Courchevel Savoie France. Crash on landing

[Tartiflette Fan]

Saturday Feb 17th. 10:30

An aeroplane tore off one wing on landing and the altiport is closed because of spilt fuel. Pilot and co-pilot slightly injured, taken to local doctor, not hospital

https://www.ledauphine.com/faits-divers-justice/2024/02/17/un-avion-rate-son-atterrissage-a-courchevel

[treadigraph]

A Pilatus Pile Up, er, PC-12...

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/351757

[jimjim1]

https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/02/17/alert-a-pilatus-pc-12-has-lost-its-left-wing-during-crash-landing-at-courchevel-france/

https://m.webcam-hd.com/courchevel-mairie/altiport

Images from Airlive page and altiport webcam.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/850x585/courchevel_pc12_2_05266f6b565920e3c2d066bc432d96beed838d65.j peg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1476x752/courchevel_pc_12_192184ff1009041121667fed17359cc37d9a51f3.jp g

[Tartiflette Fan]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228329432095200&set=gm.25202610129324255&idorvanity=496336950378249

[markkal]

It happened before with another PC12 at Couchevel, landed long and fast and hit the snowbank straight ahead at the end of the up sloping runway..........

[Dogflyer]

... again and again and again... And in this case the same Belgian operator. Hard to believe. "Jamais une fois sans sans deux?" As a recent French BEA safety report just pointed out, this happens every year. Occasionally someone dies. Not this time, and that's good. But when will crews get properly trained? Courchevel is a piece of cake... really simple. But, like everything else, only if you know what long final, short final, and touchdown should look like, and what speeds, and nose up attitude in the flare (your are landing uphill) you need to nail it within 2 Kts and 1º. Like flying an instrument approach. And if the wind's a problem you don't land. If you have a doubt, you don't land. It's that simple. Not rocket science by any any stretch of the imagination. Just basic... I repeat... basic , training, currency. Some call tit airmanship, but it's just common sense.

[DIBO]

It happened before with another PC12 at Couchevel, landed long and fast and hit the snowbank straight ahead at the end of the up sloping runwaysure you're not mixing things up with this Malibu accident? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw7eBmi1Lt8

[DIBO]

It did happen before to another PC12 ... from the same operator.... Landed short: https://bea.aero/les-enquetes/evenements-notifies/detail/accident-du-pilatus-pc12-immatricule-oo-pci-survenu-le-25-02-2017-a-courchevel-73/

[pattern_is_full]

One does have to bring one's A++-game to Courchevel - every time! The "St. Barts of the Alps."

[Tartiflette Fan]

One does have to bring one's A++-game to Courchevel - every time! The "St. Barts of the Alps."

Well, there is plenty of decent restauration close by and - if you wait long enough - night-life albeit with a somewhat louche reputation.

[rog747]

I recall the rather splendid Tyrolean Airways 50 seat Dash 7 charter operations in to this tiny airport.
Tyrolean Airways had lead the way with Dash 7 Ski flight Ops to Chambery airport, plus they also flew to the tiny mountain top airport of Courchevel where the airfield has a very short runway of only 537 metres with a gradient of 18.6%.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/570x378/dash_7_tyrolean_anflug_courchevel_foto_red_blog_aua_d64413a3 cc2f4c78a90d25d74289304ca1b89e70.jpg

Rare footage of Tyroleans' Dash 7 landing at Courchevel.
This was so demanding that it does not have a go-around procedure.
Courchevel is a ski resort in the French Alps.
The Altiport (LFLJ) is famous for its sloping runway up to 18.5º. The runway is 1755 ft (535 m) long and elevation of 6580 ft.

Dash 7 landing at Courchevel

[Timmy Tomkins]

I spent may happy hours flyig those woderful aircraft. It was capable of some remarkable things and very safe as well.

[Uplinker]

Respect to any pilots landing at Courchevel, I don't think I could do it.

At 18.5° up-slope, could you stop safely on the runway, or do you have to get all the way to the top before you dare stop ?

[Dogflyer]

The slope slows you down. It's not big deal. Just need to learn how.Like everything else.

[sycamore]

Largest a/c to land there...Herc or Transall...?

[CVividasku]

Respect to any pilots landing at Courchevel, I don't think I could do it.

At 18.5° up-slope, could you stop safely on the runway, or do you have to get all the way to the top before you dare stop ?
With such a slope, some airplanes won't be able to climb up if they stop. So you rather need to add power than to brake.
It's a fairly different landing technique than on flat runways.
I've practised a field with very similar characteristics : maintain final approach power for flare and touchdown : you end up at taxi speed on the top platform.

If I was to land there with a different, larger type, I would reduce power to ensure touchdown and then see what happens. But I would still expect to have to add power, if the speeds are not much larger than the type I first used.

Easily computed with the kinetic vs potential energy equations.

[FullOppositeRudder]

I've been given to understand that in some years it's best avoided (for aviation purposes) for a few days :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X03g2gtwrWw

[phantomsphorever]

A PC-12 will have a landing speed of around 70 KIAS over the threshold - not exactly fast.
It has low pressure tires and a landing gear that can take a firm landing - and thereby kill some airspeed.
It has very good brakes.
It has thrust-reverse on the ground.

Bottom line - not the hardest aircraft to land at Courchevel!

But if you screw it up anyway - no problem - you still walk away :-)

[TheEdge]

...and they also employ ex F16 pilots on that belgian outfit !!

[punkalouver]

When I looked at the picture, the first thought I had was to wonder if the wingtip hit a somewhat solid snowbank.

[ATC Watcher]

When I looked at the picture, the first thought I had was to wonder if the wingtip hit a somewhat solid snowbank.
My thoughts too, if one could analyze better the skid marks in front of the fire truck. . Wind gust , or a tyre burst, any slight deviation at high speed and if the snowbank is higher than the wings and iced hard... ,
For me the 18 deg up slope is not the issue , but let's wait for the first crew interviews.

[phantomsphorever]

Supposedly a short landing that resulted in a bounce and then the a/c veered of the RWY.

[meleagertoo]

As a matter of interest how can an airline legally operate a "charter" flight - ie public transport into an airfield with no go-around possible?

[ATC Watcher]

As a matter of interest how can an airline legally operate a "charter" flight - ie public transport into an airfield with no go-around possible?
A go around is possible , there is just no procedures for it . This not unusual for altiports.. In practice, only below a certain decision height on short finals you cannot safely go around. due to the slope That's it.
BTW, in addition to a mountain qualification, you need a special approval to be allowed there if you are a public transport aircraft :
LFLJ : Public transport operations with airplanes is subject to:

- obtaining necessary approvals issued by the civil aviation authority in charge of monitoring the operator and,

- obtaining an authorization issued by the DSAC Centre Est based on a case file including approvals as referred above, operating instructions, operational limitations, TKOF and LDG procedures and engine failure procedures at TKOF related to each type of airplane concerned with the operations on this altiport.
-. Users are asked to join the DSAC Centre-Est to obtain any other information enabling them to set their operating instructions for this altiport and associated limitations, and submit their requests and case files

[JanetFlight]

As a matter of interest how can an airline legally operate a "charter" flight - ie public transport into an airfield with no go-around possible?
If my memory serves me well EAPC has no AOC//OL in CAT, so I really doubt if we can call it a charter or public transport... But of course I respect your point of view.

[CVividasku]

As a matter of interest how can an airline legally operate a "charter" flight - ie public transport into an airfield with no go-around possible?
There is no particular risk for a competent pilot. 70kt is a very slow speed, it's the same as some recreational airplanes.
This speed converts to 200ft of altitude, in terms of kinetical vs potential energy.
So, even with a complete braking failure and tyres rolling perfectly without friction, the airplane could land at courchevel and still stop within the runway.
There is no particular risk except if the throttle gets stuck to full power during the flare...
The speed is of course to be checked during the entire final.
Go around is feasible until a very late stage (but not during the flare indeed).
If you correctly aim the correct spot on the runway at the correct speed, from the moment you power back, there is no possibility of long landing.

[Tartiflette Fan]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228329432095200&set=gm.25202610129324255&idorvanity=496336950378249

This looks like a normal trailer-crane to me: would it be usual to need specialists to do this ? The other thing is that this photo was taken on Sat Feb 17th which would be one of the three busiest days of the year for traffic into Courchevel : probalby 10 hours of heavy traffic - including 6-7 hours of nose-to-tail traffic - in both directions and utterly impossible to insert something like that . Maybe they waited for night ( if the driver was still within his hours ! )

[markussollberger]

Have been rated for Courchevel for years and have been there numerous times. Have seen at least a demolished PC12, a King Air Super 90 and a Turbo Twin Commander. Successfully landing there is just a matter of training and knowledge of the speeds of your A/C.

Fun fact: on take off after getting airborne your VSI shows initially 500 ft/min rate of descent...

[2Planks]

Tartiflette Fan, can’t see your FB page. As far as I can work out from the local paper they had fuel contamination to deal with so the runway was unusable. The crane appeared on the runway late afternoon and the whole operation seemed to take less than an hour. You can see it all on the altiport webcam time lapse function.

https://m.webcam-hd.com/courchevel-mairie/altiport