Supply Stupidities

[Big Pistons Forever]

The B1 windshield thread got me thinking off some of the ridiculous goings on in the supply system I have experienced

1) When I was the deck officer on a small ship the Buffer informed me that the ship to buoy shackle was cracked. I told him to go to the base supply depot and get a new one. He called me from the depot saying they would not give him one because they only had one and if they gave it to us they would have none. I went down to explain that this part only fit our ship so we were the only ones who would ever want it, but they were adamant that the rules required them to always have one in stock. In the end it was simpler to get the fleet maintenance facility to weld repair the old shackle over forcing the supply system to cough up the part. :ugh:

2) Also as a junior officer many years ago I was the skipper of a 75 ft navy training vessel. We were doing a navigation course for 8 new officers and was in the days of old school gyro bearing position fixes plotted on a paper chart. I went to stores to get some supplies including a box of pencils. The reply from the Supply PO in a very aggrieved tone . I can't give you a whole box and besides I gave you TWO pencils last week ! :rolleyes:

3) As Captain of a minesweeper. In the early 1990's the Canadian Armed Forces transitioned from the excellent FN rifle in 7.62 to the C7 a Canadian knock off of the M16. The C 7 fires 5.56 rounds so when we were ordered to turn in our old rifles and ammo we gave back our 4 FN's and 1000 rounds of 7.62 Ops Stock and got 4 C7's an 971 rounds of 5.56. In fact the 1000 round box had been open and 29 rounds removed. When the crew reported this I called the Military Police to report a possible ammo theft. Well it turned out that the bin rats counted rifle ammo by cost not quantity and the 5.56 round was slightly more expensive so were were only eligible to be issued 971 rounds :hmm:

4) As CO of a land based unit I knew there was always a budget burn near the end of the fiscal year, so I placed an advanced order for some new lap top computers. Sure enough on the last day of the fiscal year my Admin clerk told me there was a truck at the door and I needed to go sign some papers. So I go to the parking lot and there is flat bed truck with a large wooden crate. I asked where were our laptops, and the reply was, "Dunno, but that box is for you". Examining the paper work I realized that yes it was addressed to my unit but instead of lap tops the supply system had sent me the computer for a submarine fire control system :uhoh:. My first thought was to sign for it and see what else showed up :}, but I resisted the urge. However it finally took the Base Commanders staff to sort out that mess, and I never did get my laptops :mad:

[Bill Macgillivray]

Send ' three and fourpence' we are going to a dance !!

[sandringham1]

An airline I was once acquainted with had a fleet of 737-200's. Soon after delivery Boeing realise a vital pin in the wing to fuselage joint was not to the latest production spec on some aircraft, so they issued a Service Bulletin listing the effected airframes. Boeing would supply the correct pins FOC, to be fitted at the first heavy maintenance input. A mod was raised, the parts ordered and on arrival they went into stock. Some six years later they were needed but had gone, disposed of in a stock reduction scheme as being none moving stock, sold to a parts trader who had sold them on to a less efficient operator who had not even ordered them when they were FOC. It cost a fortune for a small batch to be made.

[toller]

I remember years ago putting in a stores demand for an inexpensive Canberra spare only to be told that the M.U. holding the spare had no transport to dispatch a complete fuselage. Seems that somewhere in the system finger trouble occurred. Mine or theirs?

[Ninthace]

It can work in your favour, The gliding club I was with in RAFG came across a cable crimping tool that it was deemed could be useful on winch cables, but it was not complete. Through the supply system. we put in for a new tool from the good folks up near Carlisle and a new tool duly arrived, Then they woke up the fact that the Station had no need such a device and demanded it be returned. So we sent back the old one and honour was satisfied, we had one and the supply computer had one. Simples

[Mogwi]

First instance:
Hunter leg restraint garters got a bit worn so went to stores to get another pair - only to find that they only had one in stock! On further investigation, I was informed that they came in packs of three!

Second instance:
Second day after the Argentine invasion of the Falklands, I went to stores to draw a shoulder-holster for my personal piece, only to be informed that these were “war stocks” and couldn’t be issued. Small outburst remedied that!

Last (and most amazing) instance:
As the task force headed south in 1982, all stores requests for units involved became category 1 - ie get them there asap! A couple of weeks into the conflict a gert great box arrived on board Invincible containing a brand new ASW sonar. Unfortunately this could only be fitted when the ship was in dry dock because it was below the waterline. Resulted in a large, expensive splash!


Mog

[BEagle]

It might have been an apocryphal tale, but I heard that when Winston and Clementines' engine life was looking worrying, in some hangar in the depths of an MU some crates were discovered....

On which the word 'Derwent' was noted. Full paperwork was included, so the provenance was assured! Hence rather than being consigned to a future in MRDs (Machine Runway Deicer - a double Derwent and garden shed device), the engines made their way to the RAF's last airworthy Meteors!

[Gne]

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Which reminded me of a tale I was told about one of my previous employers who (before my time) purchased a number of fighter aircraft from a European supplier and was told there was a need for specialist screwdrivers to remove panels. These special screwdrivers were very expensive and after several were "misplaced" a very observant techo tried a cheap version he had seen in a home supply shop. Worked a charm so the box packers were instructed to purchase locally available Phillips Head screwdrivers.

Gne

[dervish]

Might I suggest anyone interested in this read David Hill's new book "Citadel of Waste". The scale of the waste is astonishing. There's a similar tale to Mogwi's about the sonar, the RAF stores wallahs tasking a Herc to land on HMS Ark Royal half way between Hong Kong and Sydney to deliver kit that wasn't needed.

[beardy]

I was told that an RB199 having been 'lost' at Stafford was subsequently found under the blanket that had been thrown over it to make a card table.

[keith williams]

Shortly after we deplyed to the South Atlantic in 1981, we found that the shuttle had been stolen from the survival equipment section sewing machine when the ship was in refit, so we demanded a replacement shuttle. A few weeks later we arrived in Montevideo to find a large crate awaiting us. It contained an entire new sewing machine. When we asked why we were told that the shuttle was not listed as a spare part, so they had sent the next higher assembly. From that day onwards whenever the other departments couldn't get what they wanted, the cry was always, Well the wafoos can have a f...... sewing machine so why can't we have this.

A few weeks later we received a Sea Harrier ejection seat gun. Very usefull in a Wasp Flight. Curiouser and curiouser.

[rattman]

I was told that an RB199 having been 'lost' at Stafford was subsequently found under the blanket that had been thrown over it to make a card table.


Know they lost an M113 in Australia. They sent it to have some work done on the engine, once the work was done the contractor contacted the unit. Somehow the message never went anywhere, they just left it in the back of the shop accumulating storage fees, every month the sent the bid to a govt and every month they paid it. It was about 6 months before someone clocked they were short an APC. After fervorishly searching someone put 2 and 2 together and worked out due to the storage fee where it was

Know the yanks lost a Humvee, it broke down on a public road, just outside a military exercise area. They left it there, some australians came past found the abandoned vehicle, only had a stuffed alternator and flat battery. So they put a new battery in and drove it somewhere for safe storage (allegedly the guys joyrided in it for a few days before it arrived) yanks left, it was a couple of months later before they went OH **** and had to fly in a C-17 to pick it up

[golfbananajam]

The B1 windshield thread got me thinking off some of the ridiculous goings on in the supply system I have experienced

1) When I was the deck officer on a small ship the Buffer informed me that the ship to buoy shackle was cracked. I told him to go to the base supply depot and get a new one. He called me from the depot saying they would not give him one because they only had one and if they gave it to us they would have none. I went down to explain that this part only fit our ship so we were the only ones who would ever want it, but they were adamant that the rules required them to always have one in stock. In the end it was simpler to get the fleet maintenance facility to weld repair the old shackle over forcing the supply system to cough up the part. :ugh:
:mad:

I have no doubt too that, after it having been on the shelf for a number of years and never having issued that part, the supply chain deemed it no longer required and disposed of it.

[NutLoose]

IIRC Odiham at one of the hangars, the boss wanted some little link chain to hang on the white entrance posts, chain duly ordered by length and several weeks later a low loader arrived with anchor chain on the back, they refused to take it back as it had been in their way for years, so it was piled up and concrete poured over it to make up a car servicing ramp for the car club.

[BEagle]

Sqn Ldr Ops at RAF Wattisham was being a bit arrogant demanding a 'Kojak' flashing amber light with a magnetic base for his service mini, so that he could rush around looking important.... Fortunately we had a brilliant OC Supply with a very dry sense of humour... So a few weeks later a parcel arrived at the Ops Room and the good Sqn Ldr eagerly unpacked it....only to find a standard RAFP blue light. He went into low earth orbit on the phone to Supply Wing where OC Supply went into full 'blunty' mode..."No Sir, it clearly states on your demand voucher blah, blah, blah!" After S/L Ops had seethed and ranted for a couple of hours, a lad turned up with a new box...with the amber light! Oh how we laughed when he realised that we'd all been in on the jape and that he'd been had!

Also at Wattisham I was required to check my 'Clothing Card' before being posted. Whereupon I found that it still included a Gnat-specific oxygen mask and Gnat-specific g-suit, neither of which were any use on other aircraft. I explained that not only had I handed all my Gnat AEA in when I'd left Valley 8 years earlier, but the RAF didn't even have any Gnats left - the last had left service about 3 years ago! That didn't satisfy the stores people though - they expected me to pay £LOTS! Fortunately a Flt Sgt in SCAF was also one of 'my' Anglia gliding instructors and he came up with a solution. Two 'unserviceable' labels with all the right stores references were duly produced and handed over to the storeman, who was then able to write these non-existent items off my card!

[teeteringhead]

If I can expand this to movers - who were sort of suppliers by trade - I must retell a tale from my first tour, 78 Sqn in Sharjah.

We flew Wessex, as did the SAR Flight at Muharraq (Bahrein), but 78 normally kept the "Command Spare" unless and until it was needed by the SAR bo(u)ys.

Which they did on one occasion when Baby Pilot Teeters got to deliver it. The SOP was to wait a couple of days to see if they got enough serviceable (enjoying the fleshpots of Bahrein) to give the spare back. If they didn't - as in this case - the delivery crew jumped on the "bus run" Argosy to go home to Sharjah.

Which meant going through Movements in flying kit....

Baby Mover: indicating Mae West "What's that??"

Teeters: "Err, a Mae West..."

BM: "No, what's that?" indicating red knob and inflation bottle.

Teeters: "CO2 bottle to inflate the jacket."

BM: "Aha - compressed gas! Dangerous Air Cargo - can't take it on board!"

So dear friends, my Mae West was so dangerous, it had to remain in Bahrein.........

You couldn't make it up...

[Ken Scott]

Not strictly a supply issue but this did involve members of the supply branch (aka ‘movers’).

I was tasked to fly to Keflavik to collect a load that was listed as ‘priority freight’ and I would conduct training for the pilots there and back as well. The movers then said that due to ground handling restrictions at Brize Norton (the infamous ‘MOG’ - Movement on Ground) they couldn’t allow us to fly… Ops then said that we would fly the trip but empty (circa £40k/hr) thus achieving our training and another ac would be laid on to collect the load later in the week (at £40k/hr).

I suggested that this was completely absurd and spoke to OC Movements who had been one of my students many years before and the task was permitted to go ahead and collect the load.

[BEagle]

teeteringhead, there was almost a similar event at Akrotiri when I was on the VC10K. Some Tornado aircrew had asked if we could take them back to the UK, rather than them suffering the misery of a Hercules trip. Of course we said yes!

The Air Eng was 'Caring Ken, the Airmans' Friend' who thought that, as an ex-trucky Master Engineer, his word was always correct. "We can't bring them back - they've got miniflares in their life preservers...", quoth he, "...and that's Dangereous Air Cargo!".

Fortunately the Captain didn't have much time for shiny-fleet triv. "We're taking them AND their kit, Ken..."
"But....but".
"Anyway, Ken, WTF do you think is in the life preservers under our seats? Yes, miniflares amongst other things!"

So the Tornado AEA was duly stuffed into a couple of large gash bags and put behind the rear row of seats - and back we came, to deliver the Tornado mates to their base. Which had the added advantage of quick customs clearance rather than the tedium of our own.

[ShyTorque]

After the “Atlantic Conveyor” sank, during the Falklands War, it was calculated that considering all the stores subsequently written off as on board the ship at the time, it would probably have gone down in the harbour where it was all allegedly first loaded.

Later, back in W. Germany, we couldn’t get any replacement aircrew clothing for a long time afterwards because apparently it had all gone to the sea bottom. Then some “war stock” was found. I was issued with some (rather yellowed :yuk:) aircrew long johns and long sleeved vests with labels bearing the old WD arrows and the year 1941! How we all loved those hardened rubber buttons on the flies that were too big to go through the button holes…. :rolleyes:

[ORAC]

Falkland Island souvenirs….

a supply of ABDR kits was held in the Falklands, some sort of bi-metallic where two parts were mixed and moulded into place before setting. At the time, back in 1980s, wee were told they cost about £500 a pop and had a shelf life of about 1 year.

Supply was through the army so RAF orders were delivered to army in UK who shipped everything by sea via Ascension and other places enroute. Average time between order and delivery was, reputedly, about 9 months. Meaning kits were just about lifex on arrival, so more were ordered on a quarterly basis and lifex kits distributed to units to make “gozhomey” souvenirs.
.

Not sure how many were ordered at a time but the number supplied to units was plentiful. Still have my souvenir from Alice 35 years later….

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[MPN11]

Real trivia ... I had a pair of aircrew sunglasses [with correcting lenses] from my brief RN days. Some years later, at Tengah, they went u/s [can't recall the exact problem] so I went to Stores seeking a replacement. "Sorry, Sir, they're not on your Clothing Card, so we can't do that."

OK, Plan B ... I return to Stores with a mate from one of the Sqns so that he can do the exchange. No problem, he gets new sunglasses. At which point the 'Not A Supplier' hands aircrew mate the old pair with a cheerful "Here you are, Sir, in case you need a replacement."

[Mogwi]

I was duty man at VL one evening, for night flying. At the time, we had a T4 on detachment to Wittering for the strip-operating part of the conversion course. One of the detachment maintainers needed new batteries for his Pusser’s torch but Wittering stores didn’t have any. He therefore requested a local purchase order, so that he could get 2xU2 batteries from the NAAFI shop.

Stores at VL refused to authorise it because they had plenty of stock at base and when I remonstrated with them, they suggested that we flew some up in a Sea Harrier, as we were doing night flying anyway! I went to Cdr (S) with the problem and he rightly blew a fuse and the boys got their LPO!

Mog

[NutLoose]

Brize, requiring a headset so I could carry out runs on the VC10's, we find we are not entitled to an issue and that they were B or A stores I think.. which sort of defeated the object of the exercise as you couldn't do a run without talking to people.

Browsing through the system we found every part was a C store, I.e consumable and throw away parts, so we ordered every part for several headsets and built our own, system circumvented.

[ShyTorque]

Ah, good old “C Class”, stores - disposable, non valuable, non returnable items.


I was at Odiham when the (ex Vulcan, there’s a clue) Station Commander hired out the Officers’ Mess to Mercedes for a new vehicle launch. We were unable to go in, even for lunch. We weren’t impressed because there was no aircrew feeder but we did laugh when the new Mercedes advertisement banners went up outside.

They were launching the “C Class” cars.

Apparently the build quality had gone down a little…

[BEagle]

Learning Command had a strange sense of priorities when it came to the topic of night flying torches. It was OK to issue ab initio students with 'Provosts, Jet....Qty 1' for night flying, but torches? Err, no! We were told to provide our own, which had to be attached to our flying suits with the usual bit of string....

One chap dropped his in flight and started pulling on the string until he felt resistance. It had got caught in his lower bang seat handle which was partially out of its housing. So he gingerly replaced it and landed asap.

Another chap was given a simulated total electrics failure. From one leg pocket he produced a lantern on a croc clip which he attached to the coaming. Then he fumbled in the other pocket for a switch... The whole cockpit lit up as if a nuclear bomb had gone off - it was one of those lanterns which farmers used when hunting for lost beasts! QFI and student lost all night vision for a good few minutes, with the QFI laughing hysterically!

After a couple of nights of this nonsense, the CI decided that enough was enough and ordered that we should be issued with those official black stick torches, which were all but useless!

[Ninthace]

If, to a first approximation, light travels in straight lines, why does the RAF issue right angle torches? :)

[higthepig]

If, to a first approximation, light travels in straight lines, why does the RAF issue right angle torches? :)
Designed at great expense as a means to carry dead batteries around I think.

[NutLoose]

And to be multi-directional, so when clipped to your pocket or webbing, they would point in every direction but forward where needed.

[ShyTorque]

If, to a first approximation, light travels in straight lines, why does the RAF issue right angle torches? :)

Every possible corner was cut.

When I was going through the JP course at Linton on Ouse, my torch (which was rectangular, about 5”x4”x1”) had one of those strange, flat sided batteries with two different length brass contact strips. It was all but useless in the cockpit, but it finally came in useful when we were “pulled” for our week long survival exercise, where we had to find our own food or starve. Our flying kit was searched for any unauthorised goodies. Any cash found on our person was confiscated and presumably put in the staff beer fund. My torch was taken, the battery removed and it was checked inside. One of my colleagues had an identical torch and had put a couple of “OXO” cubes in the bottom of his, which were taken away.

Nothing was found in my torch and it was given back to me without comment. However, thinking ahead, one evening some time before, I’d carefully peeled off the paper label from the battery, ironed a ten pound note to a suitable size, tightly wrapped it round the battery then glued the label back over it. Came in very useful later when we were able to find a farmer willing to sell us some contraband. :E

[ItsonlyMeagain]

At Lyneham on standby, I was called in to fly to Botswana to take a new engine for a SF Herc on task there. Aircraft duly loaded with a new engine and most importantly, a propellor removal device in a large wooden crate strapped to a large pallet. we subsequently routed via Akrotiri and Nairobi and arrived to find the sick Herc missing. It had been operating in a non standard manner….

Anyway as it was v hot the engine change took place at night with a local crane removing the old engine and prepared for its prop to be removed. The big box with the removal device was opened and despite much rummaging all it contained was straw! A new one had to be sent with BA via Johannesburg which took some time to arrive.

Anyway, this gave me a few days to enjoy the delights (and they were) of Gaborone with a trip to Johannesburg (another story).

So, stores had done a wonderful job in getting us to transport an empty box to the very bottom of Africa where I had a most pleasant time with a total time away of about 10 days. With my previous tour having been on the Puma, I found the way of life most acceptable.

Me

[ShyTorque]

With my previous tour having been on the Puma, I found the way of life most acceptable.

Are you saying that you didn’t enjoy living in the field in a 7’ by 5’ tent with not enough pegs and a pole missing?

No, neither did I. ;)​​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

After the “Atlantic Conveyor” sank, during the Falklands War, it was calculated that considering all the stores subsequently written off as on board the ship at the time, it would probably have gone down in the harbour where it was all allegedly first loaded.

my father was ground crew on a Beaufighter strike squadron out of Shetland. Over about 3 winter months they did v little flying and lost no-one. Then, regretfully, they did an op and lost a single aircraft. He said it could never have got off the ground according to the list of items written off against it when it didn't return. 2x 30ft extendable ladders was just the start..................

[teeteringhead]

Came in very useful later when we were able to find a farmer willing to sell us some contraband. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif Shy - considerably more honourable than a guy I was on a survival course with once.

He went down to the local village, and with the help of his "Wilkie Knife" (remember those?) "persuaded" a local to donate his fish 'n' chips!

He (not the local) was subsequently chopped at Valley for smoking wacky baccy..........

[tu chan go]

I was detachment commander on a Tornado GR1 visit to Goose Bay, Canada. We needed a replacement engine (can’t remember why) so I ordered one through the system. Then I got a call from Command Supply (sic) - they would deliver the engine by rail. When I pointed out that there was no railway line that reached Goose Bay, they told me that there was a railway station on the map. Only once I’d pointed out that the line in question only ran for a few miles inland to some forgotten mining location did they agree to send the engine......by road! Despite informing them that the only surface access involved a drive up very questionable roads through countless miles of forest, they insisted that this was the cheapest way to ge the engine to us.

When the truck eventually arrived, the manifest said “2 Tornado engines” (or words to that effect). But there was only one on the flatbed truck - one had fallen off “somewhere along the road”!! So much for the cheapest option!!

[oxenos]

Gan, 1960's, Search and Reascue Shackleton . On walkaround the F.E. discovered a cut in one of the tyres. No problem, Gan was required to keep a spare Shack. wheel/tyre assembly at all times.
Suppliers refused to release it, because if they did they would not have one available, and that would be against the rules.
Very short discussion between the Shack. Captain, the Supply Officer and the Station Commander.

[NutLoose]

Aldergrove, Wessex AOG for a genny, sent AOG from Odiham and arrived packed to perfection, on removing it a huge dent found in the side, the Storeman packing it had dropped it from quite a height and fearful of getting charged had packed it and sent it AOG, needless to say he did get charged and a replacement had to be sent. He had made such a good job of packing it, damage in transit was impossible.

[Ken Scott]

There is a common theme to many of these stories, that of the ‘it’s the last one so you can’t have it’ ilk. I was in RAF Sek Kong, we were deploying out to an island for a few days (Ping Chau or ‘Snake Island’ ) so I went with an other fellow to stores to get a blue holdall. The storeman handed me one but when my compatriot asked for one too he received the ‘I only have one left so you can’t have it’ reply,

No amount of arguing would make him give way, I never understood the problem but suspect that it might be that to have zero quantity in stock was against the rules or perhaps they wouldn’t know where to put them on the shelf when new stock arrived?

Many years later I was at Basrah on the C130J det. One of our ac had a problem with its Stby AI, we couldn’t snag it as that would ground the ac (it was a no go item) and it would take most of a week to get one sent out (the J supply system was meant to be a Just-in-time process from the warehouse in Wootton Basset but that wasn’t quite so effective for detached ops). We ended up flying it for ages rather than lose an important asset, I think until it was rotated back home for servicing.

[Saintsman]

I'm reminded of the cartoon showing an irate engineer at the stores hatch, with the Storeman saying "It's no good you pointing at it, the computer says it's out of stock"...

[Geriaviator]

Our inimitable Danny42C recalled a serious loss on the Brevet thread, immortalised as a sticky at the head of this forum. A Japanese air raid on his northern Indian airfield had claimed the lives of several airmen, a couple of Vengeance divebombers and his flight’s highly prized 15cwt pickup, their only means of reaching civilisation on their few days’ leave. Over to Danny, and his book In with a Vengeance:

The other loss was a most valuable item of Government property. Before you pour concrete for your new tracks and taxiways, you have to put in hardcore and ram it down. They had no steamrollers, but a Works and Bricks elephant made a very good substitute.

Jumbo marked time ponderously, helping himself to any edible vegetation within trunk reach. His mahout keeper moved him a few feet from time to time as the job required. All was calm and content. Jumbo much preferred this to hauling heavy logs in the forest, Of course he was a great favourite of all, and his mahout had nothing to do except smoke his malodorous "bidi".

Then the air raid warning came. The mahout ran for it, leaving Jumbo to his own devices. In all fairness, there wasn't much he could do other than digging a slit trench to hold an elephant, and then persuading him into it. The bombs came down and Jumbo vanished. We found no bloodstains and concluded that he had been stung by a piece of hot shrapnel

Whatever had hit him did not impede his locomotion. "B" Flight, who were untouched by the raid on the far side of the runway, saw him galloping along it with trunk, ears and tail outstretched, and bellowing with indignation. He went trumpeting off the end into the hills and was never seen again. A tracker party found no body, assumed that he had decided to give civilisation a miss. And who could blame him?

But that wasn't the end of it. This was no common or garden elephant. He was Government property, registered and on inventory. His loss must be investigated; there was an endless Court of Enquiry in which we were witnesses.

Indian bureaucracy is a wondrous thing. It rather seemed that they regarded the loss of their precious elephant as our fault, they thought that the RAF should pay for it, and I was told a trained elephant costs as much as a new pick-up truck.

How the saga ended I do not know, for shortly afterwards Stew and I, with three other crews, were posted to 8 Sqn, IAF, somewhere on the other side of the Bay.

[hoodie]

I'm reminded of the cartoon showing an irate engineer at the stores hatch, with the Storeman saying "It's no good you pointing at it, the computer says it's out of stock"...
There was another one IIRC, which had Storeman Norman pointing at the sign above his hatch and asking the hapless erk:

"What does that say, Laddie?"

"'Stores', Norman", says the erk.

"EXACTLY, son. If they wanted you to have it, the sign would say "Issues", wouldn't it?"

[ex82watcher]

Not related to aviation,but when I was posted to Eastern Radar (civil),in 1982,we bought a 2 -year old bungalow about 10 miles from Watton,which had a 'Hygena' kitchen fitted.We wanted a couple of extra base units,so went to the Hygena shop in Norwich,and ordered these,along with a roll of 'Formica' about 4m long,and 10cm wide,with associated double-sided adhesive tape,to fix it to the plinth and cover the joints.The cardboard boxes of flat-packed furniture duly arrived,and when I opened the one containing the tape,which seemed unnecessarily large,there was not one roll,but 2 dozen.Very useful stuff,and I am still using the remaining ones to this day,42 years later!

[MightyGem]

I went to stores to draw a shoulder-holster for my personal piece, only to be informed that these were “war stocks” and couldn’t be issued. Small outburst remedied that!
Back in a former life, I was i/c the Sqn map store. With a TOW shoot coming up, I ordered some Range Safety maps. When they didn't arrive, I phoned to enquire why. I was told that all they had left were their "war stock".

I pointed out that if war was declared Germany would become a two way range and those maps wouldn't be of much use.

Still had to get my boss to phone his boss to solve the problem though.

[India Four Two]

If, to a first approximation, light travels in straight lines, why does the RAF issue right angle torches? https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

They were designed so you could hold one comfortably in a Chipmunk cockpit at night, while trying to illuminate the fuel guages in the wings!

Note I said "trying". :)

[Ninthace]

I was issued with a natty leather shoulder holster for a heady few days. After that, I tried to return it, but stores were having none of it and it followed me for the rest of my career, I couldn't even hand it in on retirement and I have never needed to play 007 since.

Then there was the time at Gütersloh when I was needed to play with the Harrier Force in Sennelager. It was a coldish German winter so I thought some cold weather gloves would come in handy. I popped into stores on the way to lunch to ask for a pair, only to be told they didn't have any. I carried on to the Mess where I chanced to meet the baby Supply Officer at the front door. I asked him what kind of ship he was running that did not stock cold weather gloves in winter? He promptly took me back to stores, went behind the counter and found a pair my size. Then he asked me who had said there weren't any. I pointed out the guilty party, whereupon he asked me if I could make my own way back to the Mess. I did not ask what happened but after that they seemed to have what I needed,

[Red Line Entry]

A story slightly relating to our friendly blanket-stackers….

In the late 1980s, the decision was made by their Airships that Supply Sqns would no longer be the responsibility of Admin Wg, but would transfer to Eng Wg across the whole air force. At Leuchars, we had an ex-airman MTO with a wicked sense of humour. On the day of the transfer he sent a memo to OC Admin informing him that as the number of officers under his command had fallen to a critical number, he was no longer entitled to his service Metro and was kindly to return it to MT immediately.

OC Admin fell for it completely and much wailing went on in Handbrake House until the jape was revealed!

[longer ron]

Almost on topic -
During the 70's the poor chap who 'Blew' Canberra Canopies (Hood Coupe in the IPC :) ) unfortunately died,apparently there was nobody else trained up :eek:.
After some considerable time canopies became available again,although the first few out of t'factory were limited to day flying only due to distortion/substandard optical checks.
I doubt they were easy to manufacture as they were a 'Double Bubble' with an air gap between inner and outer perspex.

IPC = Illustrated Parts Catalogue

[bspatz]

In the late 60s I was working in the supply squadron at RAF Fairford when it was operating two aircraft types Hercules and Concorde! One day one of our SNCOs came across a box that had just been delivered which was, unusually, covered in labels. Further examination revealed that it was a piece of test equipment which was scaled for use by every Hercules operating base and had, according to the labels, indeed been to every Hercules unit at least once, including overseas bases such as Changi and Akrotiri. Trying to understand what was going on we discovered that the culprit was the RAF’s supply central computer which as soon as a unit posted receipt of the item sent an issue order to despatch it to another location before it was possible to issue it internally to the user. As a result, this piece of test equipment had been in perpetual transit for months possibly years and had not been for a sharp eyed SNCO might have continued to travel the world for many more years.

[oxenos]

Kinloss, winter, mid 60's. Stores run out of de-icing fluid for the Shackleton, which had a system of pumping the fluid out of porous strips on the leading edge of the wings and tailplane.
Supply Officer could not understand why there was not enough. He had (allegedly) looked in the Autumn at how much had been used in the previous quarter and ordered accordingly for the next quarter.
Presumably to him it was just another Section/ Ref. No.

[ORAC]

280SU Cyprus, top of mountain with up to 26ft of snow in winter and prolonged sub-zero temperatures.

Mid-1970s and post invasion and rundown, MT section puts in order for usual winter anti-freeze. Signal comes back in reply from UK, “Please explain request for anti-freeze in a sub-tropical climate”.

Raised almost as much of a laugh as when the army brought up all their new diesel trucks up to the leave centre, parked them overnight, and all their engine blocks froze and split overnight…

[Fortissimo]

BFT Cranwell in the late 70s, and a shortage of 'Bags, Navigation'. An edict was issued requiring any BFT student with a nav bag, to which we were apparently not entitled, to return them to stores ASAP so they could be re-issued to the Nav students who really needed them. One of my mates dutifuly took his bag back and handed it over, despite having added his initials in big black letters on the front flap. A few days later, said easily identifiable bag was seen being toted round the Stn in the flying-gloved hands of OC Supply Flt, a young Fg Off. A suggestion of some percussive counselling from the aggrieved previous owner was substituted for some more professional advice from the chap's boss, which seemed to do the trick as the bag was not seen again.

Like Mogwi, I also ran into the leg restraint garter buffoonery when North Luffenham was unable to provide during pre-Hawk kitting. Stores at Valley: "Can I have a set of leg restraints, please?" "Just a moment, sir..." And then: "Sorry, we only have one left, we can't do a pair." When I asked why they only had one, I was told it was a supply process designed to ensure a re-order. In reply to my next and obvious comment, he told me that they didn't know there was only one left until I asked for a set!

Falklands, F4 detachment at Stanley. The engineering system had correctly decided it would be better to do Minor* servicings in theatre than return aircraft to the UK. The supply system was informed of the requirement for the apropriate toolkit and, shortly thereafter, most F4 sqns were short of tools as they had been recalled and sent south. Why the suppliers thought it would be a good plan to send 9 Minor toolkits so that we could do all the aircraft at once is anyone's guess.

Falklands RTB, handing in those items issued in theatre, which included sea boots and the steel tortoise helmets (remember those?). My nav had unfortunately misplaced his tortoise, but the problem was easily fixed. I went first, and handed over my helmet and then the boots, which were stowed some distance apart. As the storeman took my boots down the counter to the boot section, my nav reached forward and retrieved my helmet from the rack. Storeman arrives back and is handed 1 helmet and 1 pair of boots. A very satisfying result!

[Mogwi]

When MOGWI snr was de-mobbed in 1946, he rather wanted to keep his “lucky” Irvin flying jacket. He noticed that any returned jackets that were not serviceable were being burnt on a bonfire, behind stores. Queue a quick, night raid on the smouldering heap, which supplied an unserviceable jacket that could be duly returned into the system, instead of his “old friend”.

I still have it!

Mog

[ShyTorque]

I still have a brand new nav bag in my wardrobe. I had replaced the old one, because with almost twenty years of use, it had big holes in the bottom corners.

However not long after, I decided with three months to go signing up to another seventeen years as “Spec Aircrew”, that I’d really had enough of being a pawn in aspirational Chiefs of the Air Staff’s careers, so I gave up and took my 38 point option to become a civvie.

Never got to use the nav bag and stores wouldn’t take it back.

[Shackman]

Some of you may remember (early 70's IIRC) a story in Air Clues of a storeman who was badly injured using 'incorrect' equipment in 'the stores'. It seemed this particular unit had some high level shelves, but had fallen foul of the 'not entitled' edict when asking for a ladder to reach the upper levels; however, having been a Bomber Command station of long standing, it still had a stock of Lancaster boarding ladders, so an enterprising storeman had started using one, which had eventually become normal practice in the stores. Now these ladders had steel feet (very slippery) and a small hook at the top to go over the door rim. Of course, along came a new young airman who was tasked to get something off the top shelf - and you know where this is going.
Needless to say after the subsequent BoI the unit solved the lack of correct ladder by ordering a whole load of very expensive 'low level' shelving and then having to move to a larger building to get it all in.

[gopher01]

While at Laarbruch and suffering from a shortage of towbars we also worked the supply system by ordering a selection of C stores which when assembled resembled a Tornado tow bar.

[NutLoose]

Posted into RAF Bruggen and as the new boy on the Sqn I was told I was going on a MaxiMash exercise playing casualties at RAF Wegberg.

Depression set in until I arrived and we all were gathered together and told the ropes., pointing to several tents we were informed we would dress the part and old clothing had been provided to be torn, so wounds, protruding bones, fake blood etc could be added to make up realistic casualties etc.

Entering the tents we were all astonished to find them filled with uniform returns, probably from the whole of the Army and RAF, flying boots, jackets, combat kit, shirts, the whole nine yards, it was like Christmas at the sweetie shop, everyone’s kit bags fair bulged with the gathered loot and little of it made it to the exercise..

I became a dab hand recycling worn kit through clothing stores thus insuring enough returned kit for the next exercise.
Back at work they couldn’t understand why I volunteered for the next one.

​​​​​​…

[aloominumtoob]

Slight thread drift. 1969, ex-Blanket Stacker, Gripper, I've got it, you try and get it, whatever, now a Mover. Posted to U.K.M(ovements) A(nswer) to the (Muppet) S(how). Issued with a pair of matt black wellies. They gave up on me last year.
alt

[ancientaviator62]

RAF C130K u/s at Dulles with a duff ASI. Send home fora new one.Box duly arrives and when opened contained a clock ! Crew back to the hotel' Next box arrives is opened and found to be empty.! Crew back to the hotel. Finally the correct item did arrive. I would have loved to eardrop on the conversations that went on back at Lyneham.

[Krystal n chips]

RAF C130K u/s at Dulles with a duff ASI. Send home fora new one.Box duly arrives and when opened contained a clock ! Crew back to the hotel' Next box arrives is opened and found to be empty.! Crew back to the hotel. Finally the correct item did arrive. I would have loved to eardrop on the conversations that went on back at Lyneham.

On a par with civvie equivalent.

Ordered a Capt. seat armrest for A319...box arrives feeling suspiciously heavy. Opened to reveal large pitot head with large label attached with BIG RED letters saying... "SCRAP "

[Exrigger]

Cannot remember which Tornado unit I was on at the time, but some bright spark saw gearbox oil in the RAF supply network and being clever and resourceful decided that gearbox oil must be for vehicles and as the Army had control of vehicle consumables the item was duly transferred to Army control, so one less item to be stored and managed by the RAF supply chain.

On ordering some oil for the Wing Sweep Actuator Gearboxes for said Tornado I was informed that item was Army controlled and for vehicle use only, on asking who had decided this, no answer forthcoming, and were they aware that a Tornado aircraft was now grounded by this daft notion, silence from other end, it took a while for some clever people to try and get ground use oil back into the RAF supply chain so it could be issued and used for the only ‘vehicle’ it was used in.

While on deployment with 18 Squadron we ordered a part and two of us were dispatched to pick it as it was weekend and supply were unable to deliver within the timescale required, On turning up Saturday morning we were met by a young lad who said they could not locate item as the stores computer was down, we said “why not use the Kardex system”, to which his response was “what is that”, when explained that it was the supply chain manual backup he had no idea as he was never told about it, luckily we knew where it was and just hoped it was being kept updated, it was and we were soon on our way back to our lovely field.

[L1011effoh]

Kinloss, winter, mid 60's. Stores run out of de-icing fluid for the Shackleton, which had a system of pumping the fluid out of porous strips on the leading edge of the wings and tailplane.
Supply Officer could not understand why there was not enough. He had (allegedly) looked in the Autumn at how much had been used in the previous quarter and ordered accordingly for the next quarter.
Presumably to him it was just another Section/ Ref. No.

Similarly in Mount Pleasant in the late 90s, no de-icing fluid available because the Supply organisation in the UK hadn’t actioned MPN’s order as they couldn’t understand why it had been ordered in summer!

[beardy]

Posted into RAF Bruggen and as the new boy on the Sqn I was told I was going on a MaxiMash exercise playing casualties at RAF Wegberg.

Depression set in until I arrived and we all were gathered together and told the ropes., pointing to several tents we were informed we would dress the part and old clothing had been provided to be torn, so wounds, protruding bones, fake blood etc could be added to make up realistic casualties etc.

Entering the tents we were all astonished to find them filled with uniform returns, probably from the whole of the Army and RAF, flying boots, jackets, combat kit, shirts, the whole nine yards, it was like Christmas at the sweetie shop, everyone’s kit bags fair bulged with the gathered loot and little of it made it to the exercise..

I became a dab hand recycling worn kit through clothing stores thus insuring enough returned kit for the next exercise.
Back at work they couldn’t understand why I volunteered for the next one.

​​​​​​…
Isn't that fraud and theft?

[BEagle]

Isn't that fraud and theft?

Quite so! Just as the fraudulent behaviour of a certain Sqn Ldr at a unit on which I was stationed who had no qualms about 'asking' airmen to exchange his worn DMS shoes for him, rather than paying for said items as an officer should.

[Haraka]

OK One of mine.! My Flt Sgt (Photog) regaled me with a tale of a camera spare he ordered in Singapore.
After months it arrived in the docks but was held from him pending the availiabiity of a Queen Mary Low loader.
Which was what was required to transport a Shackleton Main Spar
HONEST!!!!

[ex82watcher]

I still have a brand new nav bag in my wardrobe. I had replaced the old one, because with almost twenty years of use, it had big holes in the bottom corners.

However not long after, I decided with three months to go signing up to another seventeen years as “Spec Aircrew”, that I’d really had enough of being a pawn in aspirational Chiefs of the Air Staff’s careers, so I gave up and took my 38 point option to become a civvie.

Never got to use the nav bag and stores wouldn’t take it back.

The CAA used to issue those nav-bags to ATC examiners,but at some time ceased to do so,as I remember a memo circulating,possibly around 1995,offering them for sale to anyone who wanted one for £10 each.

[ShyTorque]

As far as stuff “walking” from stores goes, the first Courts Martial I attended was for the prosecution of a store man who was stealing stuff to order. He’d had his own keys cut and had access 24/7. He got to do daily PT at Colchester, after which he got to wear his civvies.

Years later I went into a newly opened military supplies shop in Hong Kong. On proud display was a full set of RAF cold weather flying gear, which looked brand new and unused. It had helicopter squadron badges and even better, a personalised “Wings” patch, with the name of a pilot I knew quite well! That type of patch wasn’t issued from stores, they had to be purchased by the individual. I asked the shop owner where he sourced his stuff and he told me he’d bought a consignment of RAF clothing at a car boot sale near London!

[NutLoose]

Isn't that fraud and theft?

More like a loan as they got it all back as I cleared from the RAF as I had no use for it.. Most people had the odd extra shirts etc they gained during their service, stores used to give the old items back sometimes. Most of the stuff I exchanged was the stuff I was issued with as the other items were in much better condition.


..

[Fortyodd2]

At a certain Brigade Headquarters in the East of England in the mid 80's, the Chief Clerk was somewhat irked by the constant disappearance of the useful coloured felt tip "Notewriter" pens from his desk. Being a generous sort, he decided that he would order enough to issue each member of the 32 HQ Staff, (from Brigadier to Corporal) with their own supply - thus ensuring his would not continually go walkies. He thought he'd found just the thing in the catalogue - a box of 12, 2 x Black, 2 x Blue, 2 x Red and 6 other useful colours. Sorted.
When a delivery lorry turned up a couple of weeks later, he received 32 "Boxes", each "Box" contained 4 "Cartons", Each "Carton" contained 36 "Packs" of 12. Over 55,000 felt tip pens.....Oh how we laughed!
What was never understood was why nobody at the Stores end of the chain thought that it was an unusual amount to send out on a single request or even question it.

[teeteringhead]

the Supply organisation in the UK hadn’t actioned MPN’s order as they couldn’t understand why it had been ordered in summer! Puts me in mind of the MQs that were built at MPA one time I was there. The first and biggest was for CBFFI of course.

They were prefab type buildings - imagine if IKEA built houses!

Were assembled by a specialist (sic) team from IIRC Croydon. Very nice house - shame about the South-facing sun lounge.........

[Exrigger]

Fourtyodd2 as per your comment, I often wondered why the quantities to be delivered were never questioned by those in the supply chain, as you said it was an extraordinary amount above the usual amounts demanded in all cases.

Changing the order quantities was another great waste of time and expense:

When we set up the BDR kits at RAF Honington (for the Tornado), I ordered enough corrosion inhibitor to fill the spray bottles in each kit and for top ups, listed as being in pints I ordered the required amount, several weeks later supply phoned and say a fork lift truck was on its way with my order, bit puzzled when it arrive and there was four 50 gallon drums of the stuff, found out they changed the quantities from pints to drums without updating the system.

RAF Gutersloh ran out of white A4 paper and there was none available in the supply system, when I went to a nearby Army base to look at a replacement car, the RSM who was selling asked me if I had a use for white A4 paper, asked him why and he told me he ordered the usual amount of A4 paper for work and an articulated lorry had turned up with every last box of paper in the system, the reason, supply had changed the quantities from reams to boxes containing 5 reams each. When I picked up the car he kindly loaded the boot, back seat and passenger seat with as many boxes as he could fit in and I re-distributed them around Gutersloh until normal supplies resumed.

Another quantity change happened when I was down the Falkland Island, I was stitched up as the BDR inventory holder and checked the two part putty filler and it was long out of date, gave the old stuff to the guys who made the model slates for leaving gizzits and ordered the replacements, which should have been separate tubes. A new supply SNCO phoned and told me I could not have the stuff as it was classed as high value and he objected to the old stuff being wasted on the gizzits, I explained that I had to have the items or the BDR kits would be deficient and utilising the stuff for a worthy cause was better than just destroying it, but he was having none of it. I escalated the issue through the chain of command and was visited by a supply officer and said SNCO, the officer was great and when we finished our discussion he told his SNCO to issue me what I had ordere. When it arrived it was 12 boxes of 10 packets, I tried to return the surplus but the SNCO was having none of it so the gizzit team had plenty to use before I left.

[beardy]

Quite so! Just as the fraudulent behaviour of a certain Sqn Ldr at a unit on which I was stationed who had no qualms about 'asking' airmen to exchange his worn DMS shoes for him, rather than paying for said items as an officer should.
My IOT flight commander, a supply branch officer, was court martialled (sp?), jailed and dismissed for several counts of fraud.

[Biggus]

Beardy - they used to say that some IOT flight commanders were posted to Cranwell in the hope that while teaching the cadets to be officers they might learn how to be one themselves.

Whether that is correct or not I couldn't possibly comment.

[Geriaviator]

One of Danny 42C’s many priceless stories on the Brevet thread involved his command of 1315 Flight, set up in 1945 to carry out mustard gas trials on India’s Malabar coast. He takes up the story after requesting a small boat for air-sea rescue.
I was allocated a 24 ft Bomb Scow, whatever that might be. However, before this fine vessel could appear, I had to prepare moorings which were specified as three stone blocks chained together and terminating in a single chain and buoy. The length but not the size of this chain was specified. That, I suppose, would depend on the size of the boat.

While the CDRE were casting about for the stone, and masons to cut it to size, it fell to me to produce the chain from RAF sources. No mariners being to hand, Sgt Williams and I looked down the Stores lists, and decided that one-inch chain should be about right for a vessel of our size. The demand went in to the Maintenance Unit

About the middle of April I got my marching orders,1340 Flight had ceased to have any purpose and I told the MU to cancel the chain. My one and only command had lasted for only 13 months. A couple of days before I left, there was an agitated message from the local stationmaster. My chain had arrived, it was taking up a lot of room, could I please come and take it away? I went to have a look. No, I couldn't! When we put the demand in, we had blithely assumed the "one inch" referred to the overall size of a single link (well, it stands to reason,doesn't it?)

Unfortunately, it doesn't: it's the thickness of the rod from which the links are forged that counts. What we had specified would serve as anchor cable for the Queen Mary or at least a Mersey ferry, and I think there were 100 fathoms of it. Of course the stuff shouldn't have been sent at all; it was the MU's mistake as we'd cancelled the order. We signalled them to come and take it back.

Meanwhile this monstrous pile was taking up half the goods yard, and the stationmaster was tearing his hair out. I left for Bombay and never did hear the end of it. But everyone was in the winding-down phase, chaos reigned and I would not be at all surprised if the huge heap of rusting chain is there yet.

[Bengo]

The Lynx MRGB requires some ridiculous quantity of oil. Thirty eight pints, from memory. The oil alone is/was dangerous air cargo, but the gearbox, with oil in, was not. Ships allowance of oil was something limited, maybe 10 or 15 l, because the gearbox doesnt use much oil and inflam store space is scarce.

Every time HMS Something or other flight had a MRGB need replacing somewhere in farflung a gearbox was usually available, but the gearbox oil, which needed changing after a few hours could not be sent by air.

The supply solution was to send the box to Portland. There as much oil as the gearbox would hold was poured into it and the gearbox rebagged and put back in its transit container. It could then be shipped by air. On arrival at farflung, enough oil for an oil change was decanted from the gearbox into temporary containers and the gearbox fitted, test flown and in due course the oil was changed.


N

[Fortissimo]

Kitting for an OOA, turned up at Uxbridge with a mate who was due to be doing his stint in an adjacent hot and sandy place. They had all the stuff I needed, and some items I didn't but which obviously needed air miles, but my friend was told he needed a specially sized shirt. He commented that it was a bit odd as he had never required special sizing, including his flying kit. "That's what the system is saying" qouth the storeman. On the advertised collection date, he was presented with 3 folded shirts and very sensibly decided to try one on. He didn't get that far.

On unfolding the first shirt, it was a tad unusual in its styling and seemed unduly wide. The order was checked and the item was as ordered but the original storeman had managed to substitute height for chest measurement. Someone at the supplier had therefore, as requested, sat at a machine and made up 3 desert DPM shirts with a 6ft chest.

[bunta130]

Late 80s I was en route in a Hercules to Nellis AFB. Whilst staging through Little Rock (home of the USAF C-130 training unit, where more aircraft were based that the RAF had in total) a flight engineer (ours) switch pig caused one of our windsceeens to crack (both panes) to an extent that it was not fit to be taken into the air. The RAF had an agreement with the USAF to enable us to use their spares (which the RAF would then replace at the earliest opportunity); Little Rock had the correct windscreen in stock and were more than willing to issue it to us. On discussing with Lyneham, we were told not to take the USAF one; instead, one from Lyneham would be put on a Goose Flyer due to depart Lyneham later that day and the aircraft would be revitined to fly on to Little Rock (a further 5 hours each way).
Whilst waiting for our screen to arrive, our Ground Engineer (GE), along with a couple of USAF techs, removed our damaged screen. The aircraft with our spares arrived and the GE ambled up to the ramp to pick up the box containing the new screen. He was surprised how light the box was, which had 'empty' written in large letters on the top........and that word described the contents accurately.

We ended up with the Little Rock issued screen, but I wonder how much that escapade cost.....an extra 10 hours of C-130 flying time and an extra night accommodation for us, alongside accommodation for the crew delivering the empty box. Red faces all round (I hope).

[kenparry]

Similar to the stories of Shack de-icing fluid:

At West Raynham, late 1960s, in early Summer the stores had no cold air units for the Hunter's pressurisation system. It turned that the stackers had just recently sent all the stock back to Stafford because none had been issued in the previous 6 months. I wonder why?

The sad thing about all the stories in this thread is that they display the same basic lack of comprehension - is that unkind?

[Ninthace]

We discovered Supply Sqn could provide fuel to run the Gliding Club Chipmunk and what was more, it would be cheaper than buying it in from the local garage. Then we found out they would charge a percentage mark up for doing the paperwork. Pointing out it was the same amount paperwork, no matter how much we bought, fell on deaf ears and so we ended up continuing to have to buy it in. Tax payer 0 - Gliding Club 0.

[BEagle]

One evening whilst I was SDO at a station on which I was serving, the Orderly Sergeant rang and asked me to come to the Guard Room. Upon arrival, the reason was clear - an airman had been caught red-handed stealing clothing items. It seems that he would pass them on to a civvy crony who would later flog them in a local market, splitting the proceeds.

The little bugger was arrested by the RAFP and banged up. I was then asked to wait the arrival of the local 'investigator'.... He duly turned up and looked quite intimidating (rather like the character Frank Burnside in the later TV programme 'The Bill') in his leather jacket and stern expression. After he introduced himself, I asked whether he needed me to stay for any reason...

"No, it's OK sir, I'll take it from here. I might need you if we have to 'tumble his drum' though"
"Do WHAT?"
"Tumble his drum. Oh, sorry sir, that's an expression we use in the trade - it means to search his room!"
"Ah, OK. I thought that you meant to give him a little 'physical persuasion' to cough!"
"Oh no sir! We can't do that! Be a bloody sight quicker if we could though!"

Chummy subsequently enjoyed a little holiday in Essex!

[Ken Scott]

Circa 2000 I was tasked to fly to Nellis for the first rescue of a C130J that had broken down there. We of course (as a C130K) were cock-a-hoop at the prospect. We parked alongside, handed over their spares, took their load on board as we would get back to EGDL long before them and enjoyed a night stop in Vegas with a night in the Luxor casino hotel.

Next day the No 2 engine wouldn’t start and the GE diagnosed a broken FCU. There was a direct Virgin flight twice a week and it was due in a couple of days so we booked back into the Luxor to wait… meanwhile the J was fixed, took its load back and departed.

The Virgin flight duly arrived but of the spares there was no sign… it turned out that the RAF supply system wouldn’t pay the extra cost for priority freight so the box had not been loaded… we had to wait another 4 days for the next flight, at a cost of around $2000 per day in hotac and allowances, way more than the cost of priority freight would have been.

The J was back long before we were, and we didn’t even make it back in our own aircraft which we had to abandon at Goose Bay as it was repeatedly u/s, partly due to the week it had spent sweating in the heat at Nellis (but that’s a whole different story). Not quite the K beats J narrative we were aiming for…

[NutLoose]

Odiham,
I was told I needed a new number one for some parade of the other, so off I trots to the Station tailor who measures me up and announces I was an odd shape and none of the uniforms in stock would fit, so a tailor made item would need to be produced especially for me... months go by, parade was a distant memory and still no sign of the uniform when six or seven months later, it is in for final fitting at which point it will need to go back for completion.

Trying it on the new Station tailor is pleased with the fit, however i point out on the front panel, where the tailor making it had caught the material with a pair of scissors, he had cut a small V into it. The new tailor then asks why I needed one in the first place and I explained about odd shape etc, off he trots to return with a uniform off the shelf that simply needed the trouser leg length tweaking.

[NutLoose]

Anyone remember the Puma farce with the cracked gearboxes and the lack of spares coming in, a team went to France to see what the delay on our spares was and visiting goods out they were amazed to see a huge amount of RAF spares sitting awaiting despatch where there was none waiting for the French airforce, it turned out the storeman hated the British, so anything for us tended to gather dust while he expedited everything to the French airforce.

[rugmuncher]

The Lynx MRGB requires some ridiculous quantity of oil. Thirty eight pints, from memory. The oil alone is/was dangerous air cargo, but the gearbox, with oil in, was not. Ships allowance of oil was something limited, maybe 10 or 15 l, because the gearbox doesnt use much oil and inflam store space is scarce.

Every time HMS Something or other flight had a MRGB need replacing somewhere in farflung a gearbox was usually available, but the gearbox oil, which needed changing after a few hours could not be sent by air.

The supply solution was to send the box to Portland. There as much oil as the gearbox would hold was poured into it and the gearbox rebagged and put back in its transit container. It could then be shipped by air. On arrival at farflung, enough oil for an oil change was decanted from the gearbox into temporary containers and the gearbox fitted, test flown and in due course the oil was changed.


N

Our M2 made a "small" error when ordering OEP 215 before deploying, mixed up "Liters" with "Drums EA" , had to get rid of it all (Float test failed).
.
Also screwed up with Blue paper roll, ordered something like 25 rolls, we got 25 cases at 24 rolls per.

[teeteringhead]

Unrealistic amounts/demands never seem to be questioned. Many moon ago, I was a pipe smoker, and was surprisingly often offered yards of locking wire to serve as pipe cleaners - good it was too.

The engineers seem to have had lots - and the reason was explained:

At the time wire was ordered by weight, and whoever ordered the wire decided on 2 lb. However - the hastily scrawled "2lb" was read as 216.......

..... oh - and the suppliers had just changed to kilograms. Have you any idea what 216 Kg of wire looks like.......

[higthepig]

A lifetime ago I was at Brawdy on the BCU, every few weeks the stores wagon would drive over to the Burning Area on the north side of the airfield to dump their scrap. They usually did it over a couple of days before having a big bonfire. We used to go through it all and pick out the non-slashed uniform, take it back to Clothing Stores and exchange for new kit. We had the best dressed officers in the Tower and BCU had an endless supply of biscuits. Stores never asked why we were wearing through uniform so quickly......

[bspatz]

Story told to me by an old supply warrant officer who was stationed in Aden and had a visit from the SWO who wanted to order some items to try and smarten up the station in advance of the impending AOC’s inspection. One of the items he required was a length of chain to go around the square on which stood the flagpole in the centre of the station. Together they perused the AP which listed material and selected a 2 inch link chain as suitable for the job and submitted a demand for the requisite amount. A few weeks went by and the chain had not appeared so the SWO asked that the priority be increased to try and chase it along. A few more weeks passed and AOC’s was not far away so it was decided to increase the demand’s priority to the highest level. The result was that a Beverley was specially tasked to deliver the demand and on arrival it was discovered that 2 inch chain did not relate to the link size but the thickness of the metal. What they had ordered was anchor chain which was so heavy that it needed an aircraft all by itself to get it to Aden.

[NutLoose]

A chap I used to work with was out the Aden way and he was telling me they started building a pair of water towers, as they watched them being constructed one stopped and started to be deconstructed as the other carried on, he was told there had been a cock up and one was supposed to have built at a different base, so was dismantled shipped and rebuilt.

[BEagle]

When looking after one of the Il-62 crews during Gorbachev's visit to Brize, I was enjoying a cup of their excellent coffee served by a very pleasant cabin crew, when the rations were delivered for the next leg...

These came from an outside caterer. The cabin crew boss (who could look either like Rosa Klebb or a jovial prep school matron, as the mood took her) looked rather surprised at the two huge polythene bags of green which were being brought up the steps. "Perhaps they really do eat cabbage sandwiches", I thought to myself...

The mystery was resolved - it was parsley for garnishing the meals and someone had added an extra zero to the order! 'Rosa' erupted into peals of laughter "What I going to do with all this??".....

[Big Pistons Forever]

One summer in the mid 1980’s, I had a temporary position as a Nav instructor at the Fleet Navigation school. One day I wandered into the Admin section and bumped into an obviously distraught unit Admin Officer.

“Jim, what’s the problem”, I said

“Dave!, we have run out of forms to order more forms ! “

[4mastacker]

As far as stuff “walking” from stores goes, the first Courts Martial I attended was for the prosecution of a store man who was stealing stuff to order. He’d had his own keys cut and had access 24/7. He got to do daily PT at Colchester, after which he got to wear his civvies........

That scrote's name is burnt into my memory.

Being newly arrived just after he was caught, I was briefed by OC Supply that as I was the only sqn member not caught up in the investigation, I had better make sure my No 1 uniform was in good condition as I would be wearing it at a whole lot of forthcoming Orderly Rooms, Summaries of Evidence and CMs.

Not only had the the scrote raided clothing stores on a regular basis but he had pillaged all the stores on the station by volunteering for Duty Storeman at weekends and grants. This gave him and his two mates unfettered access to all the main and sub-stores. According to his "little black book" he was flogging the nicked kit in downtown Aldershot, Basingstoke and Blackbushe Market as well as to some on-base personalities who also found themselves doing the CO's Carpet Two-Step.

The impact of his actions were far-reaching - other people's careers were ruined, he caused a shortage of some flying clothing items and across the Air Force all external doors to clothing stores had to be changed so they could only opened from within the building. A lot of people were prosecuted for not recovering u/s kit e.g. socks, footwear, shirts etc when issuing serviceable items. That meant at Odiham, any request of "Do me a favour mate, I need an extra pair of socks/gloves/whatever" was firmly rebuffed. Folks were very twitchy in case it was plod testing them.

Boyo was given three and a half years for burglary. Initially he went to Colly and was later transferred to Parkhurst Prison to see out the rest of his sentence.

teeteringhead allegedly, that locking wire makes very good fishing line when worm drowning in deep, fast flowing tidal waters.... so I'm told.

[ShyTorque]

In the early 1980s I was the nominated cash imprest holder for a week long, SH detachment from Gutersloh to a certain special forces training base on the north Danish coast.

On the morning of the flight I went to accounts to pick up the cash and the paperwork. It took a very long time to count the cash but as I had no input to the nominated amount for the detachment and having no idea of the Danish exchange rate, I just got on with it because we were about to depart en route.

The cash almost completely filled my nav bag. To cut a long story short, instead of the expected HOTAC on arrival, we were given very, very basic barrack room accommodation and fed on the camp. I therefore had no reason to dish out any allowances and so I asked to put the cash in the camp safe, only to be told there wasn’t one on site. I had to carry the cash with me all week! As there were no locks on the doors of the barrack rooms, I slept using my nav bag as my pillow.

On returning to base I returned the imprest, only to be questioned on the reason for having taken more cash than the average small house cost at that time! Again, it turned out to be a clerk adding an extra nought on the correct amount.

[ShyTorque]

That scrote's name is burnt into my memory.

Being newly arrived just after he was caught, I was briefed by OC Supply that as I was the only sqn member not caught up in the investigation, I had better make sure my No 1 uniform was in good condition as I would be wearing it at a whole lot of forthcoming Orderly Rooms, Summaries of Evidence and CMs.

Not only had the the scrote raided clothing stores on a regular basis but he had pillaged all the stores on the station by volunteering for Duty Storeman at weekends and grants. This gave him and his two mates unfettered access to all the main and sub-stores. According to his "little black book" he was flogging the nicked kit in downtown Aldershot, Basingstoke and Blackbushe Market as well as to some on-base personalities who also found themselves doing the CO's Carpet Two-Step.

The impact of his actions were far-reaching - other people's careers were ruined, he caused a shortage of some flying clothing items and across the Air Force all external doors to clothing stores had to be changed so they could only opened from within the building. A lot of people were prosecuted for not recovering u/s kit e.g. socks, footwear, shirts etc when issuing serviceable items. That meant at Odiham, any request of "Do me a favour mate, I need an extra pair of socks/gloves/whatever" was firmly rebuffed. Folks were very twitchy in case it was plod testing them.

Boyo was given three and a half years for burglary. Initially he went to Colly and was later transferred to Parkhurst Prison to see out the rest of his sentence.

Yes, that would be the same chap. He was CM’d in 1979. I recall that others were also prosecuted because I attended three altogether.

[4mastacker]

Yes, that would be the same chap. He was CM’d in 1979. I recall that others were also prosecuted because I attended three altogether.

The scrote's accomplices were a Cpl Supplier and an SAC Rockape.

[NutLoose]

Would that have been the same Rock Ape who disposed of the Puma bits to a scrappy?

I seem to remember the clothing stores problem was they had installed the hasp and clasp on the inner door incorrectly meaning you could unscrew one half without disturbing the padlock. He then simply added items to people’s issue cards and signed it so everything appeared to balance.

And it all became about when some items were seen on a stall that was the latest kit that people on the Station didn’t have yet.

[gopher01]

C130 u/s in Nassau on a Belize schedule with a turbine overheat flasher unit not working. Contact with Upavon made, told arrangement exists with Southern Air Trsnsport in Miami for supply of spares. Contact made with Miami told yes, arrangement does exist but until RAF pay for the Tacho genny they already had no more spares. Upavon told, said they would action, everybody back to the hotel! All sorted, spare to be on first plane in from Miami in the morning, as it was a ten minute fix all teed up to depart shortly after flights arrival. BA man trundles across, spare not on plane, Miami checked, we sent it they said, not sending another, flights checked on arrival no spare, back to hotel.
Told spare found, on first flight in the morning, all to Albert, spare turns up, ten minute fix, off to Belize.
All because somebody didn't pay for the spares used and Southern did ask for our flasher unit to be paid for before they supplied it!

[ancientaviator62]

RAF C130K from 48 Sqn lands at one of the more remote Pacific islands. 'Fill her up and double Greenshield stamps please' or words to that effect. No says the handling agent . They had not been paid for the last visit almost a year ago. FEAF informed and agent paid two days later. It would appear to have not been an isolated incident of tardy payment for such services.
Getting back to supply problems we had a very interesting one at Fairford with our new Hercules. One of our a/c had a runaway rudder trim when away from base. The captain could just about hold it on the rudder and a system was devised using a cargo strop to help take the leg load..It turned out that the wrong relay had been fitted in the rudder trim system. A simple case of groundcrew error you may think , But no.The relay was issued by the supply system using the part number but it was not a cock up by the suppliers either. At the time we were getting spares via Lockheed part numbers, Federal stock numbers and RAF section and ref numbers. To add to this soup the new RAF supply computer was having issues of its own converting all this and others to computer.
What could possibly go wrong ! The offending relay had been supplied in all good faith by the supply system and fitted as such by the groundcrew. But although it looked the same and fitted the same and it worked for a short while it was not up to the job hence the problem later on. The investigation found that only a certain relay type was correct. So to prevent any further confusion a sign was painted on the inside of the fuselage on all the a/c near to the elevator system . It said 'Use only Cuttler Hammer relay part number XXXX.
We had other cases of course but that was potentially the most serious

[chute packer]

#1 - requested 10m of wire, package duly arrived, supply chap has dutifully measured out using a 1m ruler, cut, next metre etc. 10m of wire provided in 1m lengths....

#2 - requested a box of scalpel blades, a single blade turned up. So, next order 100 were ordered, you guessed it, 100 boxes, couldn't be returned as once delivered sterility couldn't be guaranteed, some 32 years later I still have a couple of boxes at home (yay for being a model builder).

#3 - Flight Sergeant gets irate phone call from Flight Commander, what the hell are you guys doing ordering a $12,000 paint strainer, you know anything more than $5000 needs to go through a tender process. Confusion all round. Worked out we had been billed $60 for each of 200 paper paint strainers (like coffee machine filters) instead of $60 for the whole box.

[NutLoose]

Civi wise we had an expensive artificial horizon fail, looking in the back the filter was clogged with little black particles, a warranty exchange was arranged and installed with no problems, the company then refused the claim as the filter was contaminated so must have been done at fitment, fine says me, but you fitted it 4 months ago when you built the aircraft. Ahhh ermm warranty accepted and Service Bulletin arrived a few weeks later for everyone to check theirs for contamination.

[4mastacker]

Would that have been the same Rock Ape who disposed of the Puma bits to a scrappy?

I seem to remember the clothing stores problem was they had installed the hasp and clasp on the inner door incorrectly meaning you could unscrew one half without disturbing the padlock. He then simply added items to people’s issue cards and signed it so everything appeared to balance.

And it all became about when some items were seen on a stall that was the latest kit that people on the Station didn’t have yet.

Could well be but that wasn't covered by the Summaries of Evidence where I was the escort - they covered the theft from the various stores.

Clothing Stores keys were held in the Guardroom during silent hours, so he interfered with the internal hasp and clasp to get into clothing stores when he was in the building as Duty Storeman. The external door to clothing stores had a Yale lock for which Boyo had obtained a key and he used that method of entry when he wasn't on duty - hence the burglary charge. They were caught coming out of the external door by the Duty Storeman who was carrying out a late night external security check of the building.

He would input false transactions onto the stores computer system to cover his tracks, consequently the deficiencies weren't readily apparent. IIRC, at the time, there was no time stamp on the transaction records to show the time of day the transaction was made, only the date although an approximation of which part of the day the transaction took place could be made by the position of the transaction in the record for that day. Supply operated 24/7 (no laughing in the cheap seats!!) so transactions could be carried out at any time of the day and night. I don't recall Personal Loan Cards being falsely updated because that would have involved additional effort on his part.

[NutLoose]

I seem to remember the aircrew being asked if and what they had issued recently on their loan cards, but that might have just been tying the card system to the computer system to aid identifying what was missing.

When you fit a hasp and clasp correctly the arm goes over all the screws preventing them being undone, but if you fit it incorrectly the arm does not cover the screws meaning one side can be unscrewed.

Installed like this is incorrect. as the screws are not all covered, one side can be removed, that is what I was told at the time, it had been installed like below


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/474x391/th_1526212962_a885cdf61b29330847a646449ea94c7ee2cd4ac6.jpg
Installed like this is correct as all the screws are blanked off.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x400/s_l400_1860290313_967efb2b75ca47f430a255dcc5ac487a69eeaa64.j pg

[PICKS135]

Quite so! Just as the fraudulent behaviour of a certain Sqn Ldr at a unit on which I was stationed who had no qualms about 'asking' airmen to exchange his worn DMS shoes for him, rather than paying for said items as an officer should.
Or airmen getting aircrew to exchange boots / gloves / Jackets :O

[PICKS135]

#1 - requested 10m of wire, package duly arrived, supply chap has dutifully measured out using a 1m ruler, cut, next metre etc. 10m of wire provided in 1m lengths....

#2 - requested a box of scalpel blades, a single blade turned up. So, next order 100 were ordered, you guessed it, 100 boxes, couldn't be returned as once delivered sterility couldn't be guaranteed, some 32 years later I still have a couple of boxes at home (yay for being a model builder).

#3 - Flight Sergeant gets irate phone call from Flight Commander, what the hell are you guys doing ordering a $12,000 paint strainer, you know anything more than $5000 needs to go through a tender process. Confusion all round. Worked out we had been billed $60 for each of 200 paper paint strainers (like coffee machine filters) instead of $60 for the whole box.

Also had the same problem with #2 at the old premier fighter station in Scotland. Lots of model builders in the section benefited

[MarcK]

RAF C130K from 48 Sqn lands at one of the more remote Pacific islands. 'Fill her up and double Greenshield stamps please' or words to that effect. No says the handling agent . They had not been paid for the last visit almost a year ago. FEAF informed and agent paid two days later. It would appear to have not been an isolated incident of tardy payment for such services.
Not limited to UK. I put the US Navy on credit-hold and would not deliver a piece of data communication gear until I was paid for the last one.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Posted to Ottawa at an operational HQ. The boss said we had to wear the army combat uniform, the pixilated suit of many pockets, derisively referred to by us Navy types as the “Relish Suit”. So I go to stores to draw my gear and I get a shiny set of new clothes except for a very well worn recycled old style plain olive drab rain poncho.

I ask why I am not getting the new style and much better rain poncho. The answer is that the Navy forgot to buy that item when they contributed to the joint uniform buy. OK what ever but they issue it with a set of pixilated rank tabs which look very dorky and don’t fit properly on the old style poncho. So I dig my heels in and say they have to find me a set of the old style rank tabs if they are going to issue this POS.

OK, is the answer we will get back to you. A week later they call and say they are having a set custom made 🙄. Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to just give me a new poncho. “Can’t do that sir the Navy didn’t pay for it ! “. Ok what ever. A few minutes later another call from supply “we found a pair of rank tabs for you! ..from Esquimalt ( the West Coast Navy Base I had just come from.)

Since I worked at an office the whole GI Joe outfit always made me feel a bit foolish. Anyway one day a message came asking for suggestions on updating the combat uniforms. They were called CADPAT, short for Canadians Disruptive Pattern. So for us office types I suggest a new pattern call OFFPAT. It would have a drawing of corner of a desk, half a stapler, a section of a safety poster, the handle of a coffee mug etc etc.
strangely the suggestion was not well received….

[NutLoose]

That reminds me of an officers suggestion re the armour camouflage in Berlin, he pointed out that the standard camo was not suited to city warfare. BPF have a read.

https://www.emlra.org/index.php/library/general-articles/29-elmra-articles-berlin-brigade-urban-paint-scheme

[4mastacker]

I seem to remember the aircrew being asked if and what they had issued recently on their loan cards, but that might have just been tying the card system to the computer system to aid identifying what was missing.

When you fit a hasp and clasp correctly the arm goes over all the screws preventing them being undone, but if you fit it incorrectly the arm does not cover the screws meaning one side can be unscrewed.

Installed like this is incorrect. as the screws are not all covered, one side can be removed, that is what I was told at the time, it had been installed like below


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/474x391/th_1526212962_a885cdf61b29330847a646449ea94c7ee2cd4ac6.jpg
Installed like this is correct as all the screws are blanked off.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/400x400/s_l400_1860290313_967efb2b75ca47f430a255dcc5ac487a69eeaa64.j pg

I don't recall those particular Personal Loan Card checks - that's not to say they didn't happen.

I saw the hasp and clasp after new door furniture had been fitted. Apparently the incorrect fitting had not been noticed over a number years despite various inspections and security checks.

[gopher01]

C130 diverted to an island not usually visited and needed to uplift fuel. Carnet card wasn't accepted by fuel supplier neither was Co's imprest card and imprest didn't have enough cash in it to cover the anticipated fuel uplift. Problem solved when G.E. produces his credit card which covered the bill, maybe this is where the phrase " a wallet of G. Es' " came from!

[BEagle]

The cheapo egent with whom the RAF had a contract collapsed whilst we had 4 x VC10K at a civil US base ( we weren't allowed to use USAF JP4 through the pods at the time). So we needed to pay for de-icing so we could escape....

Along came the AARC, who demanded my corporate Amex Card which all co-pilots had back then. De-icing done, Amex paid and off we went...

Back at Brize the cash-WRAF Air Vice Corporal who checked the imprest receipts went crazy when she saw how much was on the card - several thousand $US!!! Even more so when I told her it was for alcohol!!

My next run-in with her was over a query about why we'd used a particular hire car service in Palermo..... I was close to saying "They made an offer we couldn't refuse", but went to see OC Accounts to explain about who ran things in Sicily!

[Big Pistons Forever]

I know a similar story back in early 1990's with a RCAF Herc sent to a small Caribbean Island on a Sunday to pick up some professional pedestrians that were there on an exercise. Fuel had not been arranged as promised :ugh:and the fuel provider who was part of the local resort said payment at delivery was required before they got any fuel. Calls back to their Squadron Duty Ops Officer were not helpful as the Ops guys couldn't get hold of any finance people. Fu8k it the AC said here is my personal AMEX card. $20,000 later they were on their way. All the guy got a copy of the flimsy from the old style paper card impression machine.

Monday morning the finance guys heads explode when the Squadron CO tells them to reimburse the pilot for his purchase at the "Paradise Bay Resort and Spa".

[Mogwi]

Many years ago, I had a job in RAF(G) which entailed me doing some fairly secret squirrel stuff. I had to use my private car (bashed-up old VW Beetle), was told to inflate my mileage by at least 10% and could not stay in Service accommodation. Thus my travel claims were fairly rudimentary, ie Left XXXX day1 0930, RTB XXXX day 5 1700. 753 (never use a round number!) miles, 4 x Rate 1 allowances.

New FgOff WAAF in accounts threw a wobbly and refused to pay up and had to be pointed at the enclosed reference, which was a note from the AOC saying “Pay Moggy the money”.

She never talked to me again.

Mog

[jimgriff]

Hope Morocco Mole was on equal terms?

[MAINJAFAD]

Falkland Island souvenirs….

a supply of ABDR kits was held in the Falklands, some sort of bi-metallic where two parts were mixed and moulded into place before setting. At the time, back in 1980s, wee were told they cost about £500 a pop and had a shelf life of about 1 year.

Supply was through the army so RAF orders were delivered to army in UK who shipped everything by sea via Ascension and other places enroute. Average time between order and delivery was, reputedly, about 9 months. Meaning kits were just about lifex on arrival, so more were ordered on a quarterly basis and lifex kits distributed to units to make “gozhomey” souvenirs.
.

Not sure how many were ordered at a time but the number supplied to units was plentiful. Still have my souvenir from Alice 35 years later….

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/img_0271_8b5ec224d507e9a6238a7b466e1fc0459ee65931.jpeg

Double Bond was the stuff's name. I made a few gizzets out of the stuff for the lads when I was at 7SU in the late 1980's. During the Mid 1990's I did a load of them while on 144SU. The Supplier there must of ordered most of the MOD's stock as I had 400 packets of the stuff. Used it all.

[ancientaviator62]

When OP Corporate was brewing up muggins was a designated imprest holder.. Due to the 'unknown' nature of our task my imprest was larger than our unit was allowed to provide. So Lyneham was designated to issue it to me. On arrival I was met with the usual 'not stationed here' so no money. So I produced my letter from the SASO which basically said 'give him what he asks for.'. It was provided with much ill grace after I invited OC Accounts to phone the SASO ! We were part of a group of crews and G/E's positioning all over by VC 10. I soon discovered that one of the G/E's had been given any allowances ,they had just been called out and told to go. So I held an impromptu pay parade on the a/c as by now our part had been reduced !
When I returned knowing that we had been to sensitive parts I phoned Command Accounts and asked what they would like me to do with the imprest.I explained that the locations might be 'sensitive' but was told to just take it back to our unit accounts as usual. So I did. A few days later I got a frantic phone call from HQ asking what I had done with the imprest. So I related the tale they rang off and I heard no more about it. Left and right hands as usual.

[gopher01]

I was called out to go to Hong Kong, depart as soon as you can get to Brize as the SVC ( Servicing Crew ) with the G.E. had collapsed and died and I was to meet the aircraft in H.K.
Sent to Imprest to uplift cash to self support in H.K. until met with crew, £300.00! Arrived at Brize to depart on VC 10 reminded by movers can't take more than £50 in cash out of country, quiet word with mover who said best I don't ask you then.
Met crew in H.K. and continue rest of Global no problem, not drawing on imprest as I had my own stash of cash. Some time after returning to Lyneham and the imprest had been closed recieved an impressive boost to the bank balance as the imprest office paid my allowances for the route. Deciding therefore they would want the £300.00 back I went to Imprest like a good boy to be told I had never been issued £300.00!
Still being the good boy and thinking someone would catch up with me eventually I tried again with the same result.
A few days later by chance I heard a voice saying Imprest were chasing him for £300.00 and he had never been out of the country. A little cross checking revaled a Segeant with same surname but different initial.
Visit to imprest revealed imprest clerk had entered advance against wrong person. I therefore paid back.the advance but it took a conversation from OC Eng with OC Admin to get an apology to the wronged Sergeant.
A polnter to this tale was that it all started on April 1st!!

[ancientaviator62]

AL1 to my imprest tale. 'One' should read 'none'.

[Ken Scott]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/img_0271_8b5ec224d507e9a6238a7b466e1fc0459ee65931.jpeg
Double Bond was the stuff's name. I made a few gizzets out of the stuff for the lads when I was at 7SU in the late 1980's. During the Mid 1990's I did a load of them while on 144SU. The Supplier there must of ordered most of the MOD's stock as I had 400 packets of the stuff. Used it all.

I still have my ‘Pengy Piece’ from my FI det, we all made them for each other on our crew although some were better than others and the poor ones were usually left behind… mine was made by my captain and is something of a work of art in my opinion, so much so that it is still sitting on the windowsill behind my desk, 30 years later. I have had to be somewhat vague in explaining what the various tableau refer to…(various penguins enact scenes from your tour!)

The one I made for him was equally artistic I thought but he felt a little aggrieved at some of it so didn’t take it home!

As I understand the stuff was really expensive so each one cost hundreds of pounds.

[waito]

So dear friends, my Mae West was so dangerous, it had to remain in Bahrein.........

Mae West is a Life Jacket nickname? How come?

And too bad you couldn't take her with you :p

[albatross]

Mae West is a Life Jacket nickname? How come?

And too bad you couldn't take her with you :p

The answer is obvious.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/281x179/img_7370_369ace093e84b48bce8ee90022b9909929d39de1.jpeg
Then there was the “Gibson Girl” Emergency Radio
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/310x320/img_7371_1c779a9b3c8c26c6d276c90201fe96cb5b0f7898.jpeg

[radar101]

The answer is obvious.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/281x179/img_7370_369ace093e84b48bce8ee90022b9909929d39de1.jpeg


Not to mention the Hawker Hunter "Sabrinas"

[Exrigger]

Forgot to add that I still have my Falklands gizzit, and thanks to the guys that made it and the suppliers for the double bond, the extra amount meant plenty of modelling could be done, the content of mine would take to long to explain and like this post a tad off topic:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/502x324/falklands_gizzit_small_5bd8cbb0991bceacf9cb1207be06af6581955 afe.jpg

[staircase]

Interesting about the imprest tales.

I had to return one following a few days away in Europe, and a few days later got a telephone call from accounts to say that my imprest was .10p short and could I come to SHQ and pay it. I asked if they were ‘joking’ and was eventually ordered to go down there and pay it by my boss.

Now fast forward 5 years, and a few days around Europe with a B757. After much counting of money I was £5 adrift, but took the remains back to the airline’s cashiers and confessed to the short fall. They pointed out that they didn’t even both to check the ‘workings’ as long as it was with a small percentage of the total issued, it was just not an efficient use of their time.

Another example of the different approach was a weather diversion to a provincial airport in northern France.

‘How do you pay the landing fee captain?’ says the airport manager.

‘Dan Air’ says I, ‘it will be under contract or paid later’.

‘Non!’

I paid with my access card (1000 euros). When I got back to Manchester the station manager was at the gate with £1100 in travellers cheques.

‘You got us out of a hole young man, take the wife out for a good meal with the extra and keep the change’.

Mind you there is no airline that I would do that for now!

[Tartiflette Fan]

Interesting about the imprest tales.

I had to return one following a few days away in Europe, and a few days later got a telephone call from accounts to say that my imprest was .10p short and could I come to SHQ and pay it. I asked if they were ‘joking’ and was eventually ordered to go down there and pay it by my boss.



Checking especially necessary when dealing with someone whio doesn't understand the currency.

[PlasticCabDriver]

Cannot remember which Tornado unit I was on at the time, but some bright spark saw gearbox oil in the RAF supply network and being clever and resourceful decided that gearbox oil must be for vehicles and as the Army had control of vehicle consumables the item was duly transferred to Army control, so one less item to be stored and managed by the RAF supply chain.

On ordering some oil for the Wing Sweep Actuator Gearboxes for said Tornado I was informed that item was Army controlled and for vehicle use only, on asking who had decided this, no answer forthcoming, and were they aware that a Tornado aircraft was now grounded by this daft notion, silence from other end, it took a while for some clever people to try and get ground use oil back into the RAF supply chain so it could be issued and used for the only ‘vehicle’ it was used in.

It was a while ago so specifics might not be 100% but goes like this. Aircraft type that used to be based at Northholt, used the OEM-specified grease in the prop spinners. When they needed more, they just ordered more of that particular grease. One day ordering more, someone in the POL (?) IPT informs them that is not permitted. Units must to order a certain specification of grease and the IPT will determine the cheapest most appropriate grease to procure. Protests of “manufacturer specifications etc” fell on deaf ears. They knew best, and were not to be told that they didn’t.

POL IPT procures grease according to spec. First prop spinner has a grease top up, short time later, engineer walking across hangar notices there is water dripping from the prop spinner. Investigation reveals OEM spec is a lithium-based grease, and the IPT procured a clay-based grease, because “it met the spec and was best value for money”. Lithium- and clay-based grease make water when mixed, which is ideal for use at FL nosebleed where the temp is renowned for being a teeny bit below zero.

And aircraft deployed at overseas location, based on a blindingly near-white concrete dispersal, eye wateringly bright in the sun, which was every day. Request sunglasses issue for engineers. Can’t have them, because “it’s not hot enough”. “Have you ever been skiing…?”. Engineers authorised locally to wear their own sunglasses, which pleasingly wound the army up immensely!

[Wensleydale]

Back in the 70s I went to Stores in Valley to sign out my ejection seat leg restraints.

"Sorry" I was told, "We only have one left in stock".
"Thats OK. I'll come back when you have some more".
"No. You have to sign out the one leg restraint because we can't order a new box until the current stock has gone".

And so I spent a week with just one leg restraint (fortunately during the Ground School phase although I had to borrow a leg restraint for my Hawk famil ride). It transpired that they came in boxes of seven.

[BEagle]

Another area in which the Gnat was better! No need for pilots to have their own leg restraints, because the Folland seat had fixed-length leg restraint straps with leg garters permanently attached to the straps!

[gzornenplatz]

When Group Captain Barwood (Safety Equipment guru) went from Farnborough to RAFG his first port of call was a Harrier squadron to see how they were getting on with the new external g-suits. Blank looks. Off he went to Rheidahlen to see the suppliers. "Oh yes we've had them in for a while but we're waiting for the jackets before we issue them!"

[ORAC]

Since the thread seems to be digressing to money matters.

Back in 79 I was deployed to Butcher Radar in Belize to help defend the skies. Spent 10 weeks sunbathing, on trips to keys and fishing as there were never more than one Harrier serviceable.

Spent loads of money drawn on a pay book issued for the detachment through the army on camp - reasoning that it was the only time I would be there and best to make the most of it.

Went home and waited for massive deductions to be taken from pay, which never happened.

It’s been 44 years - I think I’ve got away with it….

[Geriaviator]

Nobody told a story better than the much lamented Danny42C on the Brevet thread, and few were funnier than his account (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/329990-gaining-r-f-pilots-brevet-ww-ii-181.html)of collecting urgent spares from St. Athan. When I mention that his delivery vehicle was a Spitfire, you'll get the picture. But be warned: this thread is the greatest time-waster on the planet, Danny was a master of the wandering tale, and as soon as you open his post #3620 on page 181 you'll be there for several hours.
I drew a line on my map, put a protractor on it, took a Spitfire and got airborne. It was a lovely day and ...

[NutLoose]

Sardinia, and an Italian bank holiday, one of the guys had been chatting for over a year to an Italian girl he had met in Rome, so a long bank Holiday trip was arranged to see her.
Wanting to have a good weekend off he trotted to accounts and changed a large amount of cash into Lira. He arrives in Rome and goes to buy something with the notes Deci had exchanged for him to be told they were only valid in Sardinia,
so there he was skint in Rome on a Bank Holiday. He went to the British Consulate who called out the RAF consulate member who came in and gave him money to cover it out of his own wallet to be sorted when he revisited Accounts on Sardinia.

.

[ShyTorque]

It’s not just military folk who need a well targeted kick. I may have recounted this tale before, but here goes:

I was building the cooling system for a car and needed a length of half inch diameter heater hose. I went to my local Halfords, where I’d bought it from not long before.

I told the young assistant what I needed. He told me they didn’t sell it. I pointed out a box of it sitting very prominently behind him on a shelf. He climbed a step ladder, looked at it and said “No, no this is 12.7mm, not half inch”!

Rather than point out his poor grasp of arithmetic, I said I’d take that instead. He got the box down and warned me that although he would sell me some, they wouldn’t take it back if it didn’t fit…. I said it will be OK.

The counter had a graduated brass ruler fixed along the long edge of the counter, on his side.
He then asked how much I wanted. I actually wanted a length of about five feet, but rather than trouble his metric only mind further, I said I’d like a metre and a half. “Oh no, we can only sell this by the metre” he replied. “In that case”, says I, “No problem, I’ll take two metres”.

I then watched as he measured out a one metre length of hose on the counter and was about to cut it off with a Stanley knife. “No, no!” says I, “I need TWO metres!”

”Yes, I know, but like I said, we only sell it by the metre; I’m going to cut you two metre lengths off”.

At that stage I told him to put the Stanley knife down and to go and fetch his manager…. :rolleyes:

I later triumphed though. The next time I went back, for something else, they were selling the entire stocks of heater hose off for ten pence per metre, instead of the previous £3.50 per metre. I bought the whole lot, which was an unused reel each of 12.7mm, 16mm and 19mm for a total of £4.50. When I got them home, I realised I had actually bought 30 metres of each, rather than the 15 metres the manager had thought the reels contained.

I’ll never have to buy more heater hose as long as I live!

[NutLoose]

Hope you have a Halfords discount card. I have :)

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/trade-card/trade-card-sign-up.html

[Big Pistons Forever]

The bin rats and money miss managers have been taking a beating on this thread so to be fair I will cop to a action that may have very slightly resulted in the finance folks in a certain base thinking less highly of sea going officers. I was a very young Lt entrusted with my first command, a 110 foot cutter. This is in the early 1980's when getting fuel and supplies at the smaller ports was usually handled with cash. So I was issued a cheque for $10,000 and told to go a local bank to get it cashed. I carefully folded the cheque and put it the breast pocket of my shirt carefully making sure the button was done up so the cheque was safe.

I was told to arrange an MP escort to the bank but got busy with other things and realized I was not going to make the bank before closing time so I arranged with the MP's to meet me the next day to go collect the money. I was living ashore and the walk to the wardroom was hot and sweaty. Realizing that I had no clean shirts for the next day I did a laundry.......

Yup my claim to fame is I laundered $ 10,000 of public funds....

Oh how the finance guys had fun with me when I brought the little ball of fluff that was the remains of the cheque in the next day.

[ShyTorque]

Nutloose,

I don’t have a Halfords trade card, but I do hold a Motor Sports Association RS Clubman licence, which allows me a discount on many of their items. I also have my own account at a local motor factor, who offer me a discount on many items they sell.

[Ninthace]

Command accounts were a funny lot.
A month or so into the FY they would be asking why I had not spent any money: "Because you haven't told me how much money I have got to spend yet"
So they would tell me how much money I had and I would immediately order IT, to the value of the budget, for the Stations in the Command as per my "master plan"
This would cause a panic because Accts could only do straight line graphs, so they were now convinced I was heading for an overspend.
Once all the orders had been placed, I would stop spending, they would relax and, for a few weeks, I a paragon of accountancy virtue as their graph was now pointing in the right direction.
Then they would have an underspend elsewhere and, because I was good at spending money quickly, they would give me the money which I would use for the units I had had to disappoint in the first spend.
Oddly, Accts would then be bemused by the sudden jump in my next long term costing when I factored in the need to replace all the kit that had been bought with the underspend.

[Tengah Type]

Early days of Op Corporate ( FI unpleasantness ) in April 82. VC10C with a load of Hooligans, en-route to ASI via Dakar in Senegal, to catch
grey funnel line transport to the action, NO cash issued in the imprest as "not needed as only RAF manned destinations and diversions will be used"
Then, of course, both Dakar and Banjul, the diversion, are fogged out, so aircraft diverts to Nouakchott in Mauritania as only option available.
Asks for fuel. AMEX not accepted, Shell Carnet not accepted; Umm contact Embassy, problem no Embassy in Mauritania!! Only solution is
a whip round of the crew and passengers to get enough cash to buy enough fuel to get to Dakar after weather clears. With IOUs to all the
crew and passengers.
Very disgruntled Accounts Officer forced to hold pay parade for passengers who were NOT going to take "NO" as an answer.
This was same Accounts Officer who insisted on paying all the people in US accommodation, and eating in Food Hall, in Sterling
when US base worked in dollars. Also insisted, on another occasion in paying only dollars to those living in Georgetown with a Sterling
economy. This was after he was persuaded that Daily issue of allowances made it a flight safety hazard as it prevented both air and groundcrews
from getting adequate sleeping time. He was nicknamed "Galtieri" for his services to the Argentine cause.
He was so unpopular that it took a Nimrod captain all of his powers of persuasion to prevent his NCOs from throwing "Galtieri" off the Exiles Club balcony.

[Saintsman]

Modern warfare seems to have a big disposable drone requirement.

I wonder when all the tenders for these devices are sent out in the future, they will all be required to conform to military specs at four times the price of the civilian equivalents?

[MarcK]

Modern warfare seems to have a big disposable drone requirement.

I wonder when all the tenders for these devices are sent out in the future, they will all be required to conform to military specs at four times the price of the civilian equivalents?
They will all certainly need different radios, which makes them more expensive than the civilian versions.

[ORAC]

Yes.. There are things you get away with in the heat of battle you cant in peace or low intensity ops.

Radios - wide spectrum so they can’t be easily jammed or hijacked, encrypted for same and to stop int/picture being eavesdropped, Low Probability of Detection so the drivers don’t get killed in a couple of minutes.

Low probability of failure - if you’re carrying explosives you don’t want them dropping on your, or civilians heads.

EMF, again, if carryeng explosives, you don’t want them going band from an induced current when swept by a radar or other source.

Add another couple of hundred requirements and, no, you’re not buying off the shelf from China…

[ancientaviator62]

Once did a long trip to the F/E and we took a young WRAF Accounts Officer as the imprest holder. To cut many transactions short she ended up at the finish of the trip having made a substantial amount of money for HMG ! Despite my best efforts to advise her she insisted on putting it in as it was. Now imprests have to balance exactly as you cannot lose nor make money so she was in trouble. I spoke to OC Accounts on her behalf and somehow the matter was sorted. I never had a problem with any of my claims after that !.

[NutLoose]

Interesting about the imprest tales.

I had to return one following a few days away in Europe, and a few days later got a telephone call from accounts to say that my imprest was .10p short and could I come to SHQ and pay it. I asked if they were ‘joking’ and was eventually ordered to go down there and pay it by my boss.



Along those lines, I used to work for a company now no longer with us, amongst the things they did was overhaul props.

A man travelled down from the Midlands in a company vehicle to pick up an overhauled prop from the South, he had been given a cheque to pay for it, the cheque was 50p short, so the stores contacted accounts and were told under no circumstances release the prop until the 50p was paid and he would need to drive back to the Midlands to collect the 50p.

The driver had no monies on him and was at a loss, so the storeman chipped in the 50p so he could be on his way home and the company sent the storeman some monies as a thank you.

Come the reckoning,

The company involved overhauled their engines and props in buildings situated at the home of the company owner, and he did not want anyone else to have access to his property, so he sent his lacky to secure the overhaul shops at whatever cost.

The bidding started and reached a fair price for the set up, but a bidder at the back kept raising his hand and up the price went, when the price had well exceeded the estimated value the man stopped bidding some i think 25K ish over the value of the property and the owner got his land secured.

After the sale the man approached the lacky and told him to pass on a message.. Remember the 50p your wouldn't let my driver off, well it just cost you a whole lot more..

[Fortissimo]

RAF Wattisham, 1989 or thereabouts, the Phantom force still going strong and the Wall still standing. One of the early colour photocopiers (a Canon if memory serves) was provided to the Sqn, having been rented by the Stn. It was excellent by the standards of the day, and it meant the lead nav could draw a few lines on a low flying chart and provide 7 copies for the rest of the 4-ship. Eventually there was a phone call from Supply Sqn, from an SAC who had been given the job of telling us to stop it, as our use of colour prints had exceeded all expectations. The problem was that each copy cost 35p, and we were way over the top of the budget, and there was a question about what we were doing that required so many.

It was explained that we were copying maps to use in the air. "But sir, we can provide maps instead..." was the reply. It was pointed out to him that the LFCs in question were £7 a pop and that one map would pay for 20 photocopies (even I could do the maths). I fired him back at his SNCO with an invitation to provide the rationale for spending an extra £40 every time we put a 4-ship into low level, never mind the time wasted in drawing on individual charts. Nothing further heard.

And before the banter starts, yes, we were Air Defence so looking at the maps was not really required.

[ex82watcher]

Back when ATC was provided by the CAA, allowances for detached duty were based on Civil Service rates and for days spent on duty away from one's normal place of employment, a fixed 'subsistence' rate was paid per day/night away.

I remember that in 1979, the subsistence rate was £15 per day, but many people, if not all, used to stay in 'Mrs Miggin's boarding house at £5 per night (including breakfast and evening meal) and pocket the rest.

When NATS took over, the monetary amount (it had of course risen over the years, in line with inflation) remained the same, but it was then subject to receipts. Of course, there was no money saved, as staff stayed in proper hotels and ate in more expensive restaurants, ensuring they spent up to the limit. However, there must have been a substantial increase in administration costs, with staff employed to check receipts against expenses.

[Lomon]

RAF Wattisham, 1989 or thereabouts, the Phantom force still going strong and the Wall still standing. One of the early colour photocopiers (a Canon if memory serves) was provided to the Sqn, having been rented by the Stn. It was excellent by the standards of the day, and it meant the lead nav could draw a few lines on a low flying chart and provide 7 copies for the rest of the 4-ship. Eventually there was a phone call from Supply Sqn, from an SAC who had been given the job of telling us to stop it, as our use of colour prints had exceeded all expectations. The problem was that each copy cost 35p, and we were way over the top of the budget, and there was a question about what we were doing that required so many.

It was explained that we were copying maps to use in the air. "But sir, we can provide maps instead..." was the reply. It was pointed out to him that the LFCs in question were £7 a pop and that one map would pay for 20 photocopies (even I could do the maths). I fired him back at his SNCO with an invitation to provide the rationale for spending an extra £40 every time we put a 4-ship into low level, never mind the time wasted in drawing on individual charts. Nothing further heard.

And before the banter starts, yes, we were Air Defence so looking at the maps was not really required.
I had a similar problem in Kuwait in the late 90's.

The navs would create one map of the planned mission which would be turned into 8 booklets.... The Army WO! supplier got very fed up of me putting in demands for A4 paper, and when I tried to explain to him that it was mission critical he had a right pop that I (at the time a mere SAC) couldn't dictate to him what was or wasn't mission critical.

I made my way back to the Sqn and explained the dilemma to the OpsO and was overheard by the Sqn boss who suggested I should go back and try again... however this time he followed and stood just outside the WO1s office listening in... Midway through the bollocking from the WO for my audacity at trying to make him change his mind the Wg Cdr walks in and said... "What the SAC is trying to say Mr xxx.. is that you are a ****wit!" followed by him adding that the next time he sends me for paper to meet the mission requirements that if I returned empty handed he would want an explanation in person.

Never had a problem after that.....

[Ken Scott]

We had exactly the same issue at the Secret Wiltshire Airbase in the early 90s. On the acquisition of a colour photocopier the nav would plan the route and we pilots would make a copy each rather than use 3 LFCs. Then we were told not to make copies as they came out of the station’s budget whereas LFCs came ‘free’ from AIDU’s, despite each one costing around 10 times more…

[Ninthace]

Indeed, whoever said that people were the RAF's most valuable asset never had the key to the cupboard where the copier paper was kept.

[pasta]

Back when ATC was provided by the CAA, allowances for detached duty were based on Civil Service rates and for days spent on duty away from one's normal place of employment, a fixed 'subsistence' rate was paid per day/night away.

I remember that in 1979, the subsistence rate was £15 per day, but many people, if not all, used to stay in 'Mrs Miggin's boarding house at £5 per night (including breakfast and evening meal) and pocket the rest.

When NATS took over, the monetary amount (it had of course risen over the years, in line with inflation) remained the same, but it was then subject to receipts. Of course, there was no money saved, as staff stayed in proper hotels and ate in more expensive restaurants, ensuring they spent up to the limit. However, there must have been a substantial increase in administration costs, with staff employed to check receipts against expenses.
I once worked for an organisation with a similar policy, and of course many of us stayed in the cheapest dives available; some even brought sandwiches from home for their evening meal. Switching to actuals may have created more admin, but it also encouraged the use of decent accommodation where one didn't have to shiver in a poorly-heated room with damp bedsheets or lie awake listening to mice scurrying above the ceiling, so we were almost certainly fitter for work the following day.
There were also a few people who would find ways to latch onto trips where they weren't needed, just to make a few quid on the subsistence. Switching to actuals removed this incentive, and in some circumstances may actually have saved money.

[ORAC]

But there was then a tendency to use hotels which were willing to be flexible and include liquid refreshment in the bar to be included under “evening meal”.

[BEagle]

Then there were those fraudulent idiots who thought that by securing a discount with a local photocopier sales place and presenting an invoice for the non-discounted figure, pocketing the difference, would be a great idea...

Until, that is, the next sale of the same model of photocopier was to a visiting Commands Account chap. "Would you like an invoice for the full amount, like the last RAF person, or the discounted figure" he was asked....

"Tell me more...."

[Null Orifice]

But there was then a tendency to use hotels which were willing to be flexible and include liquid refreshment in the bar to be included under “evening meal”.

"Beverages" I believe!

[Lomon]

But there was then a tendency to use hotels which were willing to be flexible and include liquid refreshment in the bar to be included under “evening meal”.

"Beverages" I believe!
Reminds me of a time where I'd been to a place for dinner where there was a special offer on a "Beer and a Burger"
When the claim was audited I was told - you can only claim for the burger part of the meal. Fortunately I had taken a photo of the menu that proved the burger alone was more expensive (cleverly I didn't photograph the drinks prices as they weren't in my entitlement)
When I asked for the full price of the burger the claim was grudgingly approved as there was no method to claim for a £10 item with an £8 receipt.

[Saintsman]

Not so much in the military world, but I’ve had problems with civil business expenses because some of the accountants seem to think that when travelling overseas, you are going on holiday. You must be having a good time by going out for a meal and are therefore taking the mick.

[[email protected]]

Long-range SAR rescue to a tanker at 17 deg W (250nm W of the Irish West coast.

Finished back at Shannon at 02:00 and were escorted to the hotel (no-one was fit to fly another 2:30 home and we were stood down by ARCCK.)

The hotel bar was still open and was happy to provide bar meals and 'beverages' which they very kindly receipted in the same way - you can't beat a few pints of the black Irish 'beverage' after a long day's work.:ok:

[ItsonlyMeagain]

As we have drifted on to rates…..

Gander, the second home of the C130 in the 90’s enroute to other exciting destinations.

Was rates of 100 Canadian or so; a good night was had for 60 ish. Not to be! Actuals required….. So, a couple of (rather wet) appetisers followed by the “Chateaubriand for two, for one” style of main course with some tasty wet side dishes, the game was to see how much the meal and soft drinks would reach.

Following a visit from a particularly enthusiastic VC10 crew, a couple of RAF plods were sent to spy on the crews. All that changed was the requirement to say “Evening Corporal” as one sauntered past. Strangely, we soon went back to rates….

Me

[sangiovese.]

Ahhh the FSI…..please don’t tell me they do that and have moved to a proper system…

[pasta]

Was rates of 100 Canadian or so; a good night was had for 60 ish. Not to be! Actuals required….. So, a couple of (rather wet) appetisers followed by the “Chateaubriand for two, for one” style of main course with some tasty wet side dishes, the game was to see how much the meal and soft drinks would reach.
I came unstuck once playing that game in the US. Because of the tipping culture endemic in those parts we were permitted to include tips at an appropriate rate, so long as we didn't exceed the overall limit. Out came the pocket calculators, and a lavish banquet was ordered that, including tips, would come within a few dollars of the limit. The meal was excellent, then the bill (sorry, check) arrived, with an alarmingly large number at the bottom. We'd remembered to account for tips, but not one of us had thought to add tax.

[Big Pistons Forever]

When I was flying for my last company we were deployed away from our home base for 3 to 4 months every summer. When I started per diems were handled like the Military with a rate for every meal and a requirement to fill in a sheet documenting each meal you actually had to pay for as sometimes the vendor provided meals. Every 2 weeks the sheet went in and the accounting department sorted out the amount to be reimbursed for each of the 70 odd pilots.

The company hired 2 temporary clerks every summer just to handle the per diem paperwork. One of the managers crunched the numbers and showed it was cheaper to just automatically pay everyone full rate, than hire people to handle each pilots expense report.

The company owner agreed and that’s what happened. The company saved money and the pilots had less paperwork and made a little extra on the day the vendor supplied meals, win - win 🥇

[SLXOwft]

A colleague and I got the civilian equivalent of an interview without coffee, having failed to take into account a dramatic decline in the value of the GBP v the CHF, we had a decent but not extravagant meal at a restaurant that colleagues had been using for years; the bill came to an amount that previously would have raised no comment but now significantly exceeded the GBP denominated allowance.:uhoh:

[NutLoose]

Swinderby, camping on the other side of the airfield and not Sherwood Forest due to AOC's. We had to make Salmon sandwiches for the 120 odd people and I was sick of the sight of the stuff, at the end of the exercise we still had a box of 24 large catering cans of Sockeye Salmon. Asking what do we do with it, we were told to bury it as the stores would not accept it back.... I often wondered if it is still there, what a waste..

[Asturias56]

Not so much in the military world, but I’ve had problems with civil business expenses because some of the accountants seem to think that when travelling overseas, you are going on holiday. You must be having a good time by going out for a meal and are therefore taking the mick.


On the other hand I went out to a meeting with the European Manger of a largish company - on the way back to his office he insisted we drop into a small eatery about 50m from the front door so he could eat and claim for feeding me as well................ normally everyone in a company knows who is fiddling their expenses

[megan]

Talking of perks, pilots in Oz were badgering the company to send them to sim training, for safety reasons you understand, company blanched at the cost because policy demanded international travel be first class. Pilots said we'll go economy to cut costs, first class it had to be because management didn't want to set a precedent that might see them lose perks. Captains only every two years, FO's not at all.

Wessex all grounded for lack of a particular spare, stores refused to issue said spares because what was on the shelves was minimum stock. All pilots ran out of currency.

One of the pilots was leading a Fairy Firefly restoration to flight standard, the question was asked of him where are you getting all the spares, from stores was the answer, this being some six years after the type was removed from service.

[MechEngr]

My company had a few travel policies develop. One was that alcohol could only be reimbursed with a meal. I was tempted to challenge that by purchasing a bottle of liquor and a bag of peanuts. Not sure why any company would reimburse alcohol regardless. The other was a sudden limit on dry cleaning. Apparently some smart one went on a 3 day trip and had 5 suits dry cleaned.

The field service guys complained quite bitterly about a proposal to change from per diem to expense and receipt reporting. Apparently someone in upper management thought that they were somehow taking advantage. Sure. They would apparently camp out in their cars and buy inexpensive food and pocket the rest and it was the latter part that made management angry. Pretty sure the field service workers were quite capable of finding expenses that far exceeded the per diem; AFAIK management caved and reason prevailed. I think part of the camping was for work out at Yuma Proving grounds.

I recall another case where management complained that the hotel bills were higher than they felt should be the case. Someone pointed out that there was one hotel near the facility and the next nearest hotel was some 30 or 60 miles away. I would not like to add a 1 to 2 hours of driving each day to save $10 a day on a hotel.

It is a continuous surprise that, for the most part, when people are trusted with millions or hundreds of millions in equipment and management is looking to nickle and dime them when almost always the employees are making rational choices - getting enough rest, going for the least expensive options (OK, some do treat themselves in a balance to sleeping on a bad mattress in a noisy hotel; steak? Steak is good.) and are dedicated to doing a good job for a client distant from the home office.