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el sol
3rd Apr 2024, 08:17
Good day all,
Is anyone aware of published limits (Ops manual/SMS etc) for flight instructors in the UK on the max duty hours you are allowed to work? Having held a professional licence for most of my working life, I am aware of the requirement when flying public transport operations, but can't find any guidance for similar rules/regs in the world of UK flight training. Any info would be appreciated. Thank you.

Whopity
3rd Apr 2024, 08:32
It is down to individual ATOs to specify their requirements in their OPS manual and for the NAA to approve it.

Fl1ingfrog
3rd Apr 2024, 08:45
Flying instruction is not considered to be commercial public transport and so there is no duty or flying hours limitations.

ATOguy
3rd Apr 2024, 09:03
You might want to have a look at ORA.ATO.130 (d)

Jhieminga
4th Apr 2024, 08:30
Part-ORA.ATO.130 (d) states:
(d) The operations manual shall establish flight time limitation schemes for flight instructors,
including the maximum flying hours, maximum flying duty hours and minimum rest time between
instructional duties in accordance with Part-ORO.
Which neatly points you back to Part-ORO.FTL and all that is contained therein.

hobbit1983
7th Apr 2024, 12:14
You're allowed to work from sunrise till when the weather craps out, or sunset, as 'flight time is money' (in fact, your ONLY money). Your half hour scheduled lunch break is of course to 'squeeze in a quick 3 circuits for Bob, as he's solo hiring this afternoon but forget he was out of 90 days'. Don't forget to get time for a quick comfort break by getting the stude to a-check the aircraft you've just flown.

janrein
7th Apr 2024, 22:25
A national authority defining explicitly and quantitatively for flight training schools

Spanish AESA - Flight time and crew duty limitations
https://www.seguridadaerea.gob.es/en/ambitos/operaciones-aereas/limitaciones-de-tiempo-de-vuelo-y-actividad-de-tripulaciones
Which includes
"The following are subject to national legislation:
Operational Circular 16 B (https://www.seguridadaerea.gob.es/sites/default/files/circular_operativa_16b.pdf) on flight time limitations, air duty maximums and minimum rest periods for crews."
https://www.seguridadaerea.gob.es/sites/default/files/circular_operativa_16b.pdf (in spanish)
Paragraphs 4.4 and 5.2 specifically define for flight schools.
The Circular Operativa 16B predates EASA and JAA (published 1995) and is still applicable.

Of course applicable only for flight schools under spanish oversight and flight schools operating in spanish territory, not applicable elsewhere, but may give an idea and may serve as a reference.

Anyone aware of similar national regulations elsewhere?

EXDAC
7th Apr 2024, 23:06
Anyone aware of similar national regulations elsewhere?

FAA 14 CFR 61: 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:

(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.

janrein
9th Apr 2024, 00:01
Thank you EXDAC!

In comparison an extract of the essential from above referernced spanish Circular Operativa 16B.
The CO-16B limits Flight DUTY rather than Flying TIME over a day.
Flight duty start at the start of any scheduled duty or 45 min before first scheduled flight whichever is earlier and ends brakes-on after the last flight.
Flight Duty so defined is maxed at 8 hrs a day, extendable to 10 hrs a day with the extension meant as an allowance to get home from a navigation flight only.

And then maximums for flight training hours including other commercial flying hours per 28 days, per 3 months etc., similar to european commercial air transport.

Exacty wording and numbers etc in the CO-16B itself.

Anyone else any more? From Europe?

gipsymagpie
9th Apr 2024, 21:08
Part-ORA.ATO.130 (d) states:

Which neatly points you back to Part-ORO.FTL and all that is contained therein.
Not quite all. Actually more like "a little bit" of ORO.FTL. The general guidance applies but none of the actual specification like maximum duty times, minimum rest etc. As for helicopter operations CAP371 is a better starting point but effectively it's up to the ATO.

BigEndBob
12th Apr 2024, 20:02
Would welcome getting anywhere near a limit given current climate. I did 99 ;) hours in a month in 1991.
Limit then was 100, CAA inspector told me off, claimed i did over 100.

BigEndBob
12th Apr 2024, 20:09
FAA 14 CFR 61: 61.195 Flight instructor limitations and qualifications.A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is subject to the following limitations:

(a) Hours of training. In any 24-consecutive-hour period, a flight instructor may not conduct more than 8 hours of flight training.
In the glory days would do 5 during the day and 3 in the evening night flying here in UK in 90's about once a week.

Hughes500
15th Apr 2024, 18:10
You might be a DTO not an ATO !

el sol
18th Apr 2024, 08:14
Many thanks to all for taking the time to respond. It would seem, overall, that no formal limits exist at the mo.. Cheers.

el sol
18th Apr 2024, 08:49
thanks for that. It all points to the fact that there are no rules regarding ftl for fi's, al least in the UK, as far as I can see. Cheers