Best Approach to Blackpool from the South?

[Aussie Andy]

Weather permitting, I hope to be heading up to Blackpool for the first time next weekend (14th). Looking at the map (never had to fly on the "northern" map before!) the best approach seems to be through the Manchester low-level lane, then via Warton, using their LARS service. My questions are:

- Is Warton usually active and providing a service on the weekends?

- Should I plan to route through the Warton overhead, or presumably better to go around them, say via VRP "Marshside"?

- Has anyone ever hit the 2500' mast situated about 8 miles north of the 1250' low level route!? :eek: (no need to answer this one...)

- For variety, I'm thinking of routing back slightly differently, via the Liverpool Class D @ 1500' or higher if I can get through the overlying Manchester Class D at 2500' if possible, along the Mersey or over the Wirral. Is this easy to get permission for?

- Any other tips?

- And finally, will the weather be any good! :D

[Hooligan Bill]

Aussie Andy

- Is Warton usually active and providing a service on the weekends?

Warton are normally closed at weekends but do open on an ad hoc basis. Therefore any initial call inbound to Blackpool from the south should be made on the Warton frequency of 129.52 Mhz, irrespective of time.

- Should I plan to route through the Warton overhead, or presumably better to go around them, say via VRP "Marshside"?

The Warton ATZ is notified as being active H24, therefore permission should be sort before penetrating it. When Warton ATC are closed Blackpool are delegated to issue such a clearance. However, bear in mind that the Lancashire Police helicopter operates out of here H24 and part of the ATZ lies underneath the final approach for runway 28 at Blackpool.
If approaching via Marshside you need to remember that RAF Woodvale will almost certainly be active and there is a strong possibility that flying will be taking place at Birkdale Sands (Southport).

- Has anyone ever hit the 2500' mast situated about 8 miles north of the 1250' low level route!? (no need to answer this one...)

Not to my knowledge, but a few aircraft have it the hills and moors that surround the area. The mast and tops of the hills can often be obscured by low cloud/fog and you need to remember that there are a number of metal guy ropes attached to the mast which spread out over quite a large area.

- For variety, I'm thinking of routing back slightly differently, via the Liverpool Class D @ 1500' or higher if I can get through the overlying Manchester Class D at 2500' if possible, along the Mersey or over the Wirral. Is this easy to get permission for?

Routing through the Liverpool Zone over the Wirral is normally WAL VOR or Seaforth VRP to the Neston VRP not above 1500ft VFR. This routing takes you west of restricted area 311 which lies in the Liverpool Zone. Clearances above 1500ft on this route are difficult as there is Class A airspace starting at 2000ft both north an south of the zone in the WAL area. This airspace is however delegated to Liverpool ATC.

An alternative and popular routing is Kirkby or Aintree VRP, LPL, WHI NDB/Oulton Park VRP. While once again the clearance is not above 1500ft VFR, transits can be made not above 2500ft if Liverpool can get authorisation from Manchester to use this level south of the LPL. The airspace north of this point is once again delegated to Liverpool ATC.

.- Any other tips?

If you are using the LLC make sure you have a current map with the North/South allignment of the corridor on it. Despite having changed a couple of years ago there are a number of people who still fly the old orientation (NNW/SSE), resulting in them infringing the Liverpool Zone.

- And finally, will the weather be any good!

It is chucking it down at the moment

[Who has control?]

Andy,
I think you have made a monumental faux pas by announcing your intentions!

You have given The Weather Gods a whole weeks notice for them to muster their full meteorological arsenal to thwart your plans. Keeping quiet & hoping that they won't notice is the only answer :) :)


Hope you have a great flight :)

[Aussie Andy]

Thanks guys...

Hooligan Bill - very much appreciate all the input... sounds like there are no foolproof approaches from the South then, so I'll plan to remain outside the MATZ and give them a call to see whats on offer. Will also lookout for traffic associated with the other areas you mention, and will give the mast a W I D E berth! All this of course if there's a reasonable forecast on the day... whats the betting then, eh?! :)

Who has control? I feel you are right - the Wx Gods are doubtless lurking on the thread even as I type ;)

Thanks again,

[Hooligan Bill]

Aussie Andy

If you call Warton when you get north of the LLC you will find out if they are there. If they are not the MATZ is not active and it is only the ATZ you will need to avoid. If they are there they will give you MATZ penetration as there is not any other way of getting into Blackpool without routing well east or west over the sea.

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers!

[Aussie Andy]

Last question: which freq. is best to keep a listening watch on when on the low-level corridor? Livepool Approach or Manchester Approach?

[robione]

MANCHESTER 119.40. U CAN GIVE THEM A CURTESEY CALL, AND U CAN GET THE MANCHESTER QNH OFF THE ATIS TO MAINTAIN NOT ABOVE 1250 FT ON IT.:)

[Hooligan Bill]

Aussie Andy

The purpose of the LLC is to allow a/c to transit the Manchester CTR without the need for an individual ATC clearance. To this extent there is not really any frequency to keep a listening watch on as some pilots will be talking to Manchester Approach, some to Liverpool Approach, some to Barton Radio and others to no one at all. Therefore what ever frequency you are on it is not possible to get the 'full picture' of what is happening.

The corridor also lies underneath the final approach track to runway 27 at Liverpool. Therefore you are liable to see Liverpool instrument traffic above you on base legs and final which will be less than 1000ft above you.

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers robione and Hooligan Bill - perhaps I might be as well to just get the QNH from the Manchester ATIS then, and keep a listening watch on Liverpool & /or Manchester APP then, and concentrate more on looking out of the window!

[poetpilot]

Andy - re the low level route...

Listen on Mcr ATIS well before you get to Crewe...

Then listen for 5 mins on 119.4 and form a picture of how busy the Mcr workload is.

If it's not too busy, then on 119.4, call Mcr App tell them you're at Crewe for the low level route, descending to 1250 on (wotever the QNH is) and ask for a Flight Information Service. If they're busy they'll give you minimal instructions, if not too busy they can provide quite useful traffic info about who's in the LLR.

usual reporting points asked for by Mcr are.....

entering the LLR at Winsford
(sometimes) passing Northwich
reaching Warrington or Stretton


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Re: the mast, it's called Winter Hill. If you fancy a scenic diversion and the viz is good, route towards it and admire the reservoirs and hillside/moorland scenery just to the west of the mast, including a couple of mock castles up on the hill..... but also be aware that this area is Barton's local flying area, so keep a good lookout!
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On a nice day, you can get quite a lot of traffic between Warrington and Warton. Past warrington, mcr usually aren't interested, if Warton is active they are pretty good with GA, providing FIS, so don't be too apprehensive about calling them.

Enoy the Blackpool Hallucinations!

[Aussie Andy]

Thanks poetpilot - and don't worry, I've never been accused of being too timid to call LARS ;)

I really aprpeciate everyone's input. Of course some might say that as a competent (I hope!) PPL I should just go and get on with it, but I find this "local knowledge by proxy" lets me get my heard around things on the ground so that I find myself in marginal conditions or with some other problem on the day, I can be more sure-footed than I otherwise might have been in an unfamiliar environment.

Cheers again everyone, much appreciated...

[Who has control?]

Andy,

Have you looked out of the window lately?? Absolutely persisting down it be!! & I blame it all on you!! :) :)

(I think the forecast for the weekend is better though)

[Aussie Andy]

Yeah, sorry! :rolleyes:

[poetpilot]

Andy, I reckon your approach (of asking for local knowledge like this) is v.good, in that you're that little bit more familiar, therefore can devote a bit more brain space to the flying/enjoyment aspect.

The other side effect is that (rather conversely I think, but understndbly) when you talk to ATC services, the confidence comes over in your voice when you know what you're doing, therefore they take you on as more experinced and tend to give a good service...

... NOT that I'm ATC-bashing, they are as professional as they can be with everyone in my experience, but an "ummm....errrr...wossat..here-is-my-life-story-wot-do-i-do-now" radio call must get their teeth on edge - and you hear so many of 'em.

wx is looking up today...

[Cat.S]

Andy,
Reference your routing back, it tends be be very rare to get clearance through Manchester zone at any height, especially in the holiday season. The Mersey is the exit route for LPL VFR traffic if they are using 27 (90% of the time). If you decide to enter the Dee watch out for gliding from Sealand, which isn't always Notamed, although LPL (and Hawarden if they are open) usually warn about this.

If you return via the LLR going south you'll find it easier to stay on route than in the other direction. Although I've never seen it written down anywhere, traffic tends to 'keep right' in the LLR. Exit BPL at Marshside, route to M58/M6 VRP and then follow the M6 south to enter the LLR at Haydock Park. Follow the M6 south, keeping it on your right so you don't bust LPL's space, till the M6/M62 intersection near Burtonwood. As long as the big blue IKEA warehouse is to your right by at least half a mile you are still in the corridor. Then track just to the left of WHI/Oulton Park and you have left the LLR.

Weather's bound to be crap as I've booked a plane for Saturday! Local saying about Winter Hill (the big one with the mast) is if you can't see it it's raining and if you can see it, it's about to rain!