Heathrow "incident"?

[sanjosebaz]

Any idea what caused Heathrow to go to single runway ops today (just before 1200 UTC today)?

09L was allegedly blocked by a BA a/c who had "trouble" with landing; forcing single ops on 09R, with all the hassles that entails.

Weather was atrocious - probably a factor?

[Jet II]

From Ananova

BA jet in emergency landing

A British Airways jet with 140 passengers on board was forced to make an emergency landing at Heathrow Airport. An airline spokeswoman said it developed a hydraulic problem believed to affect the steering.

Flight 1483 was flying in to the London airport from Glasgow when the pilot became aware of the problem in the hydraulics system. He radioed ahead and fire engines were scrambled to the runway as a precaution, the spokeswoman said. The plane landed safely and on schedule around 12.55pm but remained on the runway for around 20 minutes until it was towed off.

The BA spokeswoman said: "Pilots are trained for this eventuality and carried out an emergency landing. "The fire engines were called as a precaution and no-one was injured." The runway was closed for around 20 minutes causing minimal delays to other flights, a spokeswoman for Heathrow said.

Story filed: 15:34 Monday 9th September 2002

[sanjosebaz]

Thanks - surprised to hear that the delays were "minimal" though. We were next in line for 09R when it happened and we had to wait for 5 planes to land. Such is life, but the queue behind really built up!

[foghorn]

There's this strange phenomenon concerning aviation and journalism. As soon as any aircraft is reported about in the press, no matter how complex the type, greater than 5,700kg MAUW, requiring two flight crew, whatever, as soon as a journo writes about it, it automatically becomes a single pilot operation.

I can't fathom it myself. Can journalists count beyond one? One... Two... There. Easy.

[Seriph]

And of course it's always an EMERGENCY

[Balooo]

Might have been nice if the pilot HAD radioed ahead saving the 4 aircraft established behind him from being sent around and the subsequent delays while they, and the other 6 or so already off the stacks, were landed.

[747400CA]

"The plane landed safely and on schedule around 12.55pm but remained on the runway for around 20 minutes until it was towed off."

While I only visit LHR occasionally, I am puzzled why it would take 20 minutes to tow the aircraft clear of the runway.

Seems to me that

prior coordination with company could have made a tug ready and available;

coordination with airport emergency services could have placed the tug in close proximity to the runway; and

coordination w/ ATC could have put the a/c in holding until all was ready

resulting in a runway closure of less than 5 minutes to get the a/c clear and on the way to the gate - and probably no news story as a consequence...

...or am I being unrealistic?

[A300Man]

Are you being serious? Do you really expect BA at Heathrow to be able to co-ordinate anything that has more than two factors?

That would be too easy. They prefer to complicate matters beyond reasonable belief, just to get up the ire of the rest of us.........it's like BA claim that Heathrow is theirs and no-one else's sometimes!!

And yes, 747 400CA, I also don't understand why the Airbus didn't stay in the stack for a while longer whilst simple issues on the ground were co-ordinated.

I remember a few years back when the night curfew at LHR meant that aircraft arriving before 06:00hrs had to shut down engines immediately upon exit from the runway and be towed by tug to the terminal. This happened to me several times when arriving from Asia on SQ, VS and even BA. And it could be done in much less than 20 minutes.

[Balooo]

Nice idea but as I said before the first anyone knew of a problem, at least from an ATC point of view was after the guy had landed and couldn't turn off of the runway, hence the delays.....

[M.Mouse]

Now let me see the crew thought 'Well lets land and block the runway, stuff everybody else', because that is what is being implied.

I wasn't there but whatever you all might think I don't believe any of my colleagues would deliberately land and cause massive disruption if it could have been avoided.

And to answer the ridiculous assertion that it must be possible to organise a tug to go half way across the airfield in under 20 minutes, I would like to see any airline try it.

This board becomes filled with more and more uninformed, prejudiced and stupid speculation by the hour.

[411A]

Hmmm, seems many here believe Superior Airways have stuffed it up, once again...hardly surprising, with BA's generally condecending attitude. :rolleyes:

[Hot Wings]

411A - I think that you've just proved M.M's last point!

[Hand Solo]

Oh I'm confused!

The news reports say the pilot radioed ahead and fire engines were waiting. Others say the pilot [singular] didn't radio ahead. Perhaps he called the fire services direct and bypassed ATC? If not, then who lined up four aircraft behind an aircraft that couldn't vacate the runway? Could somebody who actually knows the facts please elucidate?

[Bumblebee]

a few points- firstly, it was a 737-400, not an airbus. Secondly, apparently Hyd System A lost pressure after they were already fully configured - gear down, Flap30 - at around about 1000'radio.
Therefore everybody involved had very little notice as to what was going on - and i imagine the guys were pretty busy troubleshooting the problem. Give 'em a break! Okay? Or how about job well done guys!

[Captain Numpty]

Regardless...........

Well done to all those concerned

C.N.

[Notso Fantastic]

Lordy Lordy! PPrune AGAIN succumbs to the idiots, the 'shoot from the hip' opinion makers, the 'anti- anything BA does is wrong' brigade, and those of all three classifications (411A)! What a dreadful reflection on Pprune this thread is! I think it has reached the stage where Professional Pilots will be turned off this bulletin board because of all the idiots spouting off about things they know nothing about, or the alleged 'experts' with chips (heavy chips!) on their shoulders!

[Bobby Johnson]

Whenever an incident or accident happens, this forum is full of those with 'bright' ideas with little or no background information.

Before making these comments think about what you as the pilots on this aircraft would think if you were reading this thread.

I am sure that the crew did the best they could and if flying the aircraft comes before thinking about those that are waiting to takeoff then, well done to the crew for getting their priorities right.

Having flown for BA on the 737 I know most of the crews, I have no doubt they did their best. Why is it that some people insist on slating BA pilots, from the ones that I have met they are all generally good blokes with good intentions and dont deserve the crap dealt out by those that dont know them.

Before anyone asks, I left BA because I was bored and wanted a new challenge, I now fly the BBJ privately so I do know what it is like on the other extreme of flying a 737. If I was pushed to say what I missed most about airline flying it would be the people I used to work with!!!

[El Grifo]

Blah Blah Blahdy Blah,

Whiney Blahdy Blah !!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool: :rolleyes:

[Notso Fantastic]

Well, thank you for those comments Mr. Ballantyne! You appear to be trying to illustrate my point! I note YOUR connection with Professional Pilots is that you have probably, at some point in time, taken pictures of aeroplanes.

Precisely what are you trying to convey with that posting in the PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOUR NETWORK ?

[411A]

Nothing against BA pilots in general, Notso Fantastic, as long as they remain in BA.
BUT, get some of them after early retirement from BA with another aircarrier, the situation generally changes.
If I had a dollar for every time i've heard...."but we would never do it THAT way in BA...." from these folks, would be able to afford the JetStar that sits in the next hangar.
OK guys in the bar you understand...just get 'em in a slightly different company with local F/O's and the situation rapidly goes downhill...and I have watched this "beaks well above ground effect" phenomenon since 1978.
My opinion anyway...don't suspect you will agree, but hey, that's OK.

[El Grifo]

Well Mr Anonymous, Notso Fantastic, Although I am loath to take the bait on this, Oh Sooo "PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOUR NETWORK" I get so tired of seeing perfectly honest, informative threads, turning into whiney elitist moans from simple Pilots

What the hell do you think you are, a brain surgeon

Read your post again from a different angle. QUOTE:-

"Lordy Lordy! PPrune AGAIN succumbs to the idiots, the 'shoot from the hip' opinion makers, the 'anti- anything BA does is wrong' brigade, and those of all three classifications (411A)! What a dreadful reflection on Pprune this thread is! I think it has reached the stage where Professional Pilots will be turned off this bulletin board because of all the idiots spouting off about things they know nothing about, or the alleged 'experts' with chips (heavy chips!) on their shoulders"

Wake up, the debate is over, The "Loonies" are here to stay.

[Notso Fantastic]

Well Grifo- the answer is in your own hands! Spend more time in the PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHERS RUMOUR NETWORK and perhaps stop making inane (and abusive) postings in a forum you really have no connection with!

411- you really have a chip on the shoulder about the majors, don't you? Your limited experience of retired BA (in particular) pilots doesn't bear out well with the experience of Far East carriers who make extensive use of prematurely retired BA pilots (age 55 max). Your postings show perhaps excessive prejudice- you carry on blindly in the knowledge that ONLY you are right about all the majors, and anything against pilots must be right. I think you enjoying 'tweaking' professional pilots for your own amusement no?

[DistantRumble]

Nice to see NSF making his usual well-thought out and tolerant, reasoned posts.

[Notso Fantastic]

Thank you sir! I don't tolerate fools easily. Why so many people so totally uninvolved with the profession have so much to say here mystifies me. How goes the Irish aviation scene?

[El Grifo]

Dear NSF, I see that the concept, or use of IRONY, totally ecapes you. Have a nice day, or should I say, SMILE

:) :) :) :) :)

[Notso Fantastic]

And a nice day to you too Sire! Nice to see a posting that is intelligible rather than:
>>Blah Blah Blahdy Blah,

Whiney Blahdy Blah !!! <<

This thread, along with that appalling other one about emergency landing at London ex Cardiff maintenance, have really only served to denigrate professional pilots careers. The criticism of continuing away from Cardiff without one non essential hydraulic system (out of four), this alleged 'emergency landing at London' with a hydraulic failure, it all seems to bring the prejudices out of the woodwork:
411A's >>Hmmm, seems many here believe Superior Airways have stuffed it up, once again...hardly surprising, with BA's generally condecending attitude.<< (Is this person ill? Quite a judgement considering he knows hardly anything of the incident. A real professional would not have leapt in with both feet quite so prematurely)

It's all a bit professionally demeaning to pilots who are only doing their best and trying to do the RIGHT thing knowing their actions will stand up to scrutiny by their superiors. It used to be that incidents had a professional investigation before stones were cast. Now, instant Pprune judgement takes place on the sparsest of information followed by amateur criticism of professionals before the sun goes down. Perhaps if more people were prepared to WAIT a few days before firing off a broadside it would help. But in the meantime, we can all expect types like 411A to leap in without a thought (but a lot of prejudice!).

[411A]

Actually Notso...
It was at a rather large Far Eastern carrier many years ago that I first ran into the Superior Airways crowd...and it would appear that they haven't changed all that much in the meantime.:rolleyes:
You personally appear to be a perfect example.;)
Still, most everyone is entitled to their opinion...you included.

[boris]

In my previous life and the one before that, I have employed many ex-BA pilots, both long haul and short. This over a period of around twenty-five years.
Some may have held pre-conceived ideas that these pilots would indeed turn out to be a somewhat condescending lot, out to teach the industry a few lessons.
The fact of the matter is that these chaps were, to a man, excellent employees who were held in high regard by all who came into contact with them, both in the air and on the ground and served as role models for many a young co-pilot..

[apfds]

I have to agree with Boris.I first came into contact with the 'retired' BA pilots back in the '70's and they all gave good value. Over the years that has not changed. 411 normally comes out with reasonably sensible comments, but this time it smacks of sour grapes.

[Magplug]

El Grifo?

Stick to taking wedding photos Snappy.

We won't tell you how to do your job if you return the favour.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Nice photos though..............:eek: :eek: :eek:

[411A]

afpds

How then do you explain the less than 40% retention rate (within 4 months) for the ex-Superior Airways guys in, for example SaudiArabian for the period 1980-1990? Having been involved in training there, I should know.

Strange that the Brits who survived there were nearly all ex-independent airlines' guys....BUA, DanAir...gosh, even ex-GF, altho that was a stretch.
Could it be that they just could "get along better"?
The Saudis' could see thru the ex-BA guys in five minutes and left them twisting slowly, slowly in the wind.

[Trident Sim]

Question:

How then do you explain the less than 40% retention rate (within 4 months) for the ex-Superior Airways guys

Answer:

Having been involved in training there, I should know.

Anyone else begin to suspect there might be a connection? :D

[overstress]

411A:

The only thing twisting here is you matey

[Notso Fantastic]

This man is ill! He has a deep paranoia about ex-BA, a lifelong antipathy towards all majors, US and everywhere else. A sad, sad man as anyone will see if you go back over his postings. Such people can never be silenced, their paranoia goes too deep. He has, no doubt, done a lot of harm to peoples' careers if he has allegedly been involved in training. Leave him in his belief that somehow BA pilots are 'substandard', BA pilots are somehow 'evil', and US major pilots are whatever he thinks they are. I don't know what aviation backwater he has ended up in, but hopefully his involvement with it will inevitably soon end! Retirement looms 411?

[Magplug]

I have a theory that 411a is not in fact who he professes to be. He is in reallity another professional photographer committed to making the aviation profession a safer place.

As for the ex-BA rantings....... Having been to Saudi Arabia I must confess it is not a place I would choose to make my home.

[411A]

To be absolutely fair and "unbiased":rolleyes:, will have to say that the older BA guys I met in SQ in the late 70's (especially the training Captains) were first rate. At that time SQ trained to proficiency in the aeroplane (B707) which resulted in 'round about forty circuits until the new F/O's could handle outboard engine failures at rotation correctly every time. By the time I saw these guys in line training their aircraft handling skills were very good, thanks to these folks.
Having said this, BA at that time was offering early retirements to rather younger Captains and these guys were really something to behold...and from the stories from some of the local F/O's...not liked at ALL.
But of course folks like Notso Fantastic would have no idea, having never worked anywhere else....;)

[Notso Fantastic]

You have a paranoia (or neurosis- I'm not too up on mental illness!) second to one other person! Take pleasure in the fact that bad though you are, that complete idiot (and charlatan) Guvnerd, is (or thankfully 'was') ACTUALLY WORSE than you!

[411A]

Oh thank you...Notso, for your very "kind words"...:p

[Notso Fantastic]

Well perhaps you could take them to heart and question where and why deep down inside you, you feel such hostility to retired BA pilots, US major pilots, in fact pilots of every shape, creed and colour that don't fit your ideal profile (one with an internet ID involving the following numbers 1, 1, 4, and a letter 'A'). Trying to be constructive rather than firing nasty missives in over 1500+ posts at every possible excuse to all and sundry might help.

[El Grifo]

Come along now children.

Bedtime !!!

[DistantRumble]

Ha ! Ain't the irony wonderful.

[Notso Fantastic]

Yes- I thought you two would rear your ugly heads- the professional photographer and the resident of Dublin (which also has an airport). Perhaps you could explain your apparent fascination with involving yourself so deeply in a forum that is of no concern to you professionally? It really seems quite bizarre to spend so much time here.

[JW411]

Notso Fantastic:

I have been away and have only just read this thread. (Mind you, it is now quite difficult to figure out what the original thread was all about - as is usual!).

I used to have a great fishing friend and he used to refer to folks like you as graylings. Knowing nothing about fishing, I asked for an explanation. It appears that the grayling will always rise to the bait and when it comes to conversational fly-casting you would most certainly fit into my friend's classification in spades. You really have exceeded yourself this time and 411A must be just about beside himself with glee. You really must learn to sit among the cool stones at the bottom of the pool and mouth politely.

Moving on to some of the previous comments, I have also worked with some ex-BA pilots who were the best you could ever wish to fly with. I have also met some absolute pillocks. I would agree with 411A that the good guys were generally youngsters.

I note that ex-BA pilots have been mentioned previously on this thread as working for SV, SQ etc after they retire at 55. Why do they find this necessary? I was always lead to believe that one could retire happily and comfortably at 55 on the BA final salary scheme?

Hand Solo and the like always express surprise that by not supporting BA pilots in their endeavours we are simply "lowering the ante" for the pilot profession. What effect do they imagine that these ex-BA pilots have on Terms and Conditions for those of us who are trying to better our lot in the likes of SV, SQ or Virgin for that matter? The latest I have heard is that you lot want to move into BACE at the age of 55. When are the youngsters in this country going to get a chance?

Two words spring to mind; hypocrisy and greed.