Flying over Iran

[ManaAdaSystem]

Most airlines are now routing outside Iranian airspace, but FlyDubai, Qatar, Air Arabia and Salaam Air are happily flying right through Iran. This while/shortly after missiles have passed through the same airspace.
Profit is more important than flight safety?
How do they defend this?

[DTA]

You can add Emirates and assorted Russian airlines to that list, plus some others.

[CW247]

Unconfirmed rumours (the type that can never be confirmed because of the utter shame) that the US told Iran to just accept a missile or two so Israel can save face and then let it be over with. Maybe the Arab states know this and thus green-lighted usage of the airspace?

https://x.com/snarwani/status/1780199469172113877

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24419

[FUMR]

Unconfirmed rumours (the type that can never be confirmed because of the utter shame) that the US told Iran to just accept a missile or two so Israel can save face and then let it be over with. Maybe the Arab states know this and thus green-lighted usage of the airspace?

https://x.com/snarwani/status/1780199469172113877

https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24419

I think that any Israeli reprisals (if they come) will be intelligent and better planned than just lobbing some missiles back at Iran!

[NoelEvans]

I was very pleased that the airline that we flew with on Tuesday night avoided Iranian airspace even though it added time to the flight.

[ZFT]

I think that any Israeli reprisals (if they come) will be intelligent and better planned than just lobbing some missiles back at Iran!

There's sod all intelligence being used in that part of the world.

[kcockayne]

There's sod all intelligence being used in that part of the world.
One tends to agree with this statement !

[Lonewolf_50]

How do they defend this? Probably under the 'big sky little missile' theory. :p What happened to MH-17 surely can't happen to our aircraft!
Unconfirmed rumours (the type that can never be confirmed because of the utter shame) that the US told Iran to just accept a missile or two so Israel can save face and then let it be over with. Maybe the Arab states know this and thus green-lighted usage of the airspace? Interesting, if true.
One tends to agree with this statement ! Likewise.

[FUMR]

There's sod all intelligence being used in that part of the world.

Quite true. But then again there's sod all intelligence being used in any part of the world these days!

[25/25]

Fly Dubai overflies Iran and Emirates avoid. Not the same informations??? Really ???

[ManaAdaSystem]

You guys really think the US and Israel would send information to ME airlines with details about when and where an attack on Iran would take place????
The airlines flying through Iran are gambling with their passengers (and crew) lives. It cost money to fly to fly around, so they just take a chance in order to save a few $$$.

[T28B]

ManaAdaSystem (https://www.pprune.org/members/20211-manaadasystem)
Please send a strongly worded memo to each airline that you feel has crossed that line.
And then, please post their responses here. :E
We may all find the responses interesting.

[dr dre]

It's not just Iran, aircraft and missiles would be flying through the airspace of several nations, including Iraq. Most airlines have been flying through Iraq from Kuwait to Turkey this whole time which is exactly where missiles, aircraft and drones are passing through. There are plenty of airlines flying through Israeli, Jordanian, Saudi Arabian and UAE airspace - don't forget Abu Dhabi airport has been targeted by drone attacks twice in recent years. The Persian Gulf itself is chock full of traffic but isn't immune from shootdowns as the case of Iranair 655 attests.

So there are a lot of potential risks in the area - it's just up to how you manage them. Once could say flying through Iran over the eastern half of the country is safer than flying anywhere near Israel or Iraq at the moment.

[ATC Watcher]

Continuing flying into a war zone is not a new story. Sad to see that lessons from the past as still ignored by most airlines putting profits before safety . Maybe Malaysian and Ukraine airlines having learned the hard way will divert , but memories are short lived in our business
.
In the maritime world it is the same if one look at the ships being targeted by Houtis off the Yemen coast , despite direct hits , some companies still take the risk to send their ships through the Suez Canal to save money .

[Twiglet1]

ATC I don't think its fair to lump Malaysian with Ukraine Intl. Many worldwide major AOC's were flying the same route as Malaysian. I know of only 1 AOC that avoided it although I stand to be corrected. BA are currently flying over Afghanistan they will have done their homework are they putting profit before safety I sincerely doubt it.

[dr dre]

BA are currently flying over Afghanistan they will have done their homework are they putting profit before safety I sincerely doubt it.

The Taliban don't have any combat aircraft or high altitude SAMs so Afghanistan is probably one of the safer countries in the region to fly over if you want to avoid an accidental shoot down. Many carriers including FlyDubai, Air Arabia and some local Afghan airlines are regularly flying in and out of the country.

[ATC Watcher]

ATC I don't think its fair to lump Malaysian with Ukraine Intl. Many worldwide major AOC's were flying the same route as Malaysian. I know of only 1 AOC that avoided it although I stand to be corrected. BA are currently flying over Afghanistan they will have done their homework are they putting profit before safety I sincerely doubt it.
On the Malaysian , there were quite a few airlines that were avoiding the airspace altogether that day . from my memory (*) the Ukrainian NOTAM was restricting airspace below FL300 or so , and many flew above as it was not restricted. An intelligence bulletin based on satellite images came out one or 3 days before showing Russian BUK systems being moved to Eastern Ukraine. How various airlines reacted to that intelligence ( or even were made aware of it) varied considerably and even within the same airline group where OPS are separated. For instance Air France chose to take the detour and avoid the area completely ,but KLM did not. We saw apparently the same now with Emirates and Fly Dubai. on Iranian airspace.

As to UK airlines doing better than the rest, I am unfortunately old enough to remember the Kosovo war , where some British Charter airlines choose to fly at night from UK to Greece , on a route passing 10 NM from were NATO was bombing and the Serbian were firing SAMs, and seven shot down a F117 and aF16 not far from that route.
.
But seeing the same again today ,whether it was right after 7 October in Tel Aviv where many airlines continued to fly under Iron Dome and Hamas rockets some falling 10-20 NM from the airport. . or now using East Iraq to by pass Iran , or worse overflying Iran knowing that the Israeli were bound to retaliate. It might not be putting profit before safety but it is definitively not putting safety first.
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(*) from memory , apologies in advance if the figure is not correct I do not want to reopen the MH17 files and reports.

[Dannyboy39]

ATC I don't think it’s fair to lump Malaysian with Ukraine Intl. Many worldwide major AOC's were flying the same route as Malaysian. I know of only 1 AOC that avoided it although I stand to be corrected. BA are currently flying over Afghanistan they will have done their homework are they putting profit before safety I sincerely doubt it.
Re BA, think this is only a recent thing (one of their senior pilots posted something on Twitter. They have one specific airway, they have to remain at or above (I think) 38,000 and only using it on the long SIN A380 rotation. From what I can decipher the vast majority of the airlines are still deviating, so I found it a little odd. Clearly their security teams are a lot more clued up than me!

[hunterboy]

I’ve certainly operated in and out of TLV while Iron Dome did or didn’t shoot anything down as the radar had detected the object was going to land outside the airfield boundary. That’s all well and good, but I did question the wisdom of a civilian airline operating in and out under such conditions. I guess the companies think everything will be alright until it isn’t. As for BA’s security apparatus, you are lucky if you can get them to answer the phone after office hours. Not a lot of help at 0100z on a Sat morning when flogging across the Atlantic with a security issue.I think more than one BA pilot has raised their eyebrows when confronted with the BA canned music and being told their call was important to BA when dialling the direct security number on the sat phone and then holding for 15 minutes.

[Mr Mac]

There are quite a few areas of the globe currently where commercial over flying has been curtailed due things occurring on the ground. Just look at the Sahara area and the various re routing caused in that area. I am a reasonably regular SLF with EK since early 2000,s and flew over Turkey and into Iran on most journeys all the way through the issues in Iraq and even flew over there occasionally. The other route I have used West bound was through Saudi and Jordan and Lebanon. It’s nothing really new.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Lonewolf_50]

Is everything back to normal now, in the skies over Iran, or are some airlines still going around it?

[the_stranger]

Is everything back to normal now, in the skies over Iran, or are some airlines still going around it?
KLM avoids it.

[Mr Mac]

Lonewolf 50
A casual look at flight radar shows a mixed picture with some flights doing the Saudi / Egypt route and others going further East over Tehran but also some now on Iraq / Iran border, so possibly back to normality soon. There is a Hamburg bound EK over Egypt and an inbound EK from London doing Tehran route and a Qatar inbound to Qatar from London over Iraq. Go figure I guess.

Cheers
Mr Mac