Flak from the neighbours!

[Cat.S]

If you were the pilot of the 152 practising steep turns, lazy 8's and wing-overs above my house in the LLR at teatime today you may be interested in the fact that my neighbours are most unimpressed and communicated their displeasure in my direction.

I suspect that none of them will have been able to read your number however to make an official complaint about what they consider as aerobatics over their houses, as your height of between 1500-2500' agl would render the letters too small to see with the naked eye.

I'm sure you had clearance from Manchester App. to transit the corridor above 1250' and carry out manoevres at this height and also saw the microlight which had to twice change course to avoid you????

[goatgruff]

If you're going to make a complaint, at least use some accurate information backed up with common sense.:rolleyes:

You state the aircraft was at height of between 1500 - 2500ft, flying over your house, well if it was at that height, it would be in a very good position to glide clear in the event of something going wrong.
As for the turns and manouvres, if you really are a PPL you'll know that this is all part of the training, and it does no harm to keep current once qualified.
Did you ask EGCC ATCC if the aircraft had permission to be where it was? I can give you the ATCC watch managers number if you like, then you can waste his time as well as your own.

No doubt you and your neighbours are at this moment forming an action group to prevent flying over your specific houses, with a sub committee to take care of the noise made when grass grows.

I note from your profile that you'e an author, if you tuck yourself away in the cellar, you'll be able to write away to your hearts content and not hear a squeak from the outside world - but I warn you - I have placed noise monitering equipment in your garden to combat the environmental pollution you cause with that damned word processor of yours.
:) :p :rolleyes: :)

[PA38]

Without looking at my chart, but I am sure Wigan is outside the low level route, so it could do as it pleased.... I live just outside Manchester controlled zone and have spent loads of time over my area (without complaint) even after disturbing the local pub bowls match, If I had disturbed the beer drinking I would have been for the high jump..
If it was training perhaps they should have picked on a less populated area, or just buy the NIMBY's a pie :D

[englishal]

Blimey GoatGruff,

Bit strong wasn't it. If you read the post again without the red 'rant' haze infront of your eyes, you'll see that it is not Cat.S thats complaining but the neighbours.

I wouldn't rat on a fellow pilot....... but it does sometimes irritate me to see some 'fly boy' flying without due care and attention....

Rgds
EA:)

[long final]

englishal, sorry, can't agree. Sounds, IMHO, like Cat.S got some grief and is trying to pass it on. When will these people realise, that when they expect to get on a plane and fly on holiday, the drivers had to learn somewhere. Lazy eights, wingovers etc., performed @ 1500-2500ft is very courteous. Overhead Wigan is also CTA [D] 2500-3500. Perfectly legal. What is the problem??:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[stiknruda]

I really wish that Cat S had Mrs Mackenzie for a neighbour. Dear old Mrs Mac lives 3 miles by road from my farm, Mrs Mac's old man was RAF aircrew just after the last big "show", Mr & Mrs Mac both farm their 120 acres. Mrs Mac's house is well over a mile away from my threshold.

Mrs Mac complains about everything. Smelly pigs, talking turkeys, muck spreading, 4m wide combines/pea viner's using up her road, the Red Arrows, Formation Foto and his mates, Search and Rescue helos and about twice a year phones me just after some hotshot has beaten up the field or had the temerity to perform stunting (aeros) within her hearing-aid zone.

These folk are so tiresome - I wish her no ill but the sooner she shuffles off her mortal coil or moves up to CatS's domain the better!

And yes, I hate droning aircraft, too. I also hate soccer but don't really see the need for it to be banned.


Stik

[ppl(a)]

I'm with you englishal -

"Blimey GoatGruff,

Bit strong wasn't it. If you read the post again without the red 'rant' haze infront of your eyes, you'll see that it is not Cat.S thats complaining but the neighbours"

Oh, by the way, sticknrudda, I also hate football, but unlike you I AM wholly in favour of banning it, taxing it, making it a capital offence, make public broadcasting of matches punishable by fine ... you get the idea.

[poetpilot]

When will you guys who think you can fly anywhere, everywhere and do anything wake up to a simple fact.....

There's lots of NIMBYs in the UK, and when they get mad they get very organised.

There are relatively few pilots and we are badly organised to defend ourselves.

Therefore, rather than meet noise complaints with aggression and "we'll do what we b***dy well like" responses, I suggest that for the sake of the long term future of GA everyone uses discretion and consideration. At least until we can be confident that we can defend ourselves competently (which we can't at the moment).

Yes, I'm a GA pilot of many years standing, yes I support GA and your personal freedom. But we are in a virtually untenable position. No, I dont like it either, and if I could emigrate I would. But in the meantime I just use sense to keep out of trouble.

Oh, and 1500-2000 is not, IMHO a sensible or considerate height to do aeros near (not necessarily over) housing. Climb to 4000 and do 'em over Rivington or the moors. Unless of course you are so experienced that you know a lot better than us, in which case why do 'em near Wigan?

[Cat.S]

Wow! Time to put on my steel helmet again. Wigan takes up quite a large area, apart from the actual town itself, from Standish in the north to Ashton in the south and the part I live in is right next to Haydock Park and very definitely in the LLR, which GoatGruff, you should know has a MAXIMUM height of 1250' on the Manchester QNH. Above that you are in potential conflict with the big boys using LPL and MAN.

Due to the high volume of traffic, much of which is microlight and does not always show up on MAN or LPL radar, the LLR is not the place to carry out training manoevres, especially in the part which most southbound aircraft are using to transit the corridor, as it has the clearest visual reference points.

Now I don't class what this pilot was dong as aeros, but my neighbours certainly did and weren't happy about this happening over their built-up area. Four of them actually moaned at me about it, including one who is a former PPL, who said quote "What is that **** nutter up to?" We get a lot of aircraft over here around 1000' and to my knowledge no-one objects to that. I actually enjoy it. They do however draw the line at a lot of full throttle manoevres.

What GA needs in this area is positive PR. If pilots actually thought about the ramifications of their actions then this would be easier to achieve.

[I have control]

I once took a complaint from a farmer after an air show that the Tornado that had been displaying had been hovering over his farmyard. He was quite emphatic about the hovering, and no there wasn't a Harrier in the show!

[poetpilot]

Even if it HAD been further north at Wigan, it is still an incredibly unwise thing to do in that area. The LLR is busy with north and south traffic, some of which doesnt report to Mcr app therefore doesnt know what traffic is around. The north-south traffic at Wigan is either climbing or descending to exit or ingress the LLR.

Anyone with local knowledge should know this.

Hence my remark that even if the person flying the a/c was experienced and competent to carry out those manoeuvres, they should not have been doing them in the Wigan area.

..but over Haydock? absolutely pathetic. Probably someone showing off to a friend, relative or neighbour? Nice one...NOT.

[dedstikyfingerz]

Whay! go for it! Best complaint i 'ad was a bloke recknin a plane droped oil all over his consevertory. After a visit from me and an alarm being raised we discovered it was bird SH** from a flock of crows who'd eaten berrys!! the moaning neighbor had his hand in it.

P.s i like moaning neighbors, especialy when the airfield theyve tried so hard to shut down turns into an asylum seeking village with uranium storage available! That'll teach em!
and get more aerobabes flying!!:eek: :cool:

Not going to encourage what you say to do. PPRuNe positively discourages that kind of thing.

[pilotwolf]

Maybe we should all try marching on London and bringing the capital to a stand still :D

Lets show this and potential goverments that GA has been neglected and penalised with airfield closed down and stupid regulations imposed on us. :mad:

As our Tony, (I have no political interest, opinions nor give a toss about who is in power), is so pro the US perhaps we could persuade him to let the CAA run aviation in a similar way to the FAA.

...awakes from dream - back to reality. :o

[formationfoto]

Taking on the debate from marching on London, how about a mass fly in to Heathrow at about 9.00 in the morning. We could all meet up at various VORS around the M25 and form a balbo into 27!.

And before you start I have seen crazuier ideas in this forum.

OK I know there may be one or two regulatory issues to consider and meybe there will be a bit of a backlash against GA but we would certainly get some coverage for our argument that GA needs greater protection of facilities and have as much right to make a (small) noise footprint which is often no greater than those riding around and around on bl**dy lawnmowers.

Just off to take my medication.