Crp-5

[rodger the cabin boy]

COULD ANYONE TELL ME HOW MANY CRP-5 QUESTIONS
WOULD YOU GET IN THE NAV GEN FLIGHT PLANNING EXAMS

THANKS:)

[Gin Slinger]

Enough to mean you really have to had mastered it.

I balls'd up Gen Nav first time largely through being blasé about the amount of practice necessary reach the required standard of speed and accuracy.

Don't worry, it's not difficult though.

[oxford blue]

Approximately 25% of the Gen Nav ATPL exam is CRP5!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I mean that quite sincerely, folks.

There is no way you can hope to pass Gen Nav unless you are really slick and good with the CRP5.

Don't take the view that "near enough will be good enough". It WON'T!!!

You may think that I'm being a bit demonstrative. I'm not. This is a carefully considered and serious post.

Get good at it and you'll pick up 25% of the marks in 25% of the questions. This means that you only have to pick up 2/3 of the marks on the remaining questions.

Too many students don't really believe this. Not surprisingly, they fail.

Gin Slinger speaks the truth. Rodger the Cabin Boy, the answer is "about 25%".

[Gassbag]

They're right.
I sat Gen Nav last week and it was about that figure on pure CRP work. Then there's the questions when the use of CRP is needed.
Some of the dedicated questions are soooo tight on the possible answers. Get the rotating windows nice and smooth so you.re not fiddling backwards and forwards trying to adjust by one degree. :eek:

[Tinker]

They Crappy-5 isn't that dificult to master honest. I found it's something that's best self taught in the arm chair, wizz wheel in one had, manual in the other and a cold beer close by.
For what it's worth, in my opinion as far as the wind graph side goes, lose the wind arm (snap it off it just wastes time) and use the wind up technique for WCA, never failed for me.

[Hap Hazard]

Tinker, are you sure you really intended to snap off the wind arm on your crap 5 and wasnt in a ring pulling frenzie with all those beers! (incidently mine aint got a wind arm, but does have cursor arm, dont want the poor chap going really nuts and pulling off the drift lines!)
No wonder you use "the wind up meathod", just dont be down wind when Tinkers about.
Good Luck cabin boy, I am sure I cant add anything constructive as its been a while since I did my exams and a little thing called JARS got in the way, but from memory oxford blue has got about the percentage right.
Look at this way, if you cant drive a crap 5 do you seriously think that you will have a hope in passing the exams anyway.
Its not difficult honest and it does make you think about sensible units instead of just blindly copying an answer from some electronic gizmo, a skill that comes in real use when you are up there in the blue....incidently I still carry mine at all times in my flight bag, gives me something to do on those long boring 1 hr sectors!

[Field In Sight]

I've not got a problem using the CRP-5 (Well a crappier ARC-1) and it does me fine apart from not being able to work out compressibility. Any questions on compressibility?

But can you take in your electronic (non-programmable etc etc) calculator as well.

I prefer to use that for working out fuel weight, distance/time etc type questions.

[The Boy Lard]

Field in Sight

If my ever fading memory serves me well, the only place you will get compressibility questions is in the Instruments exam.

And yes you CAN take you non-programmable calculator into the exams, but dont be surprised if they check it first!

Cheers

TBL:D

[Send Clowns]

Not only are there compressibility questions in the exam, but the answers to all the flight computer questions are all calculated on a CRP-5. Since others may come up with slightly different answers and the CAA has admitted that the answers are too close together for some CRP-5 questions you may get the wrong answers with your ARC-1. It is worth around £75 to buy a CRP-5. The alternative may be an extra two months and a £50 resit fee!

Also the CRP-5 is an excellent computer, with many useful notes printed on it reminding you of how to solve the problem - for example the instructions of when and how to apply compressibility! So much that it is almost cheating to use one in the exam :D

Best of luck.

Send Clowns
[Gen Nav instructor, BCFT]

[laurie]

Send Clowns,

Quote -

"with many useful notes printed on it reminding you of how to solve the problem - for example the instructions of when and how to apply compressibility! So much that it is almost cheating to use one in the exam

Best of luck.

Send Clowns
[Gen Nav instructor, BCFT]"

Could you describe some of your tricks, cues etc already on the CRP-5, as I have read you stating this before. Give us some scenarios (ie talk us through it) if you get the time.

Cheers,


Laurie.

[john_tullamarine]

There is only one "trick" to using a nav computer ... that is to practise the techniques until they become second nature and totally automatic .. there are no short cuts, however.

[oxford blue]

If you do have a difficulty with CRP5, Pooley have produced a CBT CD-ROM for use with your own home computer, with good graphics and with sound. It explains it all very clearly. It costs £23:50. Everyone I know who has tried it has found it very useful. It has also been well reviewed by the aviation press.

I should point out that we at OAT must declare an interest. We created it for Pooley and we make a profit on every one sold. You may therefore wish to bear that in mind when reading the above recommendation.

[FlyingForFun]

laurie,

I think what SC is refering to is the many hints which are printed on the CRP5. Can't remember how many ticks to move the compressability window? No problem - the formula's printed next to the window. Can't remember whether the index on the wind side is track or heading? Printed next to the index is the word "heading", which is what you'll put there if you use the wind down method. Can't remember which speed goes on the inside and which on the outside when converting from IAS to TAS? Well, it's marked on the wheel itself, just look for the marking. And so on...

But that's no substitute for practicing enough that you can use the whiz-wheel without thinking about it. Time is quite tight in some exams, and if you spend 10 minutes having to figure out how to use your CRP 5 in the exam, you won't have time to finish.

FFF
-------------

[Tinker]

I hate to tell you this HapHazard but it was indeed the wind arm I snapped off, and quite intentionally. Having used what my experience showed to be a superior product to the Crappy5, I spent a few weeks persevering with the superfluous piece of plastic (the wind arm not the crp5) but the final decision was made, it had to go. It was removed as it was, based on a fair trial, nothing more than a waste of space. (Although it did pain me to do so as I had spent 70+ notes on it). Again I had compared the wind up/wind down method over a period of time and based on my experience, weighing up the pros and cons I found the former to be quicker and more effective.
The cursor remained though as it did occasionally come in useful.
I was only putting across my own personal advise in my post above, the 'poster' is not obliged to take it and hopefully will not base his/her decision based solely on one opinion alone but will weigh up everyone’s responses and hopefully come up with a solution suitable to their own personal preferences.
If you wish to insult my opinions in future, I would be grateful if you would do by personal e-mail or private message. I will consider your opinions and may or may not get back to you.

[Hap Hazard]

Dear Me Tinker, Chill out, nobody is having a go at you, you must be having a bad day or the beer is flat?
Maybe the crap 5 has changed since I did my exams, but mine dont have a wind arm, but thats not to say yours or anyone elses doesnt.
I am not entering a slanging match or insulting you or anybody, remember this is a PROFESSIONAL Pilots Forum, I have better things to do with my time, the point is GOOD LUCK RODGER THE CABIN BOY, hope it all comes together for you.;)

[two speed prop]

Not sure about the crp-5 question but Rodger the cabin boy is the best user name I've seen.

[WX Man]

FS: One CRP-5. VGC. Used once, in a PPL/IR Navigation exam and nearly never again. £32 incl P&P.

I will also chuck in a few CD ROMs supplied by Eurocontrol for Radio Navigation and Met, if that person is interested (actually designed for student ATCOs but probably just as useful to student pilots too).

[Haul By Cable]

Referring to page five of my "'CRP' Computer Handbook"...

... The CRP-5W is similar to the CRP-5 but also has a wind arm.

I use dot down method.

Good luck Rodger! :)

[BigGrecian]

Does anyone know of any good places to buy a CRP-5. Looked on the net and the only place I've managed to find is : Pooleys (http://www.pooleys.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Flight_Computers_11.html) (Other than Ebay as well please!)

Cheers.

[EGBKFLYER]

Sure I remember my Gen Nav teacher saying wind down (dot up) is the only correct method. Wind up works but not in all cases - can anyone else remember this? Only sticks with me because I had to get out of wind up habit I was taught for PPL...

[Frank Furillo]

BigGrecian

www.airsupply.co.uk
www.pilotwasrehouse.co.uk
www.gps.co.uk
www.afeonline.com
www.transair.co.uk
and
www.sportys.com

FF

[oxford blue]

In answer to EGBKFLYER:

There are 3 main applications of the CRP-5 in JAA exams:

1) You have measured the track (course) off the map, you know the TAS you wish to fly, and you have a forecast wind.

2) You are flying a heading (for instance, a mandatory radar heading), you know your TAS, and you have a forecast wind.

3) You know your heading (after all,you're the bloody pilot - you should know that - you're flying it). You know the TAS - you've done some work during the flight planning process. You can find your track and groundspeed - either you pass over 2 successive fixes and you use them to find your track and groundspeed, or you've got INS, or (if it's a very old aeroplane) - you've got doppler. So now you've got heading and TAS and track and GS. Using the CRP-5 you can now find a wind. This will be more recent and more local than your met met forecast.

(Look - I know some of this stuff sounds a bit old-fashioned - but I don't write these exam papers - I just prepare students to answer them - OK?)

You will find an equal amount of all 3 types of the above questions above in the average JAA exam. If you want to pass - then you have to be equally good in answering all 3 types of question - because you can expect about 8 of each type to turn up in the exam. Do you want to throw the exam away because you haven't prepared 8 of the 24 of this type? As Dirty Harry says - do you feel lucky, punk?

No. So any sensible bloke (or girl) who wants to pass this exam will get equally good at all 3 types of question.

THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS WIND DOWN!!!!!!! Otherwise you have to learn wind up technique for finding heading from a known track, you can (just) by bodging it, find W/V from wind up, but there is NO neat and easy way for finding track from heading from wind up.

Honestly, guys and girls - use wind down technique for all 3 problems - it's so much easier, once you get used to, it works for all the problems, and it's consistent. Wind up method is only suitable for PPLs who are not going to go on to CPL or ATPL and only need to be able to find heading, given track. But it's useless for the other 2 problems - WHICH YOU WILL NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO EQUALLY WELL IF YOU WANT TO BECOME A CPL OR ATPL!!!!

Sorry about the capitals, but I see so many stupid opinions on this subject, and I haven't come to these conclusions lightly.

[G SXTY]

We had remarkably similar advice from BGS. :)

I managed to finish General Nav 5 minutes before the end - a lot of people didn't even finish it. I'd take two messages from that:

(1) You need to be able to work very quickly.
(2) You need to get the right answer - first time - because you certainly won't have time to go back and check everything.

To do this, you absolutely must be comfortable with the CRP-5. There is no way round it.

[give me an axe]

isn't this thread a bit long in the tooth, the surely the originator of the thread has done his nav exam by now, eh.....

[Tinstaafl]

When - and that's an 'only if my Jepp CR type isn't handy - I use a slide type whiz wheel, I prefer wind up for the standard 'find heading & GS' planning problem, and wind down for the others. I can do it the other why but why have to buggerise around shuffling the disk when 'wind up' gives the answer directly?

It's not difficult to remember. Of course it equally possible to learn to use wind up ALL the time. There is NO mathematical difference in the technique. But in general I prefer the method with fewer iterations, no matter whether it's wind up, or wind down.

Even better, get a CR type... :E

[tarbaby]

Blue, got to go with you! Who would want to use a method that would provide some of the answers, but not all. Nav instructor (Sharp) would have beheaded anyone using "wind up: method. That's for Americans 'cos they don't know better.

For any Nav student, mastery of the CRP5 is essential - Fflight Planning, Met, Instruments, it's great!! it's not cheating and gives all the answers.

The word is PRACTISE!!!!!!

[Tinstaafl]

Seems it's not the Americans who are ignorant. Wind up is perfectly capable of providing all the answers if you wish. Mathematically its the same triangle. You miss the point: Why use a method that requires iterations to derive the answer when there's a method that gives it directly? :hmm:

But then the 'ignorant Americans' tend towards the CR type which is simple to use for pretty much all problems, can solve a greater variety of problems AND in some cases requires fewer steps to calculate an answer than the CRP. It even fits in a pocket... :p