ditching a large jet

[eastern wiseguy]

I was sitting in the back of a large jet over the middle of the Atlantic the other evening when my thoughts turned to what if ......the aircraft had to be placed on the surface of the sea.Is this ever "practised"in the sim? Has anyone done it?Just curious(and as an atc I am aware of the various 180 minute type rules)

[Flying Clog]

The aircraft operating manual for my craft states that ditching is not a certified procedure as it hasn't yet been tested for such!!!

Seriously though, the short answer is yes, there is a ditching procedure in all aircraft's emergency checklist.

[canberra]

back in 95 an raf nimrod (xv666) ditched off kinloss after a fire in the wing. everyone survived. but the raf has decided to to use the number 666 anymore!!

[start sequence 312]

I must confess but never seen any large commercial airplane training in simulator with a special program for ditching. It’s hard to simulate ocean environment and in case of a real ditching crews must prepare the airplane based only on checklist…and good luck!
Water landing emergency training usually considers procedures after ditching, for instance, survival on water, how to use emergency devices, etc.

[BlueEagle]

In a film called Air Force One, (Harrison Ford), you will see what I think is the realistic result of an attempted ditching of a B747!

[Hand Solo]

Theres a video around of an Ethiopian Airlines 757 (I think) ditching off the Comoros Islands and its catastrophic to say the least. That said, it would appear the Captain did a very good job as I imagine its a tad distracting to be battered by a hijackers gun when your trying to ditch the beast.

[Agaricus bisporus]

In 50 years of civil jet aviation there has only ever been one case of premeditated ditching - a DC9 in the Carribbean when the Capt suffered a humungous brain-fart and avoided several chances at a landing on terra-firma. Despite inclement weather half the pax survived, most of those who died due to a slide that inflated in the fwd cabin instead of outside thus blocking an exit.

Remember that he crew of the Ethiopian dithching were apparently being attacked with an axe at the time of their - under the circumstances - incredibly well controlled landing.

Remember also the B 707 that ditched in (Lake Victoria?) Africa last year. Crew allegedly mis-set altimeter and struck the oggin at "500 feet" fully configured for a (ground) landing and without flare. The old bus not only preserved the lives of the sinners who had so ignominiously brought about her end, but had the dignity to remain afloat until daylight whereupon the local fishermen hauled her to the beach and, bless them, claimed salvage. I hope, though without much expectation (knowing Africa) that they got their just rewards.



The story on ditching remains the same... 999 out of 1000 ditchings are without warning - time to shout, "Brace Brace Brace" to the cabin as you run off / out of runway and SPLOSH! Not much choice or time for anyone.

[Volume]

Ditching is still a big issue in airplane certification. FAR/JAR 25.801 requests any airplane certified for flying water routes to be capable of ditching. This must be demonstrated by model tests or by comparison with other types of known behaviour.
Some of the knowledge might be found in the
NACA Report 1 (http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1956/naca-rm-l56g10/naca-rm-l56g10.pdf) or the
NACA Report 2 (http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1958/naca-report-1347/naca-report-1347.pdf),
additional experience exists from a few succesfull water landings with different type of piston driven Bombers (lots of them ditched during WWII, mainly in the Pacific), piston driven passenger transport (e.g.Boeing 307 (http://www.aviationpics.com/oops/307/page_01.htm) ) and some jets (e.g. 707, DC9, Comet/Nimrod).

Sick,
although the 146 fuselage will make a perfect boat, evacuation of the cabin is not that easy. Reading the safety card in one, I now know that the two aft exits are under water when a 146 is floating, so you just have the two front ones aviable. And they might be damaged by the Impact. Personally I don´t want to try ditching this type.
But maybe the chance of ditching a 146 after an engine failure might be even less probable if you add two more engines :D

[Speedbird252]

Hi Eastern, the ethiopian 767 ditching that Hand Solo mentioned can be found at:

www.airdisaster.com/movies

Click on the pic and follow the download info. As said, gives you an idea of what a good job he was doing, but with the low wing the donks drag when they hit the water and the decel does the rest.

Regards, Speedy :D

[What_does_this_button_do?]

I don't suppose an Air China 747-400 falling off the end of Kai Tak counts? Pity they didn't tow it around to the Jumbo Restaurant and call it Jumbo II.

B

[BlueEagle]

I think it is correct to say that the CAL 744 at Kai Tak was almost new but had to be written off as beyond economic repair. Unsubstantiated rumour was that CX bought the salvage and increased their spares holding accordingly!:)

[Lou Scannon]

Don't be fooled into believing that just because an aeroplane looks like a flying boat, it will necessarily behave like one in a ditching. (146 type etc).

I remember reading a report on a C130 ditching off the coast of Vietnam. Premeditated, ideal conditions and observed by another aircraft at close range, it left a wake estimated at 75 yards long and nothing else. Not even a few bits of wreckage.

Over the years I have noticed that the ones that get away with it to some extent seem to be in the landing configuration. Maybe the low speed and little fuel on board contributes.

Don't worry about the under-wing engines digging in by the way. They are all designed to flip upwards and depart over the top of the wing. It will be the underside that splits, opens and digs in.

Had the Ethiopian 767 Captain not been under a personal attack as he ditched and been allowed to keep the wings level, the result might have been even more successful. As it was, the aircraft dug a wing tip in the sea first.

[GlueBall]

November 11, 1990 a Faucett B727-247 on a westbound ferry flight across the Atlantic (KEF-YQX) with 22 airline employes aboard was forced to ditch due to fuel starvation. If there were any survivors, none was found. Only pieces of a floating life raft and a few life vests were found. The airplane was not equipped with Omega nor with INS and the "dead reckoning" pilots making the distress call obviously could not be certain of their position. :(

[John (Gary) Cooper]

My experience was being 'dunked in the oggin' 41 miles South of the Equator, in true tradition! The word 'ditching' can sometimes be loosely used, the intention of a ditching as all you FLIGHT DECK guys know is an intentional forced landing in the sea/river/lake etc. My incident occurred whilst I was a passenger in a 4 engine piston job which 'landed' in the sea in a tropical storm 1.5 miles short of the runway. Apart from 3 terrific bangs/crashes and 3 of the 4 engines being ripped off plus undercarriage the first we passengers knew about it was when the AQM opened the exit door and water rushed in. How about that for a surprise in pitch darkness, want to read about it click on to <WWW> above, it is something I wouldn't recommend, sharks, engine oil, fuel in the sea, it had more drama than you can imagine.......

[John (Gary) Cooper]

Just as a point of interest where are the dinghies stowed in wide bodied jets, within the wing section or are they literrally discharged by hand from the fuselage area. Plus how many dinghies are there for a e.g., 747 ?

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

On the 747's that I have flown (BA & VS) the emergency exit slides double as life rafts ( according to the safety card). In the event of a ditiching once you are on baord you separate the slide/raft from the aircraft and off you go.

At one per exit (not sure if the overwing exit slides can be used as rafts) thst makes it 8 or 10 on a Boeing 747-400, 8 for the A340-300.

Regards
TBS

[John (Gary) Cooper]

TBS
Thanks for that, Not knowing how these modern gadgets work would that mean that these escape chutes are technically 'canoe like' devices holding say, 40 persons each with a Flight Attendant taking up a position in each chute. One assumes that all the necessary satellite distress beacons plus emergency rations are incorporated into same......... John

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi,

I would hope so ( although personally, I hope that I would never need to find that out)

Regards
TBS

[BlueEagle]

The last action, when the life raft/slide is full is to 'cut the attaching strap to the aircraft', so first job on entering the raft is to locate the emergency knife as, since Sept. 11th, there will be no other readily available knives. If the strap isn't cut then when the aircraft sinks it will take the raft, (and contents), with it!:(

[John (Gary) Cooper]

Thanks Blue Eagle, however.......To cut the strap, yes you have to find the knife, the thing is where is the knife positioned, imagine it is dark and only the light from lightning is available plus emergency lighting is on in the cabin giving some light, the raft is pitching in five foot waves, where do you look? In the incident I was involved in (42 years ago) the dinghy I was in was tied to the aircraft, but we were not aware of this at the time and after trying to paddle away from the aircraft frantically for a few minutes (that seemed like hours) it was myself that had spotted a thin nylon(?) cord attached to the fuselage, the knife apparently was in a sheathe which was floatable and attached to the dinghy, none of us knew there was such a device handy. Only by good fortune that in my dinghy, there was a Royal Marine Commando on board as a pax, he pulled a knife from his sock and severed the cord.......this then enabled us to paddle away from the still floating aircraft. I have since found two Flight Engineers who last year informed me that the cord was designed to sever by 'breaking strain' when the aircraft sank, thus leaving the occupants of the dinghy free to escape to safety. The aircraft stayed afloat for twenty minutes before sinking to the abyss, we by this time was some 200-300 yards off the tailplane.

I expect today things have moved on apace and that such knives are to be found in a DAY-GLO holder. I might just add that most crew are trained for such emergencies, presumably, but in reality it is the shear fear and 'organised chaos' that sees you through the event!

[Lou Scannon]

John.
Was that aircraft the RAF Hastings that ditched very close (but not on) the Island of Gan?

I was brought up on the stories of how the pax and crew assumed the aircraft was supported by the sea bed and then it suddenly sank in many fathoms!

That was one of the cases that support my theory that the ones that get away with it are the ones in the landing configuration.

[John (Gary) Cooper]

Yes Lou the very same one, it is amazing how this story spread I personally think that it was deliberately put out by someone to take the embarrassment out of the situation. The best one that I heard is described on my website above (www) from a well respected aviation author (who too had heard this story!) where the passengers thought the aircraft had landed on the reef, they basically refused to get their feet wet until the Air Sea Rescue Launch (RTTL 2747) came up alongside where upon the pax collected their hand luggage and donned their Service Dress caps before alighting said aircraft. The aircraft, a Handley Page Hastings, stayed afloat for twenty minutes, and went down Starboard wing first, reason being that # 4 engine was the only one still attached. I have had various depths described to me that said aircraft is sitting in from 1200-8000 feet of water. The Hydrographic Office do not know the exact depth nor too does the Wrecks Officer for the RAF know where the aircraft is located.....I can tell you this though that there are two Hastings lying in that part of the oggin, one that had crashed 8 months previous to mine from the same squadron in Singapore with consecutive numbers, the other one ground looped on landing and after being stripped of its essentials was towed out to sea and dumped, this I only found out recently from someone who was on board this aircraft.