AOPA membership useful?

[Mak]

My club is a corporate member of the AOPA and they are quite keen to promote it. So as a good boy I joined it ealier in my training.

My question is: As a PPL holder are they of any use? Or are they, on the other hand, keen to take your membership money but do very little for GA in general or for individual pilots when they really need some help?

Mak

[Aussie Andy]

Good question.

I'm not sure, but I get a nice warm fuzzy feeling every time I pay the membership..!

I like the ID card, and the magazine has improved, but otherwise not sure what is achieved.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Judging by their utterly pathetic response to the NOTAMs debacle they are a waste of space. Save your money.

QDM

[mattpilot]

i like the USA AOPA. they seem to know what they are doing. And according to 'their' press releases they are getting a lot done every week. And i tend to agree with their actions.

And for 40? something (US) bucks a year it aint bad - besides, you get a lot of free things :) .



Maybe the UK AOPA can't do as much as the US AOPA because it doesn't have as many members? And thus can't put much pressure on legislators?

just a guess...

[Keef]

Very much "chicken and egg".

UK AOPA do some useful things, but forget to tell anyone. Talk to them direct, and you will find some excellent stuff being done.

They also forget to ASK us what we want, but go ahead and "do" things anyway (that's how the PPL got caught up in JAR, I'm told).

If they had more members, they could do more, hence attract more people to join, and...


There are a lot of "beefs" about AOPA - like the fact that the AGM is this Thursday at 11 am in a club in London. Why not at an airport at a weekend where members could get there? And the agenda is "restricted" to the accounts and a few routine items. Why not allow members to ask questions and make suggestions?

But without it, we'd all be a lot worse off - the CAA and JAA and EASA would run all over us and we'd never know.

So JOIN and then TELL THEM WHAT YOU WANT. They're listening (mostly), just not ASKING. If you don't join, you deserve what you get (which probably won't be what you want!)

See you at the AGM on Thursday?

[sierra-papa]

Mak,
the AOPA here in the US are the single most active voice for us GA pilots. I feel that they represent most of our concerns and needs in meetings on government level several times each week. Besides that they offer a lot of other services to pilots. Each year when the membership bill comes I know it's for a good reason.

mattpilot,
slight correction: the 40 bucks are per year - not month.

sp

[mattpilot]

sp:

thx, i just noticed my error :)

[SKYYACHT]

IMHO, the best reason for joining, is that AOPA, together with GAAC are actively campaigning against closures of airfields that YOU may want to visit in the future, and lobbying against changes to legislation that may affect YOUR flying club, or airfield. For example, the 28 day rule, (I recently heard that this threat has been dropped) which allows runways/strips to be used for 28 days in any 365 without applying to the local council for a change of use certificate.

It is very easy to miss the "backroom activities", and to see the membership as a waste of valuable flying tokens, but unless we, as the GA Private flying community present a unified lobby group, such as AOPA/GAAC/PFA etc, then we stand to lose in the long run.

AOPA are very knowledgeable and helpful when apprioached, as has been said on posts above.

So, I renew my membership each year - although I could easily spend the cash on another half hours flying......

Blue skies

[formationfoto]

Sadly I am not a member of AOPA (though might just correct that soon) but any organisation which fights our corner must be worth supporting. Unfortunately an organistion of this nature is only as good as its membership and as indicated elsewhere it ia sll a bit Chicken and egg.

As someone mentioned the magazine has just got a whole lot better thanks to the new editor - Philip Whiteman (ex PILOT).

If someone asked me to suggest something as a birthday present I would suggest AOPA membership and might also push it to membership of the PFA and a subscription to both of the news stand magazines (not to favour either!).

[englishal]

I am a member of the US AOPA, and its very good value for money. For my $55 per year, they send the AOPA mag to me in the UK, which is great in itself and cheaper than 12 copies of Flyer or Pilot. Plus you get all the discounts etc etc....But then again I do most of my flying in the US.

I emailed them regarding this US visa issue, and within 24hrs had a personnal reply.

I do notice though that the UK AOPA are continuing the "in the UK so charge more" philosophy which seems to go hand in hand with anything to do with UK aviation or marine, which I am not too happy about....(and who needs an ID card anyway....probably the same people who wear stripes when they hire a C152 :))

Cheers
EA:)

[SKYYACHT]

I accept the points being made about costs being more here than in the US (or even in parts of europe) but regarding AOPA membership fees, as previously mentioned, there are significantly fewer PPLs in the UK than in the US. Naturally, the costs of running an organisations such as AOPA/GAAC/PFA etc still remain the same, but are amortised over a far greater number in the US. That said, If all of the PPLs in the UK, (approx 10,000?) were to join, then not only would this give the GA community far greater political clout with the Mandarins in Whitehall, but would also enable either lower membership, or greater benefits.

Without appearing to be some sort of manic zealot, I would urge any Ppruner to join AOPA or PFA or GAAC - Otherwise future generations of aviators may not have as much to enjoy as we have now - which is probably a lot less than previous flyers had in the early post war years.

Retires to soft wingback chair to puff contentedly on pipe and read the latest update of the AIP - riveting stuff!


Blue skies

[FlyingForFun]

I seem to remember seeing this subject, before, but not for a long time.

One thing which did come up last time, though, was that it took about a week or so of a very active thread before people started realising that the UK AOPA and the US AOPA are two entirely different organisations, with different merits and drawbacks - and the reason many people had such different opinions was because they were talking about different organisations.

Can't find the old thread now, but I seem to call that the conclusion was that the US AOPA was an excellent organisation, well worth joining if you're a US pilot. The UK AOPA was far less active, and the benefits were far less obvious. But many posters pointed out that the reason people don't join is because they don't have any real power, the reason they don't have any real power is because they don't have enough cash, and the reason they don't have enough cash is because they don't have many members. So it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.

FFF
--------------

[Mak]

Thanks for your opinions. I gather that for the cost of 1/2 hour flying it's worth keeping it going. They now have a much cheaper price for students which is, I think, the right way to get new people in through the door.

I just have one other question: in this thread people mentioned other organisations: GAAC and PFA. Forgive my ignorance, but in what way are they different from the OAPA? And if they aren't that much different shouldn't we (members) be putting some pressure towards a merger?

Mak

[chrisN]

Mak, an answer and website links here, then more details by email to you (and anyone else wishing to read it all).

AOPA principally caters for GA pilots who wish to fly without building their own, or entering competitions, or setting out to break records. It also has corporate members, mainly flying schools. On the airfield front, it assists operators who are members with planning issues on their specific aerodromes. It supports planning arguments with Government and local authorities etc. via GAAC, of which it is a member organisation. See http://www.aopa.co.uk.


PFA principally caters for power pilots who wish to build and/or maintain their own aircraft. There is also a some competition element, and it is a conduit for setting out to break certain records, for which it is necessary to belong to an association which is a member of the Royal Aero Club, which PFA is. On the airfield front, it supports planning arguments with Government and local authorities etc. via GAAC, of which it is a member organisation. See http://www.pfa.org.uk.


(The Royal Aero Club is the UK federation of air sport controlling bodies, all of which have some sporting, competitive, and/or record element. It is a club of Associations. Other RAeC members include BGA, BBAC, BMAA etc. covering gliding, ballooning, microlites, etc.. Individuals can join too, but they are not a primary focus of RAeC. See http://www.royalaeroclub.org/raechome.htm.)

GAAC was set up by AOPA and PFA initially, then joined by around 80 other organisations including almost all those in membership of RAeC, all concerned at the general planning issues affecting aerodromes. It is almost the only place where AOPA and the sporting aviation bodies come together in common cause. Individuals can support it too, and their financial contributions all help. See http://www.gaac.co.uk.

Each of the separate associations has been found necessary in the past because they cater for widely different needs, have different specialities in knowledge and support for their pilots, and sometimes have different agendas from each other on certain topics. The question of GAAC taking on a larger common role was raised at its last AGM, and it was clear that only on the planning front is there enough common ground for GAAC to speak for all. Also, it is all GAAC has funds for. It is the creature of its creators and financial supporters, which is largely BGA, AOPA, PFA and smaller contributions from the other associations, plus some indiviual members and many small groups such as PFA struts. Those who pay call the tune, and general (not site-specific) planning issues are what they pay it to tackle.

BGA and BMAA provide specific site planning help to various extents for their specialised flying sites, as AOPA does for its aerodrome operator members.

That's the summary. I'll post details of GAAC and RAeC membership privately to you, to save space here. If anyone else wants them, let me know.

[sierra-papa]

--> In the US AOPA magazine there is mention of the "International AOPA" (with meetings all over Europe and the whole nine yards). Just out of curiosity: Where / how does this name fit in wih all the others you have there in the UK???
sp

[Coke611]

Is the AOPA student pilot membership worth doing whilst still studying for the PPL?

Have downloaded the form from the website, (which is very short indeed, with only a name and address area on it !) but is it worth spending the £15 or so now or when the PPL is done?

[Keef]

So, with all the debate on this topic in mind , I betook me to the AOPA AGM in London yesterday.

What ChrisN has written is an excellent synopsis of what AOPA, GAAC, PFA (and others) do.

What I found out was just how much AOPA is doing. There was a two-hour presentation, and apart from the section about the NPPL, most of it was news to me. Why don't we know about all that? In part because the guys are too busy doing it, and too stretched to take time out to write it up for publication (until they're finished). In part because some of it is in delicate negotiations stage and too much publicity might harm the result.

Believe me, what AOPA is doing is for ALL pilots - those who (like me) consider it their duty to support an organisation that works for me, AND those who are happy to accept this work done for them, without contributing to the costs of doing so.

I make no apology for encouraging all pilots who want to be able to fly in UK airspace in ten years time to join AOPA-UK *now*. And if you're good at this stuff, offer to join in and help do some of the work!

And the first time you make an error in navigation and violate some controlled airspace, and are "summonsed", your AOPA membership will be covered ten times over by the legal assistance you will get. AOPA's track record in defending members accused (rightly or falsely) is excellent.

I have no equity in AOPA - other than as a member. I'm glad I am. No, it's not perfect. It's a heck of a lot better than the alternative of nothing.

There! Rant over. I feel better now.

[chrisN]

SP, I have only an vague idea of International AOPA, not being involved personally, but AOPA in the UK is a member of IAOPA, and AFAIAW so are all other countries' AOPA's including the USA one.

From AOPA's house magazine I gleaned the following:

The British Light Aviation Centre was set up in the fifties to look after the interests of several sectors of the lighter end of GA. [It was formed from an amalgamation of the Association of British Aero Clubs, and the Royal Aero Club. The latter subsequently became independent of BLAC/AOPA.]

The [USA] AOPA originated in the States in 1939, but it was not long before the advantages of forming an internationally recognised council of associations became clear, and national AOPA's were established in many countries. The BLAC was asked to form AOPA (UK), which it did simply by deciding to trade under the name of AOPA.

I guess IAOPA is that international council. If someone more in touch wants to clarify further, I would be interested to know. Meanwhile, I have heard of [UK] AOPA people being in touch with IAOPA on various issues, so there is definitely a connection there.

[LowNSlow]

chrisN and Keef excellent posts. You have inspired me to get off my lazy bum and join AOPA.

englishal I like the idea of an ID card with PILOT writ large on it. It'll match the 5 gold bars I wear on my epaulets :cool:

[WestWind1950]

In Germany we also have an AOPA and I have been a member since sometime in the 80's. I, too, have often wondered whether it's worth it, but I do know they do more in the background then we realise. Their homepage could be much more informative and their magazine, too, but that all needs someone with time to do it. Many members complain about them but don't offer to help themselves...but that's how it is in any organisation, even the local flying club, right? ;)
I occasionally receive copies of the American AOPA magazine and I'm amazed at the information in it. It's especially interesting to read that in America, too, there are problems with airfield closures and noise.. the pilots always claim here that ONLY in Germany do these problems exist! I think it would be good, if ALL the different AOPA's would work together more and exchange news about the various problems which all seem to share.
And when I read that for an American membership I would only have to pay $55 per year and in Germany I pay €100 :eek: makes me almost wonder if an American membership offers me more. But as said above, the local AOPA's need memberships in order to be able to work.
So, become a member and help them do an even better job!! They are an important link between the flying community and the authorities (often people with no flying knowledge... I know, I work for one......ooooops, didn't intend to out myslef! :p )

WestWind1950

[sennadog]

Well, on the basis of some of the posts here I've decided to join but how about one of the AOPA hierarchy coming on PPRuNe and telling us what they are about? Or is that classified as advertising?

[skua]

I would like to endorse all the "pro" comments. The need for people to fight on our behalf has never been greater. The Aircrew ID card is invaluable. I have used for, inter alia, blagging a room at the Dallas Hilton for only $40.

Also the quarterly magazine is now much improved, having become the new home of most of Pilot's old editorial staff.

[englishal]

blagging a room at the Dallas Hilton for only $40

Normal price is only $35 :D :D

[fullyestablished]

I have found both the US and the UK AOPA to offer outstanding quality of advice and service levels that the CAA would do well to emulate. Whenever I wantd to find out about getting permission to land at some obscure military airfield in some obscure country they always came up with the correct information in next to no time. They are also there for you if you ever get into any legal turbulence as well. I bet the people running these organisations are not getting rich on it, let them at least feel appreciated!

[Keef]

AOPA coming on here to comment on this and that ... well, Martin Robinson did put in an appearance a while ago on another forum, and got enough GBH of the headset to last a lifetime. Mostly about people's pet peeves.

You never know, he might decide to put in an appearance here; if he does, I'd suggest we all try to keep it civilised: the result might be beneficial to all of us, in terms of exchange of opinions, priorities, etc.

[Philip Whiteman]

I keep getting prods to contribute to this thread (not from AOPA!)

Believing that it is for the reader/member/PPRuNe poster to make any truly valid comment on either 'General Aviation' or AOPA's worth, I will confine myself to a couple of factual observations:

1. the revamped magazine is bimonthly, rather than quarterly and

2. none of us -- old 'Pilot' hands working on the magazine, or even AOPA executives -- are getting rich, for sure!

[SatInTheBack]

As a card carying member of UK AOPA it has stood me in good stead over the years, but sat in the back rather then in the front!

1. pre euro, they had a discount on duty free in Dublin, and I am still drinking the stuff, so membership fee paid there. Used it for others who were flying with me at the time so even more saved.
- aslo as stated above used to get discounts on hotel rooms and car hire
2. In other parts of the world got me in to places that the normal SLF would not be allowed. ( mainly the lounges when traveling or crew rooms esp in Africa).

3. pre 11 Sept, In the US. they took one look at the card and let you wander all over the place. Miami, Boston and San Jose but Dallas was the best, got on the staff bus between gates rather than walk.

but to bring it up to date, its 30 mins flying time and hotel discounts in Europe are few and far between but are useful.


but as to flying ...... I think it needs more members to gain a voice, it needs to communicate what it does.

[gaffney3]

I was heavily involved in the PFA for years and had frequent dealings with AOPA-UK as both organisations are doing far more behind the scenes that most realise. I am a firm believer in “hanging together or we will all hang separately” In the UK the CAA does consult, and listens to, both organisations on aviation issues
I moved to Ireland 18 months ago. PFA has little influence and AOPA Ireland seems to have self destructed in a welter of writs. I now feel extremely vulnerable, as there seems to be no voice for general aviation in this state.
I would advocate anyone remotely interested in any branch of aviation to join the organisation which most seems to match his or her interests. A single letter to a government minister rarely gets attention. A body or bodies, which represents over 30,000 people, will get heard.

[Min Sink]

I was due to go to Florida to finish off my PPL 2 weeks after Sept 11. AOPA-US kept everyone very well infomed and lobbied the goverment to allow GA back into the air again. In the end I only had to delay going out by a week but without their hard work it could have been much longer.

When I got the first thing I did was add my support to AOPA-UK by joining.

[GearDownAndWelded]

I sometimes feel guilty about not doing more to support the individual battles that airfields have to fight in order to survive. And this is only one of the issues facing GA today. I tell myself that there are only 24 hours in a day and I can't do everything. And I happily pay my DD to AOPA and PFA each year, knowing that it is the very least I can do towards being able to still fly as a private pilot in the UK in years to come.

Every pilot should join AOPA. Join today if you haven't already.

[bingoboy]

I have never been a member of AOPA as I perceive it to mainly support the Flying Training industry with some negative side effects for future and current GA PPLs.
I wonder why we now need fully commercial instructors and whether the Nppl would have been needed if the continual growth in PPL hours requirement had not threatened the future of GA.
I would like to think that non-commercial Nppl instructors are being actively lobbied for along with Nppl instruction from unlicenced airfields.
If the latter is so then perhaps I'll join as GA needs more recruits.

[Baily]

UK AOPA seems to me to be a truly worthwhile organisation. To compare it with US AOPA is not useful as it has only about 8000 members (this from memory only so please correct me if you know differently) while US AOPA has hundreds of thousands of members. US AOPA therefore can afford to provide considerable benefits and has a large fully salaried staff. Most of UK AOPA's staff are volunteers and still they do a great job of representing GA in general and fighting for us all. Not much thanks they get for it either. Remember that government take a lot more notice of an organisation like AOPA than they do of individuals even quite a lot of individuals.

Finally - don't sneer at the aircrew card. Having flown around Continental Europe and North Africa quite a bit. I have found the card to be absolutely invaluable. For example in Basle airport I had great trouble in getting back to my tiny aircraft through security. A passport was not enough. The next time I visited Basle I had an AOPA aircrew card with my photo on it and was immediately hurried through and was provided with instant, free courtesy travel to the aircraft.

Many hotels near airports will give immediate aircrew discounts on production of the card. I know because I have done it.

In Morocco the card was also useful. In fact I recommend a shirt with epaulettes as well!!

By the way I have nothing to do with AOPA apart from being a member.

B.

AOPA

I must have got that 8000 wrong!! I'll phone them tomorrow to ask

B.

[Baily]

I have just spoken to UK AOPA and to US AOPA. The facts are interesting.

UK has about 5500 members or thereabouts and as I said above does a good job with very limited resources.

US has about 358,000 members and is a powerful lobbying organisation with very considerable resources.

[SatInTheBack]

so using those numbers and a little web surfing

UK AOPA 5500 at £55 per year is about £300k ( $ 454k)
US AOPA 358000 at $39 per year is about £9.3M ($ 14M)

Hmmm now I wonder who has the biggest clout
I suppose I could have looked at the accounts but I think this is near enough


back to work cos no matter what ratings you have its too wet to take the cover off the plane