Seeking advice on an ambitious plan to fly commercial

[bakerin]

It has come to light that I am ineligible for the CAA Class 1 certification following my attempts to rectify a failed medical assessment. Consequently, I find myself temporarily turning to instructing, a measure I'll elaborate on shortly. Regrettably, the prospect of commercial flight within the United Kingdom now eludes me. Nevertheless, I am able to secure a Class 2, allowing me the opportunity to pursue an instructor's license.

My strategic course from this point forward entails embarking on said path and, in due course, relocating to somewhere such as the United States to seek employment as an instructor, in hopes that the school will assist in the acquisition of a work visa. One compelling reason behind this decision stems from the lack of students in my current residence of Wales, UK. Even my father, who occupies a role as a PPL instructor at the preeminent flying school in Wales, finds himself constrained to part-time work due to the scarcity of students. It is my fervent hope that a move to America will present avenues for full-time employment.

As previously alluded to, my aspirations extend beyond instructing, encompassing the attainment of a commercial pilot's license. Sadly, such aspirations find scant feasibility within the UK. Hence, I contemplate the feasibility of pursuing an FAA license while under a work visa in the US, thereafter seeking employment with an airline, thereby extending my visa tenure.

I am acutely aware that my proposed course of action is packed with ambition and plenty of risks. Nonetheless, if I am to realize my ambition of ascending to the realm of jet flying, I must undertake calculated risks. Moreover, the pursuit of the ATPL modular curriculum in the US while engaged in instructing stands to render the endeavour significantly cheaper than the UK (a sum >£120,000).

Certainly, further thought will be put into it before any financial commitments, but that's why I've turned to this forum for input once again.

Any insights, past experiences, or just general advice would be received with utmost appreciation.

bakerin

[GS-Alpha]

I am sorry to hear of your inability to obtain a class one medical. It is never nice to have dreams quashed by something outside of your control. In your shoes I would probably pursue a different career and use my spare cash to enjoy flying for fun, but that’s just me.

I do not know much about the FAA’s medical requirements, but before you consider starting down that path, go get whatever medical certification they require.

If your father is looking for additional work, I think Magnus Flying School at Welshpool have been looking for a CAA instructor.

Good luck.

[B2N2]

D,

I read nothing about having acquired an FAA medical ?

[rudestuff]

1. Get an FAA class one medical
2. Get F1 Visa and get FAA certified
3. Get on Tinder/Bumble etc
4. Get married
5. Get green card and airline job
--- --- --- ---
6. Get Divorced
7. Lose half your sh1t
8. Get married
9. >> Go to step 6
.

[bakerin]

I have not aquired one but I've been told by optometrists I am well within the guidelines as it's a lot more relaxed than the CAA regulations

[AlwaysWondering]

Did you follow the advice previously to contact a specialist optician (head optometrist for the CAA for more than a decade in fact) for an opinion?

And have you checked the FAA's optical requirements?
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards
Anyway the first step would be to try and get the FAA Class one.

[Capn Bug Smasher]

If you are colour blind, I'm afraid I can't comment, but if its myopia, I have a personal anecdote for you. Bearing in mind it's from 2018 so might have changed.

The Canadian Class 1 has - on paper - stricter requirements than the British. I assume from your mention of an optometrist that your medical problem is eyesight.

From personal experience back in 2018 the Canadians are a lot more lenient than the CAA and I was able to get a Class 1 with a note from an optometrist explaining that my retinas were not at danger of detaching (cost of note: $100 and a short eye examination.)

How old are you?

If you are younger than 35, you can go to Canada on a three-year working holiday visa, and with the right moves, get your Permanent Residency (the younger and higher-educated you are, the better.) You might be eligible for PR right now - check. The earlier you apply the better.

On a working holiday you can work for whoever you like, although it's hard to get a "proper" job like flying without PR. Once you've got PR, you will be better eligible for "proper" jobs. I met at least a couple of flying instructors and CPL candidates who had got PR and then landed their positions.

This will be easier immigration-wise than the USA.

Disclaimer: I'm (still) not a pilot - due to cost - and I don't have my PR (possibly my biggest regret in life, although it is one I am trying to rectify.)

HOWEVER: DON'T LET TRYING TO BECOME A PILOT CONSUME YOUR LIFE. I did, and I forgot to live mine. I don't entirely regret it but I would be in a much better position now if I hadn't. The advice by others to seek out another career and fly for fun is not without merit and you should consider it very carefully.

[B2N2]

If you are colour blind, I'm afraid I can't comment, but if its myopia, I have a personal anecdote for you. Bearing in mind it's from 2018 so might have changed.

The Canadian Class 1 has - on paper - stricter requirements than the British. I assume from your mention of an optometrist that your medical problem is eyesight.

From personal experience back in 2018 the Canadians are a lot more lenient than the CAA and I was able to get a Class 1 with a note from an optometrist explaining that my retinas were not at danger of detaching (cost of note: $100 and a short eye examination.)

How old are you?

If you are younger than 35, you can go to Canada on a three-year working holiday visa, and with the right moves, get your Permanent Residency (the younger and higher-educated you are, the better.) You might be eligible for PR right now - check. The earlier you apply the better.

On a working holiday you can work for whoever you like, although it's hard to get a "proper" job like flying without PR. Once you've got PR, you will be better eligible for "proper" jobs. I met at least a couple of flying instructors and CPL candidates who had got PR and then landed their positions.

This will be easier immigration-wise than the USA.

Disclaimer: I'm (still) not a pilot - due to cost - and I don't have my PR (possibly my biggest regret in life, although it is one I am trying to rectify.)

HOWEVER: DON'T LET TRYING TO BECOME A PILOT CONSUME YOUR LIFE. I did, and I forgot to live mine. I don't entirely regret it but I would be in a much better position now if I hadn't. The advice by others to seek out another career and fly for fun is not without merit and you should consider it very carefully.

This ^^^ and all of this ^^^

Get both an FAA and a Canadian medical, the cost is peanuts compared to what you’re planning on spending.
Canada is relatively speaking easier then US as far as Immigration is concerned.
We can only point you in the right direction so many times.

[Dehertog]

In order to use a FAA license you surely would need a FAA medical.

IMO your best bet would be to look at the FAA medical guidelines stated above,

[LTCTerry]

You are not going to get a visa that will allow you to work in the US. "I'm a pilot" isn't going to cut it. There is a visa program for highly experienced pilots, but meeting the minimum threshold for a job is not "highly experienced." Sorry.

There are people who get a flight training visa with ATP as a goal, so they are allowed to work as a CFI to build time to 1,500. But getting an ATP will not get them a visa or a job.

Can you move to Australia? Same King/etc. Australians are eligible for pilot work visas.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are places in the UK to get an FAA class 1. The last time I got one done here it was by a company called Centreline near Gatwick - I'd suggest taking nobody's word for your ability to get an FAA class 1, until you actually have an FAA class 1.

Definitely worth looking at the Canadian options, and also going all the way down the line seeing if there are workarounds to get a CAA class 1. Heck, most people who've worked in both countries would pick Canada in preference to the USA as a place to live and work.

And if all else fails, there are other jobs in aviation: I've done several ! During Covid lockdowns my PhD in airworthiness made me a lot more money than my CPL.

G

[bakerin]

Hey, thank you for the advice, it's had me thinking a lot, I wondered if you could provide more clarification on the following:

" If you are younger than 35, you can go to Canada on a three-year working holiday visa, and with the right moves, get your Permanent Residency (the younger and higher-educated you are, the better.) You might be eligible for PR right now - check. The earlier you apply the better.

On a working holiday you can work for whoever you like, although it's hard to get a "proper" job like flying without PR. Once you've got PR, you will be better eligible for "proper" jobs. I met at least a couple of flying instructors and CPL candidates who had got PR and then landed their positions."

For some context I am 18.Firstly how hard is it to obtain the working holiday visa? Assuming PR is permanent residency, how can I go about getting it, do they consider a flight instructor as a sort of education? In terms of school, I have my basic school qualifications but no degree or anything.

As for the second part, it makes sense that an airline for example wouldn't want to hire someone on a temporary stay, but what if I get some sort of agreement with the Canadian government that if I can secure a long term position within an airline, they will provide me with my PR, which I could then show the airline, or something along those lines.

A lot of questions but this could be the way forward, I hope you or anyone else could help answer my questions. Thanks again!

[B2N2]

I hate to say it but someone needs to.

Stop putting the cart in front of the horse

You are 18, get a medical and start with your PPL in the UK, part time while you continue your education.
Throwing everything at “becoming a pilot” without any regard for reality and it’s pitfalls is not the way.
You can’t just go to the US or Canada and just hope for the best without any higher education to help you sustain at least a moderate lifestyle during the times you don’t have a flying job.
Getting minimum wage and sleeping on someone’s couch may seem romantic but it’s not. It’s harsh and soulless.
Having a degree in a useful field will make immigration a whole lot less difficult.
You need to prepare for success not for failure

[bakerin]

I hate to say it but someone needs to.

Stop putting the cart in front of the horse

You are 18, get a medical and start with your PPL in the UK, part time while you continue your education.
Throwing everything at “becoming a pilot” without any regard for reality and it’s pitfalls is not the way.
You can’t just go to the US or Canada and just hope for the best without any higher education to help you sustain at least a moderate lifestyle during the times you don’t have a flying job.
Getting minimum wage and sleeping on someone’s couch may seem romantic but it’s not. It’s harsh and soulless.
Having a degree in a useful field will make emigration a whole lot less difficult.
You need to prepare for success not for failure

Of course and thank you for the concern, I am currently in a stable office job on a full time salary, so at the bare minimum I have that for the next 50 years... My PPRuNe account is just for all things flying, I tend not to talk about my current job / education as in my eyes it is not relevant to my posts. :ok:

[B2N2]

Of course and thank you for the concern, I am currently in a stable office job on a full time salary, so at the bare minimum I have that for the next 50 years... My PPRuNe account is just for all things flying, I tend not to talk about my current job / education as in my eyes it is not relevant to my posts. :ok:

Well it kinda sorta is without getting all sorts of personal details involved.
You’re still 18 without a degree correct?
Im not saying to not think about a flying career abroad but ‘hope’ is not a strategy.
Start thinking about what kind of additional higher education will make you a more successful immigrant?

[bakerin]

Good point, I am without a degree at the moment but I don't think it's worth the 4 years and ~£40,000 for a degree that at most will help with my immigration, especially since I will not use it during my stay. Hope definitely is not the strategy, I don't really understand what you mean?

[B2N2]

I don't think it's worth the 4 years and ~£40,000 for a degree

You’re missing the point by a country mile.
Nor Canada not the US are waiting for or very welcoming to ….uneducated immigrants.
If you intend to apply for some sort of work visa or residency permit you cannot apply as “pilot”.
”Pilot” is not an immigration category nor do either country have a shortage.
If you apply as “mechanical engineer” or “registered nurse” you’ll have a much better chance.
Once you’re in and a legal resident you can change to whichever.
Again, i hate to be this blunt but your only option is to emigrate outside of EASA medical territory.
Just consider for a moment what they need and not what you want.

[SpecOps]

You’re missing the point by a country mile.

Nor Canada not the US are waiting for or very welcoming to ….uneducated immigrants.

If you intend to apply for some sort of work visa or residency permit you cannot apply as “pilot”.

”Pilot” is not an immigration category nor do either country have a shortage.

If you apply as “mechanical engineer” or “registered nurse” you’ll have a much better chance.

Once you’re in and a legal resident you can change to whichever.

Again, i hate to be this blunt but your only option is to emigrate outside of EASA medical territory.

Just consider for a moment what they need and not what you want.

I very much agree, indeed it’s usually more difficult than implied in your post.



If you apply as “mechanical engineer” or “registered nurse” you’ll have a much better chance.



Particularly for the US but even for Canada, if you just apply as a British (or EU) trained nurse or even doctor or dentist even if you have years of experience, you still won’t have much of a chance (unless you’re outstanding in your field/internationally recognised). It’s not just a matter of passing extra exams, there’s a lot more education involved as well as other steps. It’s difficult, time consuming and expensive - only the most dedicated make it happen.

I assume it’s easier for some areas of engineering but even if he gets an MEng in an area that’s in demand and he gets a first from a top British uni and his course is accredited by an engineering society/body etc - he’s still pretty worthless unless he has at least a PhD but ideally work experience as an engineer.

Good point, I am without a degree at the moment but I don't think it's worth the 4 years and ~£40,000 for a degree that at most will help with my immigration, especially since I will not use it during my stay. Hope definitely is not the strategy, I don't really understand what you mean?

You will probably need to use your degree during your stay because you will likely need a skilled job lined up to immigrate in the first place.

I do have sympathy for your POV regarding degrees, especially since most graduates of even STEM subjects don’t end up with jobs that are particularly highly skilled or utilise knowledge from their degree. Nonetheless having real in-demand skills is important and a good degree is usually (for most people but not all) the first step in acquiring them, thus making an immigration application more likely to succeed but on it’s own a STEM degree is often not enough.

If you want to move to the US, for medicine or dentistry it’s best to just do your degree in the US or Canada on a student visa and then get a job as a doctor or dentist (it’s easy to work in either country with a degree from either country but it’s very expensive and time consuming since you need an undergrad life science degree first).

I can’t speak much for other careers but it may well be easier to do a degree in the US or Canada and then try to get a job so you can stay in the country however even if that’s feasible (definitely check) I presume it’s cost prohibitive especially due to lack of student loans.

[B2N2]

There is a “cultural” difference between the USA and Europe as in instruction is a common if not the most common way in the USA to get started in aviation while in Europe it is much more of a niche employment.
Which means in the US probably 80+% of zero-CPL candidates do their instructor rating (CFI) also.
So instructors are a dime a dozen in the USA and it takes a lot of experience to stand out.
Like 2-3 years of ‘regular’ instruction followed by relevant experience in turbo props or jets to instruct in those.
Places like FlightSafety and Simuflight have people lined up around the block to become ground or simulator instructors on business jets.

[Miles2Go]

I'd have to agree with the others that getting some higher education under your belt first would serve you well long term, especially if you're serious about pursuing a flying career abroad down the line. I know it's a big investment of time and money, but it may open more doors for you.

[paco]

If you do manage to get either the Canadian or FAA licence, a small exam gets you the other one.

[B2N2]

Of course and thank you for the concern, I am currently in a stable office job on a full time salary, so at the bare minimum I have that for the next 50 years... My PPRuNe account is just for all things flying, I tend not to talk about my current job / education as in my eyes it is not relevant to my posts. :ok:

If you have a decent job which is not entirely soul sucking and mind numbing….keep it.
Save,save and save again.
You could complete flight training and be looking for a job in any country that will issue you a medical in 6-7 years.
Mostly debt free.

[bakerin]

Yeah at the moment it is definitely just a saving game, I'm not so worried about obtaining a medical, but moreso about visa / immigration to the country that I am getting a medical in, for now the plan is definitely to just work and keep living at home, saving every penny. The questions I ask on here are for 2+ years in the future anyway. Thanks again.

[this is my username]

The route I took was:

- Unable to get a UK (at the time EASA) Class 1 due to eyesight
- Got an FAA Class 1 via a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability - had to do a brief checkride in the US with an FAA staff Examiner)
- Got an FAA CPL (also Instrument & Multi, but not relevant in this context)
- Got a UK / EASA Class 1 based on the renewal requirements rather than initial issue requirements on the basis of my FAA CPL
- Got an UK / EASA CPL / IR / ME
- .... never managed to get a job with it!

It was a few (10 or 12 ?) years ago now, rules may have changed.

[B2N2]

The route I took was:

- Unable to get a UK (at the time EASA) Class 1 due to eyesight
- Got an FAA Class 1 via a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Ability - had to do a brief checkride in the US with an FAA staff Examiner)
- Got an FAA CPL (also Instrument & Multi, but not relevant in this context)
- Got a UK / EASA Class 1 based on the renewal requirements rather than initial issue requirements on the basis of my FAA CPL
- Got an UK / EASA CPL / IR / ME
- .... never managed to get a job with it!

It was a few (10 or 12 ?) years ago now, rules may have changed.

bakerin take a long hard look at this post.
The amount of time and effort and emotions vested and not the desired outcome.
This is not an easy industry to say the least.

[bakerin]

- .... never managed to get a job with it!

How come? Was it something to do with your medical or was it just because you couldn't find work as a pilot?

[B2N2]

How come? Was it something to do with your medical or was it just because you couldn't find work as a pilot?

Its not for lack of trying.
Read the posting history.

[rudestuff]

There will always be people who never get a job, regardless of the industry. Some people just time it badly and give up, some people are able to get qualified but have no idea how to actually get an interview and some people were unemployable from the start. But that's not a reason not to go for it. That's why I recommend that if you need a job to pay for flight training, get an airline job. At least that way you're half way through the door. Its a long game but it's tried and trusted.