for I beleave 3 years before you can get that status.

From what I have seen and the people I have spoken with the RCAF is in a far worse mess than the RAF. They do have a pilot retention problem but for very good reasons.

Personaly the thing that capped it for me was that I would have to become fluent in Frog before getting back in the seat.Visions of my school french master are far worse than Cranditz.

Outside of that its bloody great over here.Ref my other posts on the subject of Civi flying here.

good luck

[Tintin]

what a clown...yes yes we still heve those moron

shame

[saudipc-9]

Yes I believe that there still is a problem which is only going to get worse once all the guys who signed on for the extra five year bonus leave in 2003-2004.
Learning to "parlez le lingo en francais" is required if you want to get promoted to above Major. It is a fact as well as a pain in the arse that this will get you higher marks on you PER regardless if you are the worst officer or pilot in the Forces!:mad:
However, having said that I did look at getting back in a while back. I talked to a recruiting office who told me that despite having nearly 4000hrs of which 1300 are instructor, I would have to go through the entire recruiting process again!!!!! The RAAF has this sorted out and all you need to do is go for a medical and your back in within a month or so.
Canada---- six months if your lucky!!!!!
The CF cannot keep guys in and try damn hard to keep others out.:mad:

[mkeelan]

hey saudi

what do you mean by 'canada - 6 months if your lucky'???

are you trying to say all the military boys are gonna leave and come steal all the civil jobs???

[saudipc-9]

What I mean is that from showing up in the recruiting office to getting back into the Air Force will take six months or more--if your lucky.
Now your other point, why would the military guys be "Stealing" civilian jobs? If the jobs are there then anyone can get them and if they have left the military then they are civilians and not stealing anything!

[mkeelan]

ok, stealing was the wrong word. i just read in another board (canadianaviaiton.com) that in 2003 a lot of CF guys will be leaving the military and will want jobs with AC and jazz. this guy was suggesting that all the rest of the pilots better get a job soon or we will be out of luck, and also said that if we have a job don't plan on moving up cause all the CF guys (with heavy, multli, turbine and jet time) will be taking the good jobs. of course CF are more than qualified, and wouldn't be 'stealing jobs', just makes it tougher in an already bad situation in canada.

[saudipc-9]

Mkeelan,
Your right, times are tough especially when qualified pilots flood the market.
Hopefully the situation we find ourselves in will change and there will be jobs for everyone.
Fly safe:p

[HeloTeacher]

Lets be realistic about how many pilots we are talking about. Some time ago when I was still in the CF, there were only 1300 pilots empoyed on all types at all rank and experience levels. It is less now. Dumping even a relatively large percentage into the civil market will only be a minor burble in the waters.

Lots of these guys are helo drivers, some fighter guys. The airlines will still be doing what they always do. If that's what floats your boat.

[ipanema]

I've been around a while, and I can tell you the airlines in the US went through a long stage of preferring military experience. Then they found that the military guys did not have the wider training of civilian pilots, were not accustomed to the amount of flying (military guys may fly sophisticated machines, but hardly do they fly very much, especially now that the budgets are threadbare), and in many cases they did not give a damn about the comfort of their paying passengers.

The result is that the halo above military pilots heads became somewhat tarnished and some airlines actually went the other way - military experience became a minus, not a plus.

Of course, airlines in Canada now are run by different people with different objectives, and so far as I can see in most cases pilots do not get jobs without vast outlays of money and time, Membership (or at the very least least an influential family member) in the Old Boys Club and/or a great deal of brown-nosing.

Pilots in Canada also do not seem to get anywhere either without type ratings and current PPCs, things that are getting more expensive by the minute.

If anyone here thinks that someone - citizen or not - is going to find it a shoo-in to find a pilot job in Canada any time in the next five to ten years, I know of some "water-front" property in Florida and a "hardly-used" bridge in Hoboken I can sell you - cheap!!

[saudipc-9]

ipanema,
Mmmm an interesting post but absolutely inaccurate in a number of area's. I too have been around a while and let me enlighten you to a few facts.
Since 1978-1999 the number of pilots with Military experience being hired with major US carriers has been on average about 70% and without about 30%. The most was in 1993 when 92.9% were ex-military. I believe the fluctuations have more to do with available pilots than they do preference.
Then they found that the military guys did not have the wider training of civilian pilots
What an absolute load of rubbish!!! I will take nothing away from a civilian pilot. Many I know are very good and professional. However, very few have flown aerobatics, flown tactical navigation at low level, flown close formation, flown SAR etc etc etc...
Yes you are right military pilot do not get to fly as much as there civilian counterparts. There is a lot of preparation required before most military missions. A fighter sortie could mean 4-5 hours of prep and 2-3 hours of debrief. This is why the airlines recoginze this fact and give them more credit for the hours. Quality vs Quantity
and in many cases they did not give a damn about the comfort of their paying passengers.
What a load of Cr@P!!! Where did you get the info for that statement? Personel bias I suspect!
I undertand if you are frustrated with the job situation right now, we all are. Posting stuff like that isn't going to get you a job!

[777AV8R]

...You mean we do have an airforce?

[prang one]

Saudi

I could not have but it better !
I am with you 100%

Unfortunatly there are pilots with these views about ex-mil chaps and have often been a real pain in my behind.But fortunatly they are few in numbers and will always be just that behind.

[Rollingthunder]

Yes we do, with a long and proud history.

These days massive cash infusions are needed and not forthcoming. 30%+ of CF-18s unserviceable at any one time - a big helicopter problem that seems to be reaching the decade mark of incompetant politicial meddling and poor decision making. Current proposed replacement apparently not mission suitable and still a long way off. This all if you believe the media of course.

[bearcat88]

Like many of us ex-CF types I had intended on making it a long and fruitful career but the lack of government support and a public that new little of the circumstances of our mission(s) finally got the better of me and I left for a paycheck. Probably better as it opened up a cockpit for a someone else but a sad moment none-the-less. Too bad there are a few folks out there who think we had it all gold and glory and then left to take their jobs away. Everybody came from somewhere and the sum of those parts are what makes for some of the best flightdecks in the world. Keep it in mind.
88

[saudipc-9]

You are all quite right. It is the lack of government and public support, which becomes too much after a while. The CF is a great place to spend a few years, but as a career, I don't think that it has much to offer.
After Major it becomes too political and you have to sell out your troops to make your political masters happy. I once overheard a General at a mess dinner say he was going to retire because he was tired of lying to the people under his command.
What does that say about the CF??????:(

[wde]

Hello all...

I have 13 yrs of CF experience, with a degree, an operational tour, and a stint instructing. I have been out for over a decade and recently applied to reenter. It has been 9 months since I started the process to re-enrol and it has been a drag. The process seems to be more involved that if i was 19 and fresh out of high school.

The CF is hurting for qualified drivers, especially helos, yet the process to re-enrol is brutal. I agree that there will be an exodus of pilots in the next 18 months but those who are thinking about leaving are crazy. The Cdn helo industry is stagnant, starting salaries and less than 50 K pa and a 10 yr Captain rank pilot is now making > $85 K pa plus vacation plus pension etc.

I don't know why these pilots want to leave,the industry has just as many @$$holes running the show, the wages suck, the work conditions can be horrendous and pilots have no more say in how money is spent or how a job is completed than they currently have in the CF.

If I get back 'in", I could be a flight instructor, making 84 K pa, working M-F, 8-4, with 5 weeks vacation, and a significant pension at the end of it all. Where can we make that in the industry????

My $.0.02

[saudipc-9]

wde,
Just a guess here, but I think most guys who leave the CF are from the fixed wing world. Certainly that was the reason when I was in Moose Jaw the Big 2 was a popular posting for rotorheads to get some fixed wing time.
I agree with you that the process to get back in is absolutely retarded. You could get in faster to the RAAF than you can the Air Force in Canada.
There is, I think, alot of jealousy involved when you try to get back in. You after all are not a "Team Player" for having left the CF for what you thought was a better life:rolleyes: Or at least that is the attitude of some people.
Best of luck getting back "in".