Redhill - Sywell Routing.

[sennadog]

I haven't really had a look at the charts yet but I'm after some help for the above flight to the bash at Sywell.

As it's my first "major" flight I want to keep the work load to a minimum so I'm half thinking about routing via Southend and on up past Stanstead, leaving it to port and then across past Cambridge etc.

What I'm after is some good tips such as amenable LARS units to contact and some general advice on route planning. Ideally, I'll use easy to distinguish land marks such reservoirs and towns that you can't miss (just watch me:D ).

Now that I've scared Evo stiff (he's my partner in crime that day) with my Nav skills it's over to you guys...

Feel free to make suggestions as to better routes and I'm not after a freebie plog here (that would be nice) but just some general good tips bearing in mind that I'm a recent PPL who wants the easiest route with a lowish workload.

Cheers all,

Sennadog.

[Evo]

Looking at my half mil as we speak, and just PM'd you about it. I'm happy up to Wycombe, but hints about avoiding Luton (other than Sennadog suddenly saying "you have control" ;) ) welcome :)

OK, bit more time looking at the chart, and I reckon something like Guildford, WOD, WCO (assuming he's got an ADF in the Katana and it works better than the bl**dy thing I had on my QXC that pointed South when I thought I would check my position while approaching Hengistbury Head inbound to Bournemouth :rolleyes: :) ) and then routing west of Milton Keynes and then to Sywell.

Advice... especially who to talk to? :)

[Lawyerboy]

Not sure about daan saaarf, but personally I'd head up over the Thames Estuary, past Southend and towards Cambridge; no experience of talking to Southend, but Cambridge very helpful and quite happy to provide a FIS. Alternatively, could head for LAM, along the low level route from LAM to Ware (no higher than 1,500ft, I normally do it at 1,400ft), and then up between Stansted and Luton, o/h Bedford Thurliegh (can't miss the bloody place) and a left turn towards Sywell? Pleasant enough trip.

Of course you'll have to hope the place isn't shut when you get there...:D

[Fred]

Happen to be looking at me chart and can humbly offer the following advice: would suggest OCK then SVFR to BUR and out of the zone to WCO. Therefore after Redhill switch straight away to Heathrow Special 119.9 whom I have always found very helpful. That way you get a radar service away from the thousands of little planes buzzing around to the west of the LHR zone and they usually give traffic info outside it too. Otherwise go round the zone and talk to Farnborough Rad 125.25 but assuming it's a weekend their workload will not permit RIS if it's a nice sunny day. If you go through the zone then a). you will need to talk to Wycombe 126.55 immediately on leaving so if you only have one box ask for freq. change just beforehand; b). be very carefull not to exceed max. cleared alt. (will probably be 1500'). after Heathrow/Wycombe talk to Brize Rad 134.3.

One way to avoid Luton: set DME to Bovingdon 113.75; maintain no less than 10d and below 3500' till past WCO; then no less than 15d.

[Evo]

then SVFR to BUR and out of the zone to WCO.


Sennadog, you feeling brave mate? :)

As a (very) new PPL, I hadn't thought about that - to me the boundary of the London CTR is the gates of Hell, just without the "All Hope Abandon, Ye Who Enter Here" inscription (too big to fit on the half mil, I guess). Would make it a lot easier - how likely are we to be allowed through?

[sennadog]

Just thought I'd check in before bebby byes. Thanks for the nightmares chaps! SVFR - *GULP*....

Evo - did I mention you're in charge of RT as well as Nav?;)

[Saab Dastard]

Sennadog / EVO - whichever of you is doing the NAVand R/T!

Try the SVFR, the Chaps at Heathrow were really great when I did one with a pal Brooklands - White Waltham "not above 1000'!"

Excellent. :D

If I were you I would prepare a route south of the CTR, routing Ockham, Woking, Bagshot, Reading. That keeps you out of every body's way. Use the WOD NDB as a marker to turn North, scooting between Benson and Wycombe.

Enjoy!

[Aussie Andy]

The following would be easy (but check map to see nothing in the way):

Route: DCT Ockham DCT Blackbushe DCT WOD DCT WCO DCT

LARS: 1) Farnborough (QSY for transit overhead Blackbushe); 2) Brize; 3) You're there! (maybe call Cranfield on the way past if close enough)

[Keef]

Lots of choices!

Personally, I'd avoid LHR SVFR, just in case they're busy and you end up going all round the houses. Helpful as they are, if LHR is busy and on the "wrong" runway it could get interesting.

Assuming I have VOR and a *good* ADF in the aircraft, I'd go OCK - R275 till near Blackbushe, then DCT WOD DCT WCO DCT.

My experience of the NDBs in that part of the world is poor, so personally I'd be more comfortable with OCK - R175 - Blackbushe - DCT DTY DCT.

Southend are extremely friendly - and provide LARS these days - but that's a long detour. I'm going from there anyway (via EGTO). See you folks at Sywell.

I'll be in mufti so you won't recognise me ;)

[LowNSlow]

I don't use VOR's cos I haven't got one, or an NDB for that matter. However, if you get yourself to Stapleford then route NW to Hatfield (can't miss it, huge building site but the foundations of the old runways are still clearly visible, well they were a month ago) call LTN on 129.55 and ask them for a transit through their overhead (over the western threshold) and then direct to Sywell.
Watch out for traffic to your NE at Hatfield cos the Panshanger circuit can get busy.

The route through Luton's overhead was in the article about VRP's in Todays Pilot a while back.

I'm away from my charts at the moment so there may be a few caveats in the above but the message is don't be afraid of Luton, they are very helpful, much more so than their neighbours to the East.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Blackbush - WOD - HEN (or WCO) - DCT.

ATC Agencies: Farnborough, Northolt/Benson, Brize.

[Aussie Andy]

Benson, in my experience, are never open on the weekend - but obviously call anyway if passing through the MATZ.

[Who has control?]

Sennadog,

How about Biggin VOR, Dartford Crossing, Lambourne/Stapleford.

At this point look right for me climbing up out of North Weald.

Then Ware, (look for the lakes), Bigglewade, turn a bit left & straight up to Sywell, looking for Pitsford Res.

[Ace Rimmer]

I was giving this some thought last night cept from Shoreham the great East round or West round looking at all that pink to the NE of the smoke has got me thinking bout something like either MID then talk to F'boro WOD (talk to White Waltham and Wycombe then pretty much direct being sure to keep enough west to keep clear of the LTN zone or do a bit of VOR work and go MID – (F'boro again) CPT (Benson) then pretty much direct anybody got any thoughts?

Incidentally, There will probably be a spare seat in the Rimmer-mobile...

[LowNSlow]

According to my lunchtime visit to my laptop NavPro, the difference in distance between going around to the West via Blackbushe or the East via Biggin, Dartford Crossing, Stapleford, Luton is minimal so it depends on whether or not you can climb fast enough to go overhead Biggin from Redhill :D :D

[FlyingForFun]

I don't know the area to the east very well, but most of my flying has been to the west of London, so I can certainly offer advice if you decide to go that way.

I don't have a chart with me. But, off the top of my head, the first problem you'll find is 3 danger areas between Farnborough/Blackbushe and London. They are shown as being up to 2400', with the TMA starting a 2500'. However, they are usually only active to 1200' I think - not sure on the exact altitude but it's certainly low enough that you can get over the top of them. Contact Farnborough Radar for DAAIS, and plan an alternative route just in case.

After that, you should be able to spot Reading fairly easily. Be careful of traffic routing east/west in and out of White Waltham as you're heading north. Doesn't harm to call Waltham Radio if you're routing close to the airfield - they won't provide you with any service except telling you the runway in use, but at least other pilots will know that you're there.

The same applies to Wycombe, although you have to watch out for gliders there, too. Wycombe Tower usually seem to appreciate a call if you're going past them. And, because they're ATC, they may be able to give you traffic information for arriving/departing aircraft (or they may not).

Past Wycombe, Stoken Church mast makes an excellent navigation aid to check you're on track. And, after that, the airspace becomes pretty easy. Brize Radar will give you a service if you ask them.

I seem to recall Sywell itself being fairly easy to spot as grass fields go, so no problems there.

That's about it off the top of my head! If you do go that way, feel free to e-mail me from my profile if you want to. See you there!

FFF
-------------

(That's all weather-permitting, of course - the latest forecast doesn't look good :( )

[Fred]

Evo - to answer your question, I have never been refused LHR SVFR in probably around 20 requests ('course that could have been fluky). Bear in mind it's only good for cutting the SW & NW corners though.

[drauk]

In order to offer the most useful reply, it would be helpful to know your preferences. Do you have VOR? ADF? GPS? Or would you rather do it using DR? Or following roads and railways?

Or maybe all the suggestions you've had to date have already answered your question, in which case, have a good trip.

[sennadog]

drauk ....

good point mate. I have GPS and VOR although I don't have a great deal of experience using either. I'm going to try to get up for some GPS time as it has heaps of waypoints logged in it or I may use my handheld.

At the moment I want this to be a good test run for DR to check myself/ourselves out as this is the most basic skill that I'll need supplemented by GPS/VOR.

I may have got the point across in some of my posts that I'm Captain Cautious at the moment (in an aircraft at least, don't ever get in a car with me though) so what I don't want to do is put too much pressure on myself with this flight plus I don't want to **** off too many LARS units in the South East!:D

There are some great ideas here and too many to mention personally but I'm now leaning towards going North via the East route and returning on the West route.

Cheers All.

PS. BRL - can we have a thumbs up smiley please?

[Aussie Andy]

G'day Sennadog,

Don't be ashamed of being Captain Cautious!!! Its a good way to be!

Re- the GPS having "heaps of waypoints logged in it", my advice would be to ignore them. I habitually erase any/all stored user waypoints in our club aircraft before use... what you may think is e.g. "RDNG" = "Reading" may turn out to be somewhere different, either because the previous user meant something else completely, or he/she may have inadvertently entered incorrect waypoints! If you didn't enter it, don't use it!

[drauk]

sennadog, if you are planning a DR route you obviously want to use the clearest possible landmarks.

On the easterly route you could overfly Biggin Hill or follow the M25 and go just south of Biggin and across the Thames at the QEII Bridge. You won't miss that. Get a FIS from Biggin. By this time you should know if your winds aloft forecast was accurate and how much margin for error you've got in terms of missing the London/City CTR and Luton-Stanstead. If everything is looking good you can then route directly to overhead Stapleford. If not you can follow the M25, which will only add a very short distance. You can try Thames Radar but it depends on how busy they are. Then even if you overfly Stapleford at sufficient height they always seem happy to hear from you.

Use http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/299/stansted.pdf to help you through the gap between Luton and Stanstead. Luton will nearly always give you a FIS. Then I'd pick Little Gransden (you can be up at 3500 now) and then direct to Sywell, or via Grafham Water if you want a big landmark to break the leg.

[Who has control?]

Sennadog,

Bear in mind that on your return it will probably be about 3-4:00 in the afternoon, so if you are going to come home routing to the west of London, you will be tending to look towards the sun for all your landmarks.

If its at all hazy then you could end up in a fairly busy part of the sky not over confident of your position. :(

You might want to do the more difficult westerly route on the way up, with the sun behind you, and the easterly route on the way back, with the sun more or less abeam of you.

(Or do the easy easterly route both ways, like me)

[Don D Cake]

A Luton transit depends on the traffic density. This weekend it was quiet and while I was inbound a chap asked for a transit, sounding a little concerned about which part of the airfield to cross. He was told by the extremely cheerful controller that it didn't really matter as long as he passed behind the jet on final approach. Give them an early call and if they can find a way to fit you in they certainly will.

[Lawyerboy]

Not sure I'd bother with a transit through the Luton zone, to be honest with you; seems unecessary when the route up between Luton and Stansted is, to be fair, quite wide and easily navigable by DR - start at Ware, keep Stevenage (you really can't miss it) off to your left, Biggleswade off to your right, and turn left when you get to Bedford Thurliegh or, (as drauk suggested) Grafham Water.

[sennadog]

Who has control? raises an excellent point regarding the position of the sun which I hadn't considered and given that I've had problems with Redhill in the past flying into the sun (and I know the place pretty well) I think the Westerly route in the morning returning via the Easterly route is the way to go.

I'm reasonably comfortable with the bits up to Blackbushe and the Southend area plus Evo's been up to Wycombe so we should see most of Southern England doing it this way.

Once again,

Cheers Guys.

:)

[LowNSlow]

sennadog if you go the Easterly route to Sywell you will indeed have the rising sun (hopefully) in your eyes but at 10ish onward it should be high enough not to give you any problems.

Returning from Sywell, if you fly to the West of London you will have the sun on your right until you turn left at the London CTR when you will have the sun BEHIND you cos you are now heading East. Conversly if you go home via Biggin, as you come around the CTR you will be heading West with the sun in your eyes. So on balance I'd recommend going via Biggin to Sywell and via Blackbushe on the return. That way you get to experience both routes and take advantage of the (probably) westerly wind to boot when you are most in line with it's (probable) direction. Bonus all round then!! :D :D