Autorotation Question - Video

[punkalouver]

Hi,

Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?

(20) Thenewarea51 on X: "Absolutely wild footage, this is a real world engine failure in a MD500 (Think Magnum P.I. helicopter) over Kauai, Hawaii out on a tour flight. You’ll probably have to watch this a few times but the video starts out with the helicopter under power and then the engine sound goes… https://t.co/tFVGhqypzx" / X (twitter.com)

[Sir Korsky]

I think most guys would try and save the machine too, if they had a choice. Now, are you talking with or without floats, that's the missing part ?

[IFMU]

Most of my experience is in an Enstrom. I'd rather just avoid the heavy landing. Less chance of drowning on land.

[Robbiee]

No sharks on the beach. :E

[JimEli]

I think most pilots would avoid the heavy landing on the beach by landing on the beach.

[twinstar_ca]

Am I the only one not seeing the video?? :uhoh:

[IFMU]

Hi,

Apologies if this accident had an earlier thread. As a fixed wing pilot, my question for this incident with a landing on the beach is......Would it be better to attempt a landing in shallow water to avoid the heavy landing that can damage one's back?

(20) Thenewarea51 on X: "Absolutely wild footage, this is a real world engine failure in a MD500 (Think Magnum P.I. helicopter) over Kauai, Hawaii out on a tour flight. You’ll probably have to watch this a few times but the video starts out with the helicopter under power and then the engine sound goes… https://t.co/tFVGhqypzx" / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1765212131505348673)
Hey there is a video.

[RVDT]

Am I the only one not seeing the video?? :uhoh:

On YT - https://youtube.com/shorts/R5F0b7WEl1U?si=j4Skss363wc31ec9

[mechpowi]

Helicopter landing gear and seats are designed to absorb loads on hard landing. Landing on water could be even harder on occupants backs because the landing gear can't absorb the impact. If the landing is harder than the landing gear can handle, then the helicopter will practically always roll over due to blades stiking surface and or tail boom and even a shallow water can lead to drowning. I would always pick hard flat land over water.

[Nescafe]

I would always pick hard flat land over water.

You are rarely presented with the choice.

[Hughes500]

he did a proper job there !

[[email protected]]

Punkalouver - unless you know the beach well, your assessment of shallow water depth is likely to be wrong - when helicopters enter the water they usually, as mechpowi says, roll over. Imagine a successful forced landing to the water and then being trapped upside down in a sinking helicopter - rather a lot of people have sadly died that way.

I, like others, have been trained for underwater escape and the first time you do it, it makes you realise that without training or specialist equipment (STASS) you probably won't get out.

If you have a choice then the beach is the better option

[mechpowi]

You are rarely presented with the choice.
Indeed, usually for me it would be a choice between shallow dark water and 30+ft tall thick trees! The water starts to seem more attractive...

[paco]

30 ft tall thick trees would be my choice* - if you landed correctly (tail first) you would at least stay on top of them. If you break your arm going into water you wouldn't be able to open the door, training or not.

*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.

[mechpowi]

I do agree with that advice paco! :ok:

[albatross]

30 ft tall thick trees would be my choice* - if you landed correctly (tail first) you would at least stay on top of them. If you break your arm going into water you wouldn't be able to open the door, training or not.

*Al Ascah at Remote Helicopters had done that 3 times in his career and always carried a length of rope after the first one.

Al Ascah…..great guy and one heck of a good pilot! Worked with him in France.

As to the video it is hard to see what happened at the bottom before and during the flare.
Anyone know why the engine failed…sounded like something broke with a big “thud”.

I had a very noisy catastrophic engine failure in a 206L at gross weight (Now Maximum Mass) …kinda got my attention…had to do a 270 from +- 700 agl to make a spot for a zero speed touchdown..0 wind hot day…bent the rear crosstube a bit.

[SASless]

The video reminds me of an engine failure I had on a 500D....one big "BANG" and it was all down hill from there....the end result was not a scratch on the aircraft and a long walk out of the woods in the dark in the wilds of Alaska where I was not on the top of the food chain.

As I see it...given the choice of sea water or a sandy beach.....I would endeavor to make a soft zero ground run landing to the beach. Even if it turned out all wrong and the helicopter rolls over....at least once the dust settles you should be able to crawl out, stand up, and dust yourself off since the helicopter is not strapped to your hind end as it sinks to the bottom of the sea. Even with open doors as seen in the video getting out underwater in a single gulp of air is not certain. Breathing is far less a problem in the salt air wafting across the beach. A less than stellar landing on the beach beats heck out of a great landing into the water.

As to landing in the trees....I always planned to arrive at the tree tops with all of the Rotor RPM you can gather....and use it to cushion your ROD into the trees. Picking the lowest, leafiest, softest limbed trees (without any stumps in the Landing Area) should prove beneficial. Having spent a lot of time over densely forested areas there was a lot of time that the only outcome was going to be a tree landing.

I disagree with the Tail first method....as I want the rotors to hold together and hopefully hang up on some strong limbs.....and prevent a very hard impact with the ground.

Fortunately I was only briefed on that method and never had an opportunity to try it out.

The Alaska thing was a tree landing of sorts....settled down in an Alder Patch which was more akin to a thicket than Trees and did so with bags or RPM which carried me over some real Trees and afforded a proper landing.

A very soft landing it was as the Alders cushioned the landing and it took some pruning to gain a safe clearance for the T/R Blades that fortuitously had no marks on them.

As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!

[albatross]

RE Tree Landings

First week on course
Scientifically minded student asks instructor:
”If the engine fails over a boreal forest do we aim for coniferous or deciduous trees?”
Grizzled, startled instructor with 1000s of hours of bush flying fixes him with an icy stare, holds hand out at knee level and barks: “LITTLE ONES!”

The student was call sign “Deciduous” for evermore.

As an aside I met a fellow who had a engine resign over the ocean in a front doors off 500 on skids. He said he didn’t even have time to kick the darn thing before it disappeared into the murky depths never to be seen again.
He and the front seat pax got out immediately but it took a long time for the 2 back seaters to pop to the surface. Fortunately an alert fishing boat rescued them all from the very cold water in minutes.

[ShyTorque]

As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!


Agreed. I was lucky enough to fly twin engined helicopters for the majority of my career. Never had an actual engine fail on me in 48 years, from start to finish, although I did have to shut a few down on a twin due to chip light warnings and on one occasion an oil overheat due to a stuck cooler thermostat.

[megan]

As always....Luck trumps skill every time. Being good is fine....being lucky is gooder!You remind me SAS of a chap who had a 206 go quiet on him while flying over the jungles of New Guinea, had a photo of the 206 ending up in a vertical position nose down with the cockpit four feet or so above ground level, a lawn dart that didn't.Never had an actual engine fail on me in 48 yearsSome have all the luck Shy, in all my days of singles only had one fail, it was expected because we took off with zero engine oil pressure, a necessity at the time because of being shot at, two failures in the 76C, No #2 first then a couple of years later #1 in the very same aircraft, we had a total of four failures with Turbomecas in the fleet of six - cause blades in the hot end departing because of fatigue at the blade root, no initiating factor found by the experts, we worked the aircraft hard in as much as many heavy take off/landings per hour.

[sycamore]

Here`s one I had following an engine surge and shutdown,N of Kuching(Borneo) in`65 en-route to HMS Bulwark,with some pilots to assist in a major troop transfer.Across the estuary going N,where the tail is pointing,about 1,2 miles,we turned towards this beach,as the other side was water /mangroves,and flew at about 80kts at 170=180 RRPM,(Range spd/Rpm),,and managed a hooly great steep turn and flare to recover.Unfortunately the sand was soft,nosewheels dug in,blade slapped the sand,then wiped the tail off...My pax were picked up by a WX and disappeared; I had to wait,chatting to the locals...
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1243x1608/tinkershill020002_1643__9612a30362e80859127ab6461c358a275e4a db1b.jpg
The aircraft was later lifted out by Belvedere,and fixed in about a couple of months..This was about 10 days after I`d had a tail-rotor and gearbox depart,and another F/LDG...

[Airmotive]

NTSB prelim is out.

Engine is fine. Fractured drive shaft.

[albatross]

NTSB prelim is out.

Engine is fine. Fractured drive shaft.

That would explain that big Bang.

[B2N2]

NTSB prelim is out.

Engine is fine. Fractured drive shaft.

Well that sucks beaucoup donkey

(Not a helo driver)

I think he did an outstanding job.
From a fixed wing only pilot so take it for what it’s worth.