Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Courchevel Savoie France. Crash on landing

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Courchevel Savoie France. Crash on landing

Old 17th Feb 2024, 12:18
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhone-Alpes
Posts: 1,172
Received 275 Likes on 154 Posts
Courchevel Savoie France. Crash on landing

Saturday Feb 17th. 10:30

An aeroplane tore off one wing on landing and the altiport is closed because of spilt fuel. Pilot and co-pilot slightly injured, taken to local doctor, not hospital

https://www.ledauphine.com/faits-div...e-a-courchevel
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 13:36
  #2 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,615
Received 290 Likes on 158 Posts
A Pilatus Pile Up, er, PC-12...

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/351757
treadigraph is online now  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 15:49
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 962
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/0...chevel-france/

https://m.webcam-hd.com/courchevel-mairie/altiport

Images from Airlive page and altiport webcam.




jimjim1 is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 17:45
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhone-Alpes
Posts: 1,172
Received 275 Likes on 154 Posts
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...96336950378249
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 18:06
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Down south
Age: 69
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It happened before with another PC12 at Couchevel, landed long and fast and hit the snowbank straight ahead at the end of the up sloping runway..........
markkal is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 18:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: France
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
... again and again and again... And in this case the same Belgian operator. Hard to believe. "Jamais une fois sans sans deux?" As a recent French BEA safety report just pointed out, this happens every year. Occasionally someone dies. Not this time, and that's good. But when will crews get properly trained? Courchevel is a piece of cake... really simple. But, like everything else, only if you know what long final, short final, and touchdown should look like, and what speeds, and nose up attitude in the flare (your are landing uphill) you need to nail it within 2 Kts and 1. Like flying an instrument approach. And if the wind's a problem you don't land. If you have a doubt, you don't land. It's that simple. Not rocket science by any any stretch of the imagination. Just basic... I repeat... basic , training, currency. Some call tit airmanship, but it's just common sense.
Dogflyer is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 19:12
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: same planet as yours
Posts: 547
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by markkal
It happened before with another PC12 at Couchevel, landed long and fast and hit the snowbank straight ahead at the end of the up sloping runway
sure you're not mixing things up with this Malibu accident?
DIBO is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 19:19
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: same planet as yours
Posts: 547
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
It did happen before to another PC12 ... from the same operator.... Landed short: https://bea.aero/les-enquetes/evenem...courchevel-73/
DIBO is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2024, 19:35
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,226
Received 14 Likes on 8 Posts
One does have to bring one's A++-game to Courchevel - every time! The "St. Barts of the Alps."
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 01:08
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Rhone-Alpes
Posts: 1,172
Received 275 Likes on 154 Posts
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
One does have to bring one's A++-game to Courchevel - every time! The "St. Barts of the Alps."
Well, there is plenty of decent restauration close by and - if you wait long enough - night-life albeit with a somewhat louche reputation.
Tartiflette Fan is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 06:38
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 66
Posts: 845
Received 41 Likes on 21 Posts
I recall the rather splendid Tyrolean Airways 50 seat Dash 7 charter operations in to this tiny airport.
Tyrolean Airways had lead the way with Dash 7 Ski flight Ops to Chambery airport, plus they also flew to the tiny mountain top airport of Courchevel where the airfield has a very short runway of only 537 metres with a gradient of 18.6%.




Rare footage of Tyroleans' Dash 7 landing at Courchevel.
This was so demanding that it does not have a go-around procedure.
Courchevel is a ski resort in the French Alps.
The Altiport (LFLJ) is famous for its sloping runway up to 18.5. The runway is 1755 ft (535 m) long and elevation of 6580 ft.

rog747 is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 10:46
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The South
Posts: 304
Received 54 Likes on 21 Posts
I spent may happy hours flyig those woderful aircraft. It was capable of some remarkable things and very safe as well.
Timmy Tomkins is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 10:52
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,492
Received 101 Likes on 61 Posts
Respect to any pilots landing at Courchevel, I don't think I could do it.

At 18.5 up-slope, could you stop safely on the runway, or do you have to get all the way to the top before you dare stop ?
Uplinker is online now  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 11:04
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: France
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The slope slows you down. It's not big deal. Just need to learn how.Like everything else.
Dogflyer is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 11:15
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: east ESSEX
Posts: 4,660
Received 68 Likes on 43 Posts
Largest a/c to land there...Herc or Transall...?
sycamore is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 15:57
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: France
Posts: 157
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Uplinker
Respect to any pilots landing at Courchevel, I don't think I could do it.

At 18.5 up-slope, could you stop safely on the runway, or do you have to get all the way to the top before you dare stop ?
With such a slope, some airplanes won't be able to climb up if they stop. So you rather need to add power than to brake.
It's a fairly different landing technique than on flat runways.
I've practised a field with very similar characteristics : maintain final approach power for flare and touchdown : you end up at taxi speed on the top platform.

If I was to land there with a different, larger type, I would reduce power to ensure touchdown and then see what happens. But I would still expect to have to add power, if the speeds are not much larger than the type I first used.

Easily computed with the kinetic vs potential energy equations.
CVividasku is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2024, 22:26
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Down Under somewhere not all that far from YPAD
Age: 79
Posts: 570
Received 14 Likes on 7 Posts
I've been given to understand that in some years it's best avoided (for aviation purposes) for a few days :


FullOppositeRudder is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2024, 04:43
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: here
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A PC-12 will have a landing speed of around 70 KIAS over the threshold - not exactly fast.
It has low pressure tires and a landing gear that can take a firm landing - and thereby kill some airspeed.
It has very good brakes.
It has thrust-reverse on the ground.

Bottom line - not the hardest aircraft to land at Courchevel!

But if you screw it up anyway - no problem - you still walk away :-)

Last edited by phantomsphorever; 19th Feb 2024 at 05:05.
phantomsphorever is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2024, 08:33
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: on the edge.
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...and they also employ ex F16 pilots on that belgian outfit !!
TheEdge is offline  
Old 19th Feb 2024, 12:23
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
When I looked at the picture, the first thought I had was to wonder if the wingtip hit a somewhat solid snowbank.
punkalouver is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.