Cross-channel check anybody?

[Mak]

I'm planning to do a cross-channel check t/o from Denham but would like to share the cost. Anybody interested in the next few weeks? (before the channel closes down for the winter :) )

mak

[Keef]

Channel closes down for the winter? Oh dear - yet another NOTAM I seem to have missed :(

Enjoy your cross-channel. Going solo, not with an instructor? My original club insisted on ain instructor sitting, grinning, in the right hand seat for the first one.

I was surprised how the horizon disappeared as I passed Dover, even on a nice, clear day.

[Wycombe]

...at my Club, they now like you to have an IMC for x-channel.

May sound a bit OTT, but having seen that sea/sky merge that Keef mentions a few times myself, some basic Inst Flying skills will make you feel a lot happier when it happens to you just after you have coasted out....

[stiknruda]

wx permitting Fri - myself and a few other single seat aerobatic competitors are off to the Channel Islands via La France for a w/e of contained partying.

For most of us it will be a first (and hopefully second!) channel x-ing but one of the younger dudes has done it a few times so should keep us all correct.

We are rv-ing at Manston 1100H Friday.

There is already talk of traversing la manche inverted a la Nigel Reddish in the late seventies.


Stik:D

[QDMQDMQDM]

... at my Club, they now like you to have an IMC for x-channel


I don't have much experience at all of sea crossings myself, but lots of people do cross the channel quite safely in aircraft with only partial panel. Isn't the view above just another example of our safety over-obsessed society? How many accidents, besides John Kennedy, have there been due to disorientation over sea? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, nor that it doesn't happen easily, nor that it isn't potentially dangerous. But let's have some perspective: a Flex wing microlight has flown around the world, for God's sake! Did he have dual vacuum pumps and perhaps an electrical back-up artificial horizon too?

QDM

(And I write this as someone who opted to stick an artificial horizon in my own aircraft because I do want to take it cross-channel.)

[englishal]

I don't think one should be FORCED to have an IMC rating to cross the channel, but I have been across a number of times, and the horizon / sky distinction was crap and I was relying on instruments. In fact one time I was convinced a piece of rock was Jersey, and its only becasue we were tracking in on JSY that I realised it wasn't. Couldn't see any other land around. (apparently the bit of rock is a small island that some bloke has been banished to by a court of law, for shagging sheep or something)

Having said that, at the time I wasn't instrument rated and made it alive ok. Could get a bit worrying though if you're not expecting it.

Cheers
EA:)

[sharpshot]

:rolleyes: Oh Please - this is a bit like saying "I'm not going over water in a single" and we all know the engine doesn't know whether it's over land or water:confused:

You can end up with equally poor visual cues over land - so does said flying club require all post PPL students to pass IMC before all X-country flights.

And when did our European relatives recognise an IMC rating :p

Good idea to take someone who's been before though. Whilst x-ing the channel is no hassle, apprehension can set in when you contemplate the unknown.

I remember approaching Le Touquet on a miserable day and suggested that safety - as I am used to it, would normally dictate the App & Rwy lighting being selected. So at half a mile out, TWR selected the lighting at all of about 2% brilliancy and added about £28 to the landing fee.......:mad: :mad:
Apart from that one occasion, X Channel still makes for a great day out.
Closed for winter....hope not!

[Aussie Andy]

I fly at the club which I believe is being referred to, BAFC, and while I agree its a bit on the cautious side, I think it also has some merit.

To clarify: the club's standing orders require not that you have an IMC, but that you have completed 10 hrs of instrument training. Otherwise, you need someone on-board in the front seat whilst over water who does have this.

I think the caution is a good thing overall, even though they go a bit further than other clubs. Having recently experienced extremely bad vis. off the coast of Guernsey (with a different club) I think there's merit in the caution - its just a question of degree.

Anyway, anyone unhappy about this could just go and get checked out at another club and rent from there if unhappy with it - so where's the problem?

BAFC rocks! My regards to all the instructor that make it such a great place to learn to fly :)

[Keef]

Hey Stik!

I have this vision of Cusco and Keef right-way-up, and Stik and buddy upside down, arriving at Le Touquet as a formation-of-four.

Next Spring, maybe?

[CharlieTango]

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough. My club (TPC at Deham) insists that people fly across with an instructor before they rent out a plane for that sort of trip. Thing is you only need to do it one way. So if I can find another like minded pilot we can both slash costs in half.

On another note I agree with the requirement for instruments experience, though IMC may be ott (it'd certainly put a damper on my planned vacations). I was flying over the sea in Portugal a couple weeks ago and had to use instruments to keep level. And that on a clear day with hardly any cloud.

Mak

[Dave Gittins]

I did the same X-channel check about 6 weeks ago from Fairoaks to Le Took and back. My club, LTFC, never mentioned IMC ratings or any such. Two of us first-time-to-France lads shared the cost and the flying and one of the other club members who is instructor rated, sat in the RH seat.

To be fair, the first time you launch into the unknown off Dungeness, on a lovely July day, with what appears to be about 1 km visibility it is daunting. As a man who wants to keep body and soul together, I spent a lot of time listening to 124.6 building a picture of where all the other ******s were, as I was damn certain I couldn't have seen them, try as I may.

IMC rated - no, my basic instrument skills from PPL training got me through OK (nothing better than the real thing to teach those .... IR departs on dark, low base, winters nights from Luton, with ILS and SRA approaches were part of my PPL training .... to fly when I had the time and learn everything I could.) and should be enough for anybody .. provided you remain legal.

I would always advocate taking somebody who has done it before and if you still don't feel happy don't do it alone until you do.

Enjoy the trip, but above all, make enough time to go into the town. It wa a bit anticlimatic trying to while away an hour in the Le Took terminal by the coke machine before setting off back Make it waorthwhile !!!

[Ludwig]

Whilst QDM3 is correct that all sorts of stuff is flying over water daily with little or no kit, I don't see why we should whinge if, when hiring someone elses a/c they make some stipulation as regards what skill levels should be possessed by the hirer. If you own your own aircraft then fine, do what you like, but if you rent you have to obey the rules set by the person who owns it.