Local Training on FAA Instructors Rating?

[VORTIME]

Hi -

If I obtain a FAA CPL/IR + Instructors rating, can I give FAA PPL instruction to members of my local club that has aircraft on G-reg based this side of the atlantic?

VT

[GoneWest]

Yes - but why go to the expense and hassle of getting FAA qualifications - you can do it with a JAA or other ICAO instructor rating (or are you saying you don't have ANY instructor qualifications at all?).

[VORTIME]

Corrected, I don't have an instructors rating yet.

[GoneWest]

Then the answer to your question is shorter - "Yes". :)

[VORTIME]

Do I need some sort of FBO or Training Certificate for the club in order to allow me teach students to the FAA sylabus in their aircraft?

Surely I can't just the the rating, hey Joe - wanna train to be a pilot? Ok...

[GoneWest]

Not aware of any such requirement - I'll ask in the office......and get back to you.

[slim_slag]

Do I need some sort of FBO or Training Certificate for the club in order to allow me teach students to the FAA sylabus in their aircraft?

There are two training routes to an FAA rating, via Part 61 (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr61_00.html) of the FARS (or 14 CFR) and Part 141 (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr141_00.html).

For part 61, there is no syllabus as such. You turn up and receive instruction as the CFI sees fit. For part 141 training there is a syllabus, and you have to follow it. The FBO has to be approved by the FAA to provide part 141 training, and if you go to a Part 141 approved training establishment they will have a certificate on the wall saying so.

You take the same exam/oral/checkride for both Part 61 and 141, and the certificate is the same. Being more structured, Part 141 provides a quicker route to the rating, though in practice there is not much difference at PPL level.

So do I get the impression you are looking at teaching FAA students in the UK to build hours? Ask yourself..

Why would anybody want to get an FAA rating in the UK when it's so much easier, cheaper and relevant to do this in the States? How are you going to sign the student off to solo in UK airspace when you don't have a UK authority (instructor's ticket) to do so? Where are you going to find an FAA examiner in the UK? What do you think is going to happen with this new security and background checking move? It wouldn't surprise me if all training for FAA ratings will soon have to be provided in the US by approved establishments.

Good luck

[VORTIME]

Many thanks for your reply. The problem is that it's not economically viable to training under the JAA to offer volunteer instruction in the local club. I suppose I could explain myself a little better:

1) I'd like to get the rating in the US.
2) Can I authorise solo flights with the FI rating over here?
3) Background checks should be fine, can't remember any bank hold ups...
4) I know a few local FAA examiners, can they carry out the skills test here?

Your point about the training in the 51 states is quite valid - unfortunetly.

Thanks
VT

[bookworm]

ANO Art 21(4)(a) says:


a) For the purposes of this Part of this Order ... a licence granted either under the law of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom ..., shall..., be deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order but does not entitle the holder:

(i) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of public transport or aerial work or on any flight in respect of which he receives remuneration for his services as a member of the flight crew; or

(ii) in the case of a pilot's licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying.


That suggests to me that a non-JAA licence/rating doesn't permit you to give instruction in a G-reg and certainly doesn't allow you to be paid for it.

[slim_slag]

vortime

I can only give you an idea of what the FAA regs are. As bookworm sensibly suggests, if you are in the UK airspace you will be subject to UK jurisdiction. I am also not up to date with all these new US security rules which might impact on the issuance of an FAA rating.

I don't know of an FAR which prohibits FAA flight training (whatever that is if you are Part 61) in a G-reg. The FARs allow training performed by another ICAO instructor to be counted towards an FAA rating, but you need an FAA instructor to sign you off before you take the rating. When I did my FAA Instrument Rating, I logged actual IMC hours in a G-reg with a UK instructor in UK airspace, and this was allowed to be counted towards the required 40 hours of actual/simulated instrument time for my FAA IR.

The FAA also allows you to take an FAA rating in a G-reg if the examiner says it's OK. So the FAA appear to be quite 'easy' on training, or they did :(

If you know some FAA examiners in the UK, I bet there will be plenty of people wanting their details. There was/is one in Germany, I thought she was the only one in Europe.

Which is the 51st state? The joke goes that it's Canada, but Tony Blair does desparately seem to want that so called honour to go to the UK :D :D

bookworm, I don't know about UK regs, but your extract would suggest that all these FAA CFI guys doing FAA BFRs and IPCs in G-reg planes in UK airspace are being naughty.

[VORTIME]

Can I authorise solo flights outside of US airspace? I get the impression that the FAA will accept any ICAO instruction towards the FAA PPL. Since there're local examiners and test centres, it would be crazy to qualify under the JAA system - I can't afford it nor have I time to complete the ATPL exams (long term aim).

What about insurance policies, do policies generally stipulate any authority to be only allowed carry out training?

I know for my FAA PPL they happily accepted my ICAO hours and exams done over here. Also, I'm reasonable confident that the FAA Skills Test can be done here since I know an organisation offering FAA PPL training. Who should I contact to verify this information?

btw...I hope to get this to volunteer instruction in a local club - students don't pay for instructor time.

[slim_slag]

I'd be totally amazed if you could sign somebody off to solo in the UK if you only had an FAA certificate. Check the FAA web site for info on trainings schools/examiners. There is indeed one FAA examiner in the UK, must be recent, there wasn't one when I last looked. There is also a Part 141 school outside the US, so it's possible, but the one I found is in Amman, so might not be there for much longer.

[distaff_beancounter]

slim_slag
I may be wrong, but I understood that those people who are offering to carry out FAA BFRs & IPCs in the UK in G-Reg A/c, hold both FAA CFI & JAR FI qualifications, & that they must hold BOTH tickets to be legal under CAA regulations.

[StrateandLevel]

In order to send a student solo in a G reg aircraft they will need a JAA Medical Certificate or an HGV certificate (NPPL). To authorise them you would have to hold a JAA Instructors rating.

[slim_slag]

distaff_beancounter

I've heard of a few people providing FAA 'instructor services' in the UK who do not have local ratings. Plenty of Americans get temporarily posted to the UK, happen to be CFIs, want to keep in the flying scene, find it somewhat frustrating to do so in the UK, and so offer their services for BFRs etc. I suppose if there isn't a problem, nobody is the wiser.

['I' in the sky]

VORTIME. The examiners have to be attached to a FSDO to conduct the check rides. I have done some FAA teaching in the UK and we had two options for check rides - this was over a year ago now so individual arranrgemants might have changed however we could either:

1. Use a Frankfurt based examiner examiner which meant either the student and aircraft going to Frankfurt or footing a heafty expenses bill.

2. Use a Saudi airline captain who flew into the UK and held an FAA examiner rating. Again expenses were involved and for reasons I won't go into here I personally didn't like the manner in which the tests were conducted.

There are several FAA instructors in the UK who may be conducting Flight Reviews and Instrument Proficiency checks but they are not examiners.

Yes there is definitely a market for FAA training in the UK principally for those who are considering buying private aircraft to be kept on the N register but if you are doing the training on a G reg aircraft you need the appropriate JAA licence/ratings. If however you have access to an N reg then things should be more straight forward. In this case I think you would also be okay to authorise solo students. I will stress however that I was really only involved in IR training and flight reviews so I never actually verified this point.