Refusal to stamp Logbook

[Haregot]

Dear all, have any of you faced a situation where your airline refused to sign your logbook upon resignation?
As EASA members, do you think airlines have legal rights to reject logbook stamping, and if so, where can one find the relevant rules?

[B2N2]

Dear all, have any of you faced a situation where your airline refused to sign your logbook upon resignation?
As EASA members, do you think airlines have legal rights to reject logbook stamping, and if so, where can one find the relevant rules?

Why would they?
Its not a flying school.
There is liability on their part also certifying something they’ve had no control over.
Get a copy from all your flying records they are legally obligated to keep but not obligated to share.
So ask nicely.

[lederhosen]

UK may be different from Europe but normally an employer is obligated to provide references, which as a pilot would reasonably include stamping logbooks. As a tip to others it is never a bad idea to get your logbook authenticated on a regular basis when you are in the office to avoid this kind of situation. Your base captain or some other senior colleague may be able to help in this scenario.

[Harry Grout]

I sign several documents every month verifying a pilots hours. ATPL upgrades is the current favourite. Large airline, hundreds of pilots. Quite often, they have been with us just a few months, so I have no choice but to take their logbook at face value. The system is farcical and open to cheating. Always has been.

[Ollie Onion]

I have never heard of an Airline Stamping a logbook? Why should they be able to stamp a personal legal record which may include personal flying. If they won’t stamp it why not get them to provide a letter stating the hours you flew with them.

[KAPAC]

Had a manager who’d sign a log book if it was within a certain % of what companies records indicated .

[iggy]

Dear all, have any of you faced a situation where your airline refused to sign your logbook upon resignation?
As EASA members, do you think airlines have legal rights to reject logbook stamping, and if so, where can one find the relevant rules?

It would be nice to know if that same airline demands to see a stamped logbook as proof of previous experience before hiring a new pilot.

[BoeingDriver99]

Buy a stamp online. Stamp the logbook. Problem solved. :ugh:

[BRAKES HOT]

A lot of people have moved to electronic logbooks these days anyway. Can't really stamp a iPhone. Another way to deal with it is with a letter verifying the hours at that particular company - so maybe ask them for that. Little easier in that it doesn't require a trip into Ops or wherever.

Failing that, take screenshots of your past roster / duties etc as evidence.

[NoelEvans]

No airline has ever 'stamped' my logbook and no-one has ever wanted to see any airline 'stamp' in my logbook.

The only 'stamp' that I have had in my logbook over the past several years was for my Kiwi BFR.

[FlyboyUK]

I’m onto the fifth airline in my career, I’ve never had my logbook stamped and it’s never been an issue.

[stilton]

In the US very few airline pilots even keep a log book

[meleagertoo]

Never even heard of stamping a logbook in civvie street. Certainly never been asked to show one. I hardly remember anyone giving my logbook more than a cursory look during my many job interviews.

[OvertHawk]

In almost thirty years and five or six jobs none of my employers have looked at my logbook at all.

My most recent employer did not even ask to see my licence before hiring me. First time they set eyes on it was when they signed it at the end of my type rating course.

I know of chief pilots who have been asked to sign logbooks and refused because they can't verify that the contents are correct and therefore don't want to be held accountable. One CP when pressed gave the individual a printout from the company's FTL system showing the flying they had done on company aircraft and signed that with a carefully worded phrase like "correct to the best of my knowledge".

[rigpiggy]

Had a manager who’d sign a log book if it was within a certain % of what companies records indicated .

I'd run a print out of the pilots fdtl, take the log randomly audit (yellow highlighter) check the times and issue a sticker. With name, has had random audit of logbook(1per page minimum)
Times flown in company aircraft(reggies) certified iaw car's 703/704 AOC# signed/license#

In Canada single pilot aircraft must be flown 2 pilot ifr if no autopilot in commercial applications.
This then allowed them to get atpl certs

[Herod]

I don't know whether it is still done, but in my RAF time, An entry every month was required, countersigned by one's immediate superior. Once a year by one rung up the ladder. I kept that habit, without the counter signature throughout my civil career. Looked at by someonesenior once I think.

[Loose rivets]

A quick snap of the day's ops returns - if they still exist - and files and backups kept at home.

Filling one's log book in used the be the law. I so wish I'd kept a diary and photos. I bought a camera so wondrous that it weighed in to a point where it pulled my neck to the ground. About 60 quid second hand in Malta.

[kikatinalong]

I have been asked to provide a stamped logbook only once before, with Korean. Have heard from others that they have been reqd from Chinese airlnes.

kika

[Central Scrutinizer]

Southern European countries + Germany also love a good stamping of any "official document". It's like the stamp elevates the document onto a new category of officialness that unstamped documents may never aspire to.

[A321drvr]

If you're heading to Asia get your logbooks stamped. If all else fails, get stamps made with logos of airlines you worked for and sign underneath with different pens.

[beamer]

Like others, in the military, logbook checked and signed every month. In the Commercial world, I do not recall ever having to show my logbooks to anyone in an airline - certainly never had one stamped.

As I am old school, I retain the habit of filling in my logbook every night when I get home from flying - takes seconds.

[CISTRS]

If you're heading to Asia get your logbooks stamped. If all else fails, get stamps made with logos of airlines you worked for and sign underneath with different pens.


Parker pens???

[58730]

Many Middle East and Far East based operators require stamped log books. My current employer requires a reference. Previous employer was very whimsical with stamping log books (and many other things). Ex colleagues had no other choice than getting it stamped by the Aviation Authority.

[Gordomac]

Gulfair recruiter in 1993 put it all in perspective. Rapidly arranged interview had me appear without log-books. Interviewer said ;"No worries. If you are not what you say you are, we will find out pretty quickly in the Sim!".

Interestingly, same company invited all pilots to present logbooks for regular verification and stamping.

In- between jobs, as a contract pilot, I thought it to be useful to have my entries verified and stamped although no-one actually requested the same at application stage. Transavia(Holland) thought it wise and willingly complied but said I was the only one requesting a monthly stamp. Well, the Sec was rather luvley.(got nowhere).

[golfbananajam]

Why would they?
Its not a flying school.
There is liability on their part also certifying something they’ve had no control over.
Get a copy from all your flying records they are legally obligated to keep but not obligated to share.
So ask nicely.

Under GDPR and/or FOI rules (or the relevant national equivalents), the "not obliged to share" bit may not apply.

[605carsten]

EASA FCL says it all….
“The pilot shall keep a reliable record of the details of all flights flown in a form and manner established by the competent authority”

and:

“details of flights flown under commercial air transport may be recorded in an electronic format maintained by the operator.
In this case an operator should make the records of all flights operated by the pilot, including differences and familiarisation training, available upon request to the flight crew member concerned”

So I am assuming the company is sending you monthly updates via email?

and also, a logbook is legally binding via your signature.. not by some stamp and a gold star stuck in..

[Uplinker]

I've flown for four UK airlines. All of them signed and stamped my log book when I left, or when they had called in the receivers, (gone bust). I think they cross checked with total hours from their own records.

Thought it was standard practice.

[hobbit1983]

A friend of mine was asked for a stamped certified logbook company. Had never had this done, or needed to (legit hours). He simply made a plausible looking stamp and used that. No problem.

[kikatinalong]

We used to have a similar stamp for gen decs on board (quite often missing). ME and India particularly, wouldnt accept them unless they had a some sort of stamp on it. Helped speed us on our way to the hotel.

kika

[sonicbum]

Where I work (EASA flag carrier) we do ask previous employer’s certified hours signed by the NPFO office + the command course diploma if we do need to hire Captains.
IMHO it does not make much sense to have somebody sign a logbook that can be easily edited afterwards, by adding a zero here and there to inflate the hours.

[NoelEvans]

...

As I am old school, I retain the habit of filling in my logbook every night when I get home from flying - takes seconds.
Something I should have been doing for a long time... Although, I'm only about a month behind now, so shouldn't take too long. (After half a century, I should have learnt my lesson by now!!)

[Check Airman]

In the age of digital logbooks, the number of paper logbooks dwindles every day. How’s the certification done with those? I haven’t had anyone sign/stamp/seal any of my professional flying records.

[meleagertoo]

Where I work (EASA flag carrier) we do ask previous employer’s certified hours signed by the NPFO office + the command course diploma if we do need to hire Captains.
IMHO it does not make much sense to have somebody sign a logbook that can be easily edited afterwards, by adding a zero here and there to inflate the hours.
What on earth is an NFPO office?
What on earth is a "command course diploma"? I've passed command courses in four European airlines and never heard of such a thing.
What are "certified hours"? My last employer (one of the two top Eu household names) did not keep personal records of our hours (or at least, did not keep them in a format accessible to us) more than a couple of years.

Just like "stamps in logbooks" it seems there is a variety of completely non-standard local aberrations that some seem to think are the industry norm when they simply aren't.

[Rabbit 1]

How about simply obtaining a Letter of Release? I received mine after the pandemic finished off my airline career. No logbook stamps needed. The letter stated who I was, the hours flown on a specific type, the date I joined and left and no record of accidents or incidents. Maybe it's different in the EU. My story was SE Asia.

The letter was signed off, stamped and I was given a handshake. Bye bye. Any new employer could then easily contact my previous airline and verify the letter as authentic. I recall it was a requirement for the airline to retain my hours etc for a period of five years after I had left.

[what next]

(After half a century, I should have learnt my lesson by now!!)

Reminds me of filling my tax forms... As far as stamped logbooks go they don't exist in my part of the world (Germany/national/JAR/EASA). There is no single stamp or signature in any of my logbooks that I keep since 1977 or 1978 and no one ever asked me for one. What would be the point anyway? If I can fake logbook entries, I can certainly fake a stamp and a signature as well.

[Uplinker]

.......In the Commercial world, I do not recall ever having to show my logbooks to anyone in an airline..........
As I am old school, I retain the habit of filling in my logbook every night when I get home from flying - takes seconds.

In the four UK airline interviews I attended, the pilot person on the interview board would leaf through my (paper) log books while the HR person was asking me their questions. In one interview there was just the Chief Pilot and the Deputy Chief Pilot - there was no HR. so there were only sensible questions; Bliss !! The Deputy CP checked my log books.

I am old school too and always keep a paper log book. I don't trust such an important thing to electronic storage. I updated mine every day in the crew room after the duty, or in the hotel if we were down route.