Lapsed IRR

[sluggums]

Hi, got a candidate for IRR renewal, he has the rating on the back of his ATPL. Lapsed about 20 years ago, however, he held a full IR up till 2 years ago. Trying to avoid the IRR ‘lapsed by more than 10 years’ caveat for a renewal. Been through 804 etc…

[rudestuff]

Why not just do an SEIR?

[sluggums]

Why not just do an SEIR?

AFAIK because he can’t currently cross-credit due to a lapsed IR, and would need an IRE, and it’s only good for 12 months?

[BEagle]

From CAP804:

An applicant who has held an ICAO IR(A) or military green aeroplane Instrument Rating or a UK professional pilots licence aeroplanes within the 10 years before the date of application for the IMC Rating is not required to undergo a course of flight or ground training but must pass the Theoretical Knowledge examination and initial IMC Rating /IR (Restricted) Skill Test.

BUT:

An applicant who has held an ICAO IR(A) or military green aeroplane Instrument Rating or a UK professional pilot licence aeroplanes or a valid Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Ground Instructors Certificate within the 5 years before the date of application for the IMC Rating / IR (Restricted) will be credited with a pass in the Theoretical Knowledge Examination.

So it would seem that he would just need to pass the IR(R) Skill Test, then apply to CAA to have the Rating included in his licence.

[sluggums]

From 804. But It seems to cover those wishing to be issued the rating rather than a renewal or revalidation.

The 5 and 10 year caveats don’t seem to cover someone who has held a full IR in the meantime…?

[BEagle]

The references do indeed includes credit for applicants who have held an ICAO IR(A)!

[sluggums]

The references do indeed includes credit for applicants who have held an ICAO IR(A)!

Before date of ‘application’, which implies initial issue…?

[Whopity]

Why would it not be an application to renew? If it was on the front of the licence the examiner could sign it.

[BEagle]

According to Standards Document 25 v3:

An IMC Rating or IR(R) is valid for 25 months. If the rating has lapsed by more than 5 years, the applicant is required to carry out dual training with an instructor before taking the renewal test. If the rating has lapsed by more than 10 years, the applicant is additionally required to pass the IMC Theoretical Knowledge Examination.

However, as the applicant held a valid ICAO IR(A) within the last 2 years, do the 5 and 10 year credits from training courses and theoretical knowledge exams apply for IR(R) renewal?

Note, however, that the FEH states:
Expired rating: If the rating has expired by more than 5 years then training at CFI’s discretion is required plus a full initial IMC Rating test. Logbook and Form SRG1125 must be sent to L&TS.

[Whopity]

The FEH statement really relates to the holder of an IR(R) stand alone.
The credit for having held an IR within the requisite period is valid for initial issue so there is no safety case for it not being available for renewal.

[BEagle]

The FEH statement really relates to the holder of an IR(R) stand alone.
The credit for having held an IR within the requisite period is valid for initial issue so there is no safety case for it not being available for renewal.

I agree 100%!!

[Mach Jump]

I love it when Whopity, and Beagle agree on something!


MJ:ok: