Mayday Fuel Assumptions

[Airmann]

The documentation indicates that Mayday Fuel is declared when you expect to land below final reserve. Sounds simple enough, but is this based on the assumption you will get a direct to final after the Mayday is declared? Or does it include a routing with more track miles such as a star? You could end up declaring a Mayday on the basis of flying an entire star only to be given a direct to final and end up landing significantly above final reserve. What would be the consequences of this?

[Harry Grout]

Some people think too much. If you believe you will land with less than final reserve then declare a mayday. If the situation should subsequently change in your favour, cancel it. Fill out ASR. Job done.

[Torquetalk]

Why would you declare a mayday? Declaring a pan due fuel reserves will get controllers’ attention.

[321XLR]

Why would you declare a mayday? Declaring a pan due fuel reserves will get controllers’ attention.

Has something changed in regards to ATC/Pilot fuel phraseology ?

https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/bookshelf/2376.pdf


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1071x262/mayday_fuel_91fd84730b30a99c2b2a4e6f959456945ea7fb20.png

[Torquetalk]

Has something changed in regards to ATC/Pilot fuel phraseology ?

https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/bookshelf/2376.pdf


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1071x262/mayday_fuel_91fd84730b30a99c2b2a4e6f959456945ea7fb20.png

Neither situation reflects the level of urgency of the case in point:

Is it a situation of no contingency for unexpected delay? No.
Are you about to fall out of the sky? No.

But it is an urgency. and it has to be communicated. So declare a pan, give the reason and do not accept any delay. If given the run around or the controllers have odd priorities (common in exotic parts), THEN declare a mayday.

[Airmann]

Neither situation reflects the level of urgency of the case in point:

Is it a situation of no contingency for unexpected delay? No.
Are you about to fall out of the sky? No.

But it is an urgency. and it has to be communicated. So declare a pan, give the reason and do not accept any delay. If given the run around or the controllers have odd priorities (common in exotic parts), THEN declare a mayday.

You seem to be making up your own procedure where there does`nt seem to be room for doing so. The procedure regarding low fuel situations is quite clear except for the issue I raised.

[Torquetalk]

You seem to be making up your own procedure where there does`nt seem to be room for doing so. The procedure regarding low fuel situations is quite clear except for the issue I raised.

Your text says “the documentation indicates…“. Sounds like you have engaged in a bit of interpretation right there.

And what is “mayday fuel“? Never heard of it. (Edited as I was clearly wrong about that).

On the other had there are lots of laws and regulations that are both helpful and not quite adequate to deal with every situation. and then there are places and people who just don‘t quite follow the regs anyway.

So that leaves you, with however much fuel you have, under whatever rules you are flying, in whatever environment you are flying, deciding how big a shout you want to make about your fuel situation.

Count to 20 and think about what you transmit…

[KRviator]

Some people think too much. If you believe you will land with less than final reserve then declare a mayday. If the situation should subsequently change in your favour, cancel it. Fill out ASR. Job done.Spot on. If, based on the information currently in your possession and it not changing, you believe you will land with less than your FFR at the nearest suitable, you must, declare MAYDAY FUEL. If, having committed to land at a particular airport (destination or otherwise) and you may have less than your FFR if your current clearance changes, then you must declare MINIMUM FUEL.

If the situation improves after the declaration (Cleared direct, or planned holding cancelled for eg) then great, but that may not, and in fact, probably won't happen, unless you declare minimum or mayday fuel.

Emergency Fuel
The pilot in command must declare a situation of emergency fuel by broadcasting MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY FUEL, when the calculated usable fuel predicted to be available upon landing at the nearest aerodrome where a safe landing can be made is less than the final reserve fuel.

[Capn Bloggs]

Torquetalk, more relevant for you (from the doc 321XLR quoted):
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/685x183/minmaydayfuel_easa_sib_2018_08_abbf2ce6994cc02fc36494ec4a8b1 bd9c4556430.jpg
"Pan" does not come into it. More concerningly, these rules have been in place for at least 10 years. :cool:

[Torquetalk]

Torquetalk, more relevant for you (from the doc 321XLR quoted):
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/685x183/minmaydayfuel_easa_sib_2018_08_abbf2ce6994cc02fc36494ec4a8b1 bd9c4556430.jpg
"Pan" does not come into it. More concerningly, these rules have been in place for at least 10 years. :cool:

Yep, corrected my post. Just plain wrong.

Still, being VFR VMC with discretion as to how to complete the flight and certain reach of landing is a very different situation to being a controlled flight and having to ensure prioritization to complete the flight safely.

[BraceBrace]

If, having committed to land at a particular airport (destination or otherwise) and you may have less than your FFR if your current clearance changes, then you must declare MINIMUM FUEL.

That's how I understood the regulation as well.

When discussing this with others, something I always miss is the notion that the minimum fuel situation does not create itself "in an instant". It should be a result of many things that have happened already in which both you and the controller have been in contact and the situation is clear to both of you. The "commited to the airport" is already a pretty strong decision made prior in time, which means ATC gave you some kind of confirmation they should be able to get you in, otherwise you would have already been long gone on diversion.

As long as the controller's plans seems to get you in while you are keeping final reserve fuel in the tanks, that is fine, and you can let him control the situation. From the moment something changes (either longer time in the hold, adapted routing, weather changes,...) and you feel you need to take control over the flight path to protect your final reserve, you declare the mayday to give yourself that priority/"freedom". That doesn't stop you from giving him a signal ahead of course (like "unable STAR", he might give you a direct and the mayday might not be required)

[321XLR]

Yep, corrected my post. Just plain wrong.

Still, being VFR VMC with discretion as to how to complete the flight and certain reach of landing is a very different situation to being a controlled flight and having to ensure prioritization to complete the flight safely.

does safety change if not a "controlled flight" ?

[Torquetalk]

does safety change if not a "controlled flight" ?

Safety doesn‘t, but the responsibility and decision-making discretion do.

[Escape Path]

Why would you declare a mayday? Declaring a pan due fuel reserves will get controllers’ attention.

I've never heard or read or seen of anything that relates to "declaring a pan due fuel reserves". Phraseology exists for a reason and getting out of standard comms can get you in a lot of trouble quite quickly, particularly if flying in a country where English is not the native language and you don't speak the local language. There are (sadly) plenty of examples that demonstrate this.

Using a minimum fuel status will usually get a controller's attention as it is obvious that it is not frequently used and (in my experience) is likely to cause a sense of urgency. Others above have already been quite clear on how the regulation is intended and how to use it.

+1 on the overthinking. Don't assume a direct will be issued, you're already down on fuel. The thing doesn't fly too far without it and you're already (or will be) down to your last 30 mins, do you really want to push it that far? Something quite extraordinary has already happened to get you down to this point; I'd even go as far as declaring the emergency with a couple of minutes above my usual 30 if the situation might demand such a thing. It's fuel (and not too much of it left BTW), don't mess with it, follow the regulation, communicate as per the norm and, if necessary, err on the side of caution.

KRviator has pretty much summed it all up quite nicely, IMO