Aero Maleth Diversion

[wowzz]

Not exactly sure where to post this, but I see that an Aero Maleth flight from Barbados to Manchester, had to divert to Bermuda, after hitting clear air turbulence, with 11 pax requiring hospital treatment. Flight now scheduled to depart midday tomorrow.
Probably not the best way to spend Christmas Day.

[Lonewolf_50]

I wonder how many of them had removed their seat belts.
Any word on injury to the cabin crew?

[FUMR]

I wonder how many of them had removed their seat belts.
Any word on injury to the cabin crew?

If it was unexpected turbulence there will always be passengers on their way to or from the bathroom and cabin crew will also be walking around. If there was some indication and the FD crew had turned on the signs, then fair comment. As a passenger who always keeps his seat belt fastened I'm always apprehensive when I have to leave my seat for a bathroom call. You then of course get FD crews who turn on the seat belts sign and conveniently forget about it. Eventually passengers ignore it, especially if they have delayed their bathroom call for half an hour or more and there hasn't been the slightest bump!

[Wimboy]

It's still there! rescue flight posn ex LGW (Maleth) today...

pax are in 5* hotel..friends of mine on it!

Looks like straight turn due back in Wythenshawe International approx 0200 tomorrow.. Best part of 48 hours late! 😉

Dunno if EU 261 would apply ?

[Wycombe]

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course - for Maleth-Aero.

This flight was one of a series being run by them for P&O Cruises, carrying cruise pax between LGW/MAN and BGI/ANU for the UK winter season, using 2 A332's based temporarily at LGW and MAN.
Most of these flights (utilising usually 5 787's each day over 2-day weekend ship turnarounds) are provided by Tui - but Maleth were brought in quite "late in the day" to provide extra capacity after other airlines (one was Virgin, according to rumour) renaged on a Contract. I re-iterate rumour as there were lots of stories circulating as to how that "late in the day" involvement came about.

I was on one of said cruises returning to the UK on 2nd Dec from BGI, flying Tui, but one of the Maleth flights (BGI-MAN) picked-up an approx 12 hour delay, apparently due to their MAN-based a/c being u/s for the outbound sector and a replacement having to be rushed there from storage in Chateauroux. I would imagine crewing was also an issue.

These flights had already lit up complaints to P&O, due to pax having paid for premium seats in advance, and the Maleth a/c not having them, and also due to a lack of IFE - which the Tui, and other aircraft usually used have, of course.

Rightly or wrongly, this incident will have added to P&O's woes with using this carrier, although as I said, of course, it can happen to any airline.

[SamPope5]

Was on TOM099 on Saturday that departed an hour earlier following same route back to the UK was glad to be on TUI as always had a good experience with them flying long haul. Experienced a fair bit of turbulence in the first few hours with the crew informing us just after take off to prepare and expect the unsettled turbulence with the seatbelt sign being on for a while.

[wowzz]

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course - for Maleth-Aero.

This flight was one of a series being run by them for P&O Cruises, carrying cruise pax between LGW/MAN and BGI/ANU for the UK winter season, using 2 A332's based temporarily at LGW and MAN.
Most of these flights (utilising usually 5 787's each day over 2-day weekend ship turnarounds) are provided by Tui - but Maleth were brought in quite "late in the day" to provide extra capacity after other airlines (one was Virgin, according to rumour) renaged on a Contract. I re-iterate rumour as there were lots of stories circulating as to how that "late in the day" involvement came about.

I was on one of said cruises returning to the UK on 2nd Dec from BGI, flying Tui, but one of the Maleth flights (BGI-MAN) picked-up an approx 12 hour delay, apparently due to their MAN-based a/c being u/s for the outbound sector and a replacement having to be rushed there from storage in Chateauroux. I would imagine crewing was also an issue.

These flights had already lit up complaints to P&O, due to pax having paid for premium seats in advance, and the Maleth a/c not having them, and also due to a lack of IFE - which the Tui, and other aircraft usually used have, of course.

Rightly or wrongly, this incident will have added to P&O's woes with using this carrier, although as I said, of course, it can happen to any airline.
According to a P&O insider on another forum, neither BA or VS signed any contracts, so no company reneged. However P&O proceeded with their W23/24 Caribbean cruise programme on the assumption that they would get the capacity they required from BA/VS. However, BA/VS felt that their aircraft could be more profitably utilised on scheduled flights, rather than P&O charters.
Fast forward to 2023, and suddenly P&O find they need 1200 l/h seats every weekend for their winter Caribbean season, with no obvious options. The P&O shortlist for potential suppliers must have been extremely short ! Maleth must have been able to drive a pretty hard bargain, knowing that P&O had really no other options.

[Wycombe]

According to a P&O insider on another forum, neither BA or VS signed any contracts, so no company reneged. However P&O proceeded with their W23/24 Caribbean cruise programme on the assumption that they would get the capacity they required from BA/VS. However, BA/VS felt that their aircraft could be more profitably utilised on scheduled flights, rather than P&O charters.
Fast forward to 2023, and suddenly P&O find they need 1200 l/h seats every weekend for their winter Caribbean season, with no obvious options. The P&O shortlist for potential suppliers must have been extremely short ! Maleth must have been able to drive a pretty hard bargain, knowing that P&O had really no other options.

Well, like I said there was lots of rumour as to what's gone on, both on board ship and on various fora. What seems to be for sure, as you say, is that P&O found themselves in a tight spot short of capacity to get pax to and from the 2 ships that they have in the Carribean this Winter, and have probably paid over the odds for what has turned-out to be a far from great service from Maleth. The CAT encounter could, again, of course, have happened to any carrier, but the recovery from the situation seems to be far from optimal also (although the fact that this happened over xmas has probably not helped).

By the way, it's a lot more than 1,200 seats needed every weekend, the 2 ships currently in Carribean, Britannia and Arvia have capacities over around 3,600 and 5,000 respectively. They do turn-arounds (in BGI or ANU) on alternate weekends. Or maybe you meant 1,200 extra seats over and above what they already had contracted? As I said to people I discussed this with on our cruise, that kind of short-notice capacity doesn't grow on trees!

[wowzz]

Well, like I said there was lots of rumour as to what's gone on, both on board ship and on various fora. What seems to be for sure, as you say, is that P&O found themselves in a tight spot short of capacity to get pax to and from the 2 ships that they have in the Carribean this Winter, and have probably paid over the odds for what has turned-out to be a far from great service from Maleth. The CAT encounter could, again, of course, have happened to any carrier, but the recovery from the situation seems to be far from optimal also (although the fact that this happened over xmas has probably not helped).

By the way, it's a lot more than 1,200 seats needed every weekend, the 2 ships currently in Carribean, Britannia and Arvia have capacities over around 3,600 and 5,000 respectively. They do turn-arounds (in BGI or ANU) on alternate weekends. Or maybe you meant 1,200 extra seats over and above what they already had contracted? As I said to people I discussed this with on our cruise, that kind of short-notice capacity doesn't grow on trees!
To clarify, P&O require 1200 seats over and above the number contracted to TUI.
There is a suggestion/rumour that in future, P&O will sell a certain number of cruise only fares in the Caribbean (as you know, you cannot currently unbundle the fly/cruise package). This will obviously appeal to those who want to add on a pre or post cruise hotel stay, but given the current BA/VS fares to the Caribbean, P&O will need to offer some extremely attractive prices if they wish to divert a singnificant number of custoners away from their charter flights.

[Wycombe]

To clarify, P&O require 1200 seats over and above the number contracted to TUI.
There is a suggestion/rumour that in future, P&O will sell a certain number of cruise only fares in the Caribbean (as you know, you cannot currently unbundle the fly/cruise package). This will obviously appeal to those who want to add on a pre or post cruise hotel stay, but given the current BA/VS fares to the Caribbean, P&O will need to offer some extremely attractive prices if they wish to divert a singnificant number of custoners away from their charter flights.

Yes, I've heard this rumour also. To be honest, I think they'll struggle to fill the ships if they go down that route. I think prices, including the flights out and back are already pretty good. We paid around £1,600pp for a 2 week cruise in a balcony cabin, including the return Tui flights, and with £700 on-board spend thrown in (ie, "free" money to spend on-board) for the 2 of us in our cabin. I think that's pretty good value for a Carribean holiday that took in 9 islands in total.

To update on the current situation with the diverted flight, the A330 sent from LGW to rescue the pax is just arriving in BDA. The aircraft they were originally on when diverted arrived 58hrs ago!

[wowzz]

Yes, I've heard this rumour also. To be honest, I think they'll struggle to fill the ships if they go down that route. I think prices, including the flights out and back are already pretty good. We paid around £1,600pp for a 2 week cruise in a balcony cabin, including the return Tui flights, and with £700 on-board spend thrown in (ie, "free" money to spend on-board) for the 2 of us in our cabin. I think that's pretty good value for a Carribean holiday that took in 9 islands in total.

To update on the current situation with the diverted flight, the A330 sent from LGW to rescue the pax is just arriving in BDA. The aircraft they were originally on when diverted arrived 58hrs ago!
I agree about the value for money aspect - we paid slightly more than you for our December 1st cruise but with our shareholder obc, we had over £1000 obc. Finally had to "pay" fir our own drinks on the last day !
Realistically, P&O would have to reduce their fares by over £500 pp for cruise only customers, and even then, many of us would still prefer the convenience of flying from a local airport (BHX for us) rather than the slog to MAN or LHR/LGW.

[WHBM]

This is the latest in a run of negative publicity - although any airline's aircraft can run into unexpected CAT of course
Maybe, although looking at a weather aftercast it does look like they ran into this problem in the tail end of a weather front strung out across the mid-Atlantic (the start of this will be over the UK in the next couple of days).

Routing to avoid suspect weather, or going straight through it, is something that does differ between operators, as anyone who has experience of various carriers operating in Asia around the equator can tell you. Fuel efficiency calculations for a direct track come into it, as does substantial experience by crews in operations in such areas, and differing approaches for seatbelts on/off in the cruise. I suspect that the readership on here are almost universally "seatbelts on" throughout cruise anyway, something not duplicated by the general pax numbers.

Meanwhile we have a carrier here based in ... well, it's difficult to tell where. Aircraft registered in Malta, seemingly stood in Chateauroux, France between contracts, website that gives no indication where their executive offices or senior management are.

[421dog]

On a fairly pedestrian upper Midwest commute to work in my pressurized piston twin a couple of weeks ago, I found myself being bounced around sufficiently that my head hit the headliner a few times, but the autopilot didn’t disconnect or anything like I have experienced when I felt obliged to make a PIREP in the past for such. After it calmed down, I poked around on my (fairly new) Sentry AHRS (which has a recording G monitor). It said that I was in +-2.4 G for around 10 minutes.

I always wear my seatbelt on commercial flights, but flying an airliner and having passengers bouncing around in the cabin in similar conditions is a terrifying idea.

[WHBM]

I always wear my seatbelt on commercial flights, but flying an airliner and having passengers bouncing around in the cabin in similar conditions is a terrifying idea.
Like I suspect a number of others here, I experienced this quite some years ago in a 767, as well as passengers there were issues with the catering and baggage making parabolas around the cabin, which required a diversion and a couple of passengers and crew needing to be offloaded..

As an aside, I described aspects of this subsequently on here, and was most surprised that the FO of that flight made contact back.

[Wycombe]

Realistically, P&O would have to reduce their fares by over £500 pp for cruise only customers, and even then, many of us would still prefer the convenience of flying from a local airport (BHX for us) rather than the slog to MAN or LHR/LGW.

I spoke to some people on our last day on board Britannia (2nd Dec) who had just paid £600pp to stay onboard for another 2 weeks - whilst I suspect this was a "one-off" to sell remaining cabins and not indicative of future pricing, that was a bargain and I was tempted!

It looks like the poor people who were stuck in Bermuda over xmas at P&O/Maleth or an insurer's expense are now finally en-route back to MAN.

[wowzz]

I spoke to some people on our last day on board Britannia (2nd Dec) who had just paid £600pp to stay onboard for another 2 weeks - whilst I suspect this was a "one-off" to sell remaining cabins and not indicative of future pricing, that was a bargain and I was tempted!

It looks like the poor people who were stuck in Bermuda over xmas at P&O/Maleth or an insurer's expense are now finally en-route back to MAN.
That is indeed a bargain price ! As you know, we were on the December 1st/2nd cruise, and the cruise was far from full (and all the better because of it), hence the incentive to book another two weeks.
Not sure I would want to be sailing on her currently, at 110% capacity. (ie - all lower bunks filled = 100% capacity, and all pull down bunks, sofa beds etc filled =110% capacity. )

[compton3bravo]

A friend of mine flew out on Maleth from Gatwick saying it was one of the worst flights she has ever been on (she is a very experienced traveller), the food was awful and very few drinks and of course no IFE. She contacted me saying this was not what she expected from P&O and dreading the return flight.

[SWBKCB]

A friend of mine flew out on Maleth from Gatwick saying it was one of the worst flights she has ever been on (she is a very experienced traveller), the food was awful and very few drinks and of course no IFE. She contacted me saying this was not what she expected from P&O and dreading the return flight.

Didn't Maleth get the work because P&O weren't happy with TUI last winter (use of third party leases etc) - you get what you pay for?

[Wycombe]

Didn't Maleth get the work because P&O weren't happy with TUI last winter (use of third party leases etc) - you get what you pay for?
I recall there were problems with Tui last winter - short-notice substititions mostly using Wamos IIRC are I think what you're referring to - but it seems to be that for reasons discussed further up the thread, P&O found themselves short of quite a bit of the capacity needed to get full ship-loads to and from the Carribean this winter, and Maleth-Aero were contracted late-in-the-day to help address the shortfall. Whether P&O will ever divulge to loyal Customers such as ourselves (this was our 9th cruise with them) what has really gone on that led to this sitution - I'm not holding my breath!

Based on the 2 weekends that we travelled (18/11 and 02/12, when 5 Tui 787's flew to BGI and back on both the Fridays and Saturdays) and from looking at flights over subsequent weekends, Tui's performance at least from a on-time perspective seems to have been mostly ok. Service on both of our flights was professional and friendly, food was decent (easily up to scheduled long-haul economy standard) and the IFE worked!

[WHBM]

the food was awful and very few drinks.
Catering on charters/sub-charters is wholly up to the charterer rather than the operating airline, anything from champagne service to nothing can be requested. of course, the charterer may have just asked for the operator's default, and not done their due diligence on it.

[Lonewolf_50]

Let's see, people got injured due to turbulence, and you lot run amok about cabin service as regards food and beverage?

Here's tuppence, go and rent a clue.

[Wycombe]

Let's see, people got injured due to turbulence, and you lot run amok about cabin service as regards food and beverage?

Here's tuppence, go and rent a clue.

Little, actually nothing (that I have seen) has been reported about the incident - and the UK media especially love picking-up on the slightest, often very minor aviation incident - so one can only assume that nothing serious has occured. Even the jungle drums from within the industry, or from people who were involved, have been silent.

If that had not been the case, I suspect that the way this thread has gone would have been very different.

Have your tuppence back!

[SWBKCB]

Why is the a/c involved still in Bermuda since 24/12?

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

Why is the a/c involved still in Bermuda since 24/12?

Engineering rumour is that it has a SERIOUS structural issue.

[wowzz]

A friend of mine flew out on Maleth from Gatwick saying it was one of the worst flights she has ever been on (she is a very experienced traveller), the food was awful and very few drinks and of course no IFE. She contacted me saying this was not what she expected from P&O and dreading the return flight.
To clarify, food quality is down to P&O, not Maleth, and drink service in the economy cabin is restricted on both TUI and Maleth flights.
Not sure what she expected for a charter flight on a cheap cruise holiday. Perhaps next time she should book with a more upmarket cruise line, and fly on a scheduled service, and pay accordingly !

[wowzz]

Engineering rumour is that it has a SERIOUS structural issue.
Due to depart today I believe, bound for MAN.

[Lonewolf_50]

Have your tuppence back! Thank you, the tax man cometh. :uhoh:

Due to depart today I believe, bound for MAN. Empty, or with people in it? If the former, that might point to more damage than if the latter.

[wowzz]

Thank you, the tax man cometh. :uhoh:

Empty, or with people in it? If the former, that might point to more damage than if the latter.
Departing empty. The stranded pax flew back to the UK on Boxing Day (iirc) on a replacement aircraft.
I would have thought that if additional engineering work was required, the aircraft would have positioned to somewhere other than MAN.

[SWBKCB]

STS at MAN could probably cope with any work required, they've already looked after one striken 330 this week

[SpringHeeledJack]

STS at MAN could probably cope with any work required, they've already looked after one striken 330 this week

​​​​​​​Was that the wingtip oopsie ?

[SWBKCB]

Yes :ok:

[wowzz]

STS at MAN could probably cope with any work required, they've already looked after one striken 330 this week
Thanks for the information. It would be interesting to know what engineering work is required, but I guess that is not for general consumption?

[Wycombe]

Thanks for the information. It would be interesting to know what engineering work is required, but I guess that is not for general consumption?
A/C in question (9H-MFS) is now back in MAN, having arrived at around 8.30 last night

[Win Win]

To clarify, food quality is down to P&O, not Maleth, and drink service in the economy cabin is restricted on both TUI and Maleth flights.
Not sure what she expected for a charter flight on a cheap cruise holiday. Perhaps next time she should book with a more upmarket cruise line, and fly on a scheduled service, and pay accordingly !

we’re on P&O’s Arvia as I text this, the bottom line is P&O’s operational management is an absolute shambles, we currently have 24 outstanding “concerns” after the first of two weeks cruise. I honestly believe that it’s P&O’s lack of ability to organise that putting these flight operations under distress. P&O screwed up big time and Maleth are carrying the can, and it’s obviously now highlighting safety concerns, latest apparently was a crew out of hours so ships been stuck in Antigua because we had to wait until 01.30 to unload pax for the flight back…place looked like a refugee camp and our Tortola stop has been cancelled. Use P&O at your peril!!

[wowzz]

we’re on P&O’s Arvia as I text this, the bottom line is P&O’s operational management is an absolute shambles, we currently have 24 outstanding “concerns” after the first of two weeks cruise. I honestly believe that it’s P&O’s lack of ability to organise that putting these flight operations under distress. P&O screwed up big time and Maleth are carrying the can, and it’s obviously now highlighting safety concerns, latest apparently was a crew out of hours so ships been stuck in Antigua because we had to wait until 01.30 to unload pax for the flight back…place looked like a refugee camp and our Tortola stop has been cancelled. Use P&O at your peril!!
I think that P&O's inability to find a carrier that can transport 2000+ pax over a weekend is gradually bringing the whole cruising model into meltdown mode.
Basically, P&O have more passenger berths available than there are flight seats. Given the hole they were in, P&O options were virtually none. Aero Maleth were their only option, and an expensive one at that.
In all honesty, I'm not sure how P&O can get out of this mess.
It appears that they will soon start selling cruise only fares, but given the cost of scheduled flights, these new fares will need to be very cheap indeed.
But, cruise ships make money at 60/70% capacity, so P&O perhaps aren't too worried. Carnival plc may have a different point of view!

[Klauss]

Hi, I read a lot about passengers and P&O troubles with logistics. What about the flight ? Have details emerged, like when / where the turbulence struck ?
Thanks

[Menavour]

I spoke to some people on our last day on board Britannia (2nd Dec) who had just paid £600pp to stay onboard for another 2 weeks - whilst I suspect this was a "one-off" to sell remaining cabins and not indicative of future pricing, that was a bargain and I was tempted!

It looks like the poor people who were stuck in Bermuda over xmas at P&O/Maleth or an insurer's expense are now finally en-route back to MAN.
Those poor people were put up at 5 star Hamilton Palace where I am staying over Christmas and New Year.Whilst very sorry for their experience and plight I had to apologise to fellow residents for the behaviour of some of their number during the days they were here.

[Wycombe]

Those poor people were put up at 5 star Hamilton Palace where I am staying over Christmas and New Year.Whilst very sorry for their experience and plight I had to apologise to fellow residents for the behaviour of some of their number during the days they were here.
I guess they were drowning their sorrows, not that I am in anyway condoning inappropriate behaviour.

Misbehave onboard and there's a fairly good chance you'll be booted off at the next port and left to make your way home at your own expense - for those not aware this happens on a fairly regular basis - I heard that a few were treated as such (being expelled in Madeira) on Britannia's "positioning" transatlantic cruise (from Southampton base to Barbados) for the current winter season.

[davidjpowell]

I guess they were drowning their sorrows, not that I am in anyway condoning inappropriate behaviour.

Misbehave onboard and there's a fairly good chance you'll be booted off at the next port and left to make your way home at your own expense - for those not aware this happens on a fairly regular basis - I heard that a few were treated as such (being expelled in Madeira) on Britannia's "positioning" transatlantic cruise (from Southampton base to Barbados) for the current winter season.
Like wise on Arvia. 2 couples left on Tortola after fighting, and 2 people left after becoming 'over familiar' in one of the hot tubs...

There is an interesting little squabble on the forums caused by the knock on to this on the following weeks flight, where passengers are claiming that the outbound crew to Antigua (delayed), then turned around flew the return. Seems somewhat illegal and highly unlikely to me.

[Win Win]

Does anyone have any info on Maleth 9H-MFS that had the diversion last week, last flight was from Bermuda to Manchester empty and was supposed to position from Manchester to Gatwick @17.00 today but it doesn’t look like it happened, is there still a question mark over this airframe?

[rog747]

Here's the thing,
P&O simply have had to go to Maleth (who >? you may ask lol) as there are NO spare long haul charter aircraft anymore in the UK.

Why,
TUI have vastly increased their own Fly-Cruises with their Marella brand, thus leaving P&O up the creek this season.
P&O were hoping to use Virgin for extra Charters but this did not get going as we know.
TUI have also got 787 airframes in MX this winter to have major checks and cabin refurbs.

As for the Maleth bad reports of the 'soft product' yes true,
P&O could have simply arranged for an enhanced catering on the meals, and perhaps offered free drinks (but they maybe free already anyway?)
Also ensure a pillow and a decent blanket on each seat.
We used to have for our cruise flights for P&O, or Cunard logo headrest covers on the seats - All small things, but the Pax do notice.

Having no IFE is pretty Naff these days on a Long haul flight, but many folk will bring a book, and a Pad to watch content, but there is NO at-seat power :(

Historically in the past for these Fly-Cruise flights we had wide bodies from Monarch, Thomson/First Choice, Thomas Cook/Condor, BA (using charter 767-300's) and even Virgin Atlantic flying the many cruise ship charters to take pax out to their The Caribbean Fly-Cruises in the winter peak season to BGI, ANU, and SJU.
Great work then for the charter airlines in an otherwise quieter period.
Now there is simply no one that P&O can turn to as TUI do not have enough uplift for even their own, nor these flights.

P&O could buy in seats (bulk amounts) on BA and VS Scheduled flights but this costing even using the cheapest IT fares would likely be prohibitive for P&O to sustain in the long term.
Aer Lingus (MAN), and Norse (LGW), also fly to BGI but these schedules may not fit in with ''cruise ship day''.

So there we have it...

Edit - also Maleth fly their A330's in a very nasty 3-3-3 config at 345 Y (remember Monarch's A300's with 361 seats yuk)

[barry lloyd]

Does anyone have any info on Maleth 9H-MFS that had the diversion last week, last flight was from Bermuda to Manchester empty and was supposed to position from Manchester to Gatwick @17.00 today but it doesn’t look like it happened, is there still a question mark over this airframe?

According to FR24, the same flight is supposed to take place today, 5th Jan. We shall see...

[Brian Pern]

Here's the thing,
P&O simply have had to go to Maleth (who >? you may ask lol) as there are NO spare long haul charter aircraft anymore in the UK......

As for the Maleth bad reports of the 'soft product' yes true,
P&O could have simply arranged for an enhanced catering on the meals, and perhaps offered free drinks (but they maybe free already anyway?)
Also ensure a pillow and a decent blanket on each seat.
We used to have for our cruise flights for P&O, or Cunard logo headrest covers on the seats - All small things, but the Pax do notice.

Having no IFE is pretty Naff these days on a Long haul flight, but many folk will bring a book, and a Pad to watch content, but there is NO at-seat power :(
......
So there we have it...

Edit - also Maleth fly their A330's in a very nasty 3-3-3 config at 345 Y (remember Monarch's A300's with 361 seats yuk)

Well Maleth do have links with European Skybus (Paul Stoddart), where the planes came from. Memories of Travel City Direct.

[rog747]

Well Maleth do have links with European Skybus (Paul Stoddart), where the planes came from. Memories of Travel City Direct.

Yes indeed, I live quite near to BOH Hurn.

I was tongue-in-cheek as to who are Maleth.

An old pal of mine who used to fly for Caledonian CKT and KT, was actually recruiting for experienced Cabin Crew last year for European & its associates to start ACMI pax charter flights.
However it seems the Malta connection has got the P&O contract.

[WHBM]

As for the Maleth bad reports of the 'soft product' yes true,
P&O could have simply arranged for an enhanced catering on the meals,
As we have already discussed, the soft product on a charter is wholly down to the charterer, though I think some like to try and palm off poor experiences onto their selected airline operator.

I do recall the same operator and aircraft doing, separately, charters to the Formula 1 in Monaco (decent steaks and champagne), and for a car company staff shuttle between their UK and German locations (nothing, not even a glass of water).

[G-AZUK]

plenty of other Longhaul options, but MLT was clearly the chepaest and/or the one the selected broker could make the most money from.

As for soft product, not every airline has the same capability and skillset to procure and deliver enhanced products, if an Airlines raison d'etre is usually junking around ACMI flying for other carriers then it is unlilely MLT have the capabilities to get this set up, something else which could have been checked beforehand by those earning money out of these flights.

Theres a lesson for P&O here which hopefully they have heeded, and as for those involved who trumpeted the early few flights, they have gone remakably quiet since.

[rog747]

plenty of other Longhaul options, (There is NOT) but MLT was clearly the cheapest and/or the one the selected broker could make the most money from.

As for soft product, not every airline has the same capability and skill set to procure and deliver enhanced products (Oh Seriously LOL!), if an Airlines raison d'etre is usually junking around ACMI flying for other carriers then it is unlikely MLT have the capabilities to get this set up, something else which could have been checked beforehand by those earning money out of these flights. (MLT has other A330's in their fleet with J Class seating for ACMI!)

There's a lesson for P&O here (Er, yes) which hopefully they have heeded, and as for those involved who trumpeted the early few flights, they have gone remarkably quiet since.


Sorry, I do beg to differ, and as I posted earlier that there are simply no alternate UK based Long Haul wide body Charter options for P&O today...(Only TUI - and they cannot provide the uplift).
Virgin Atlantic who have previously flown many Cruise Ship charters Contracts seemingly they did not want this gig.

As for Flight Catering/soft product, WHBM concurs with me, that any airline can Contract with a Flight Kitchen and book whatever the paying Charterer wants (P&O Cruises in this case).
If P&O had chosen to go for decent enhanced Hot meals/plus Afternoon Tea, and Dinner/Hot Breakfast on the return homeward then they could have done this.
Both LGW and MAN have the full capacity to provide whatever the Airline and Charterer specifies for its Catering uplift and will pay for.
​​​​​​​The A330's that MLT fly, do have ovens/galleys etc, and they are geared up for Legacy ACMI work with 2 A330's with both J and Y Class seating.
So what's the problem here?

​​​​​​​The whole Contract stinks and the UK Travel Industry has been very critical of P&O's total flunk up here...

[galgurl]

might be a great business opportunity for Global Airlines A380 if they get off the ground for next winter?

[wowzz]

Here's the thing,
P&O simply have had to go to Maleth (who >? you may ask lol) as there are NO spare long haul charter aircraft anymore in the UK.

Why,
TUI have vastly increased their own Fly-Cruises with their Marella brand, thus leaving P&O up the creek this season.
P&O were hoping to use Virgin for extra Charters but this did not get going as we know.
TUI have also got 787 airframes in MX this winter to have major checks and cabin refurbs.

As for the Maleth bad reports of the 'soft product' yes true,
P&O could have simply arranged for an enhanced catering on the meals, and perhaps offered free drinks (but they maybe free already anyway?)
Also ensure a pillow and a decent blanket on each seat.
We used to have for our cruise flights for P&O, or Cunard logo headrest covers on the seats - All small things, but the Pax do notice.

Having no IFE is pretty Naff these days on a Long haul flight, but many folk will bring a book, and a Pad to watch content, but there is NO at-seat power :(

Historically in the past for these Fly-Cruise flights we had wide bodies from Monarch, Thomson/First Choice, Thomas Cook/Condor, BA (using charter 767-300's) and even Virgin Atlantic flying the many cruise ship charters to take pax out to their The Caribbean Fly-Cruises in the winter peak season to BGI, ANU, and SJU.
Great work then for the charter airlines in an otherwise quieter period.
Now there is simply no one that P&O can turn to as TUI do not have enough uplift for even their own, nor these flights.

P&O could buy in seats (bulk amounts) on BA and VS Scheduled flights but this costing even using the cheapest IT fares would likely be prohibitive for P&O to sustain in the long term.
Aer Lingus (MAN), and Norse (LGW), also fly to BGI but these schedules may not fit in with ''cruise ship day''.

So there we have it...

Edit - also Maleth fly their A330's in a very nasty 3-3-3 config at 345 Y (remember Monarch's A300's with 361 seats yuk)
But TUI also fly in a 3-3-3 configuration.

[wowzz]

Sorry, I do beg to differ, and as I posted earlier that there are simply no alternate UK based Long Haul wide body Charter options for P&O today...(Only TUI - and they cannot provide the uplift).
Virgin Atlantic who have previously flown many Cruise Ship charters Contracts seemingly they did not want this gig.

As for Flight Catering/soft product, WHBM concurs with me, that any airline can Contract with a Flight Kitchen and book whatever the paying Charterer wants (P&O Cruises in this case).
If P&O had chosen to go for decent enhanced Hot meals/plus Afternoon Tea, and Dinner/Hot Breakfast on the return homeward then they could have done this.
Both LGW and MAN have the full capacity to provide whatever the Airline and Charterer specifies for its Catering uplift and will pay for.
The A330's that MLT fly, do have ovens/galleys etc, and they are geared up for Legacy ACMI work with 2 A330's with both J and Y Class seating.
So what's the problem here?

​​​​​​​The whole Contract stinks and the UK Travel Industry has been very critical of P&O's total flunk up here...
AFAIK, the catering for both TUI and MLT flights is the same. So, from my experience last month, hot meal and then afternoon tea on outbound sector, hot meal and hot breakfast on inbound sector.

[Win Win]

P&O now using Norse (ZO766), likely to replace 9H-MFS’s capacity as the aircraft appears to be having trouble getting from MAN to LGW..

[rog747]

But TUI also fly in a 3-3-3 configuration.

The point here is that the Airbus wide body is configured best as 242 and not in high density 333 which is unpleasant

The bigger A350 is 333

the 787 is designed for 333 and TUI have a comfortable economy arrangement

[wowzz]

The point here is that the Airbus wide body is configured best as 242 and not in high density 333 which is unpleasant

The bigger A350 is 333

the 787 is designed for 333 and TUI have a comfortable economy arrangement
Although looking at the seat data, seat width and seat pitch appear to be identical on the A330 and the 787.
On a mundane level, P&O needed every possible seat, so even if a 242 configuration was available, the 3-3-3 layout would have been required.

[Wycombe]

AFAIK, the catering for both TUI and MLT flights is the same. So, from my experience last month, hot meal and then afternoon tea on outbound sector, hot meal and hot breakfast on inbound sector.
That's my understanding also, from people I spoke to on-board Britannia who had flown Maleth. The catering doesn't seem to be the focus of complaints.

When we arrived in BGI (Sat 18th Nov) and when we left (Sat 2nd Dec) there was a scheduled Norse 789 (from LGW) on the ground on both occasions, so the timing of their flights might be of use to P&O.

However, FR24 currently shows that another A332 9H-EFS is currently en-route LGW-BGI as MLT1972 (for the first rotation of the weekend, albeit 2hrs down), so will presumably operate tomorrows flight also?

[wowzz]

That's my understanding also, from people I spoke to on-board Britannia who had flown Maleth. The catering doesn't seem to be the focus of complaints.

When we arrived in BGI (Sat 18th Nov) and when we left (Sat 2nd Dec) there was a scheduled Norse 789 (from LGW) on the ground on both occasions, so the timing of their flights might be of use to P&O.

However, FR24 currently shows that another A332 9H-EFS is currently en-route LGW-BGI as MLT1972 (for the first rotation of the weekend, albeit 2hrs down), so will presumably operate tomorrows flight also?
Isn't the Norse flight in fact a P&O charter, being used due to a MAH aircraft going tech ?
Certainly Norse flights have been operating out of LGW recently, in place of MAH flights.

[Wycombe]

Isn't the Norse flight in fact a P&O charter, being used due to a MAH aircraft going tech ?
Certainly Norse flights have been operating out of LGW recently, in place of MAH flights.
Don't think so. On the day we left the ship, we were given a list of flights and report times/places to meet onboard. Norse was not listed.

Possible that could've changed, but for today (according to what I can currently see on FR24) there are 5 Tui 787 and 2 Maleth 330's making their way from the UK to BGI (for P&O). It should be the same pattern of operation tomorrow, as the ship turn-around is done over 2 days.

[wowzz]

Don't think so. On the day we left the ship, we were given a list of flights and report times/places to meet onboard. Norse was not listed.

Possible that could've changed, but for today (according to what I can currently see on FR24) there are 5 Tui 787 and 2 Maleth 330's making their way from the UK to BGI (for P&O).
It should be the same pattern of operation tomorrow, as the ship turn-around is done over 2 days.
Norse was being used last week in place of MAH.

[Matt2725]

As we have already discussed, the soft product on a charter is wholly down to the charterer, though I think some like to try and palm off poor experiences onto their selected airline operator.

I do recall the same operator and aircraft doing, separately, charters to the Formula 1 in Monaco (decent steaks and champagne), and for a car company staff shuttle between their UK and German locations (nothing, not even a glass of water).

Christ I thought my employer was cheap. But the two company small airliners that take us around the UK/Europe come with free hot/cold drinks and a snack at least.

[Charley B]

Maleth 9H-MFS is at LGW ..arrived from MAN last evening and due to depart soon to BGI on a cruise charter albeit a bit late

[Wycombe]

Maleth 9H-MFS is at LGW ..arrived from MAN last evening and due to depart soon to BGI on a cruise charter albeit a bit late

9H-EFS is also at LGW (arrived from BGI around 1hr30min down earlier this morning).

I'm not at LGW but from what I can see on FR24, it looks like 9H-MFS was pushed back (at around 11am) but has returned to stand!

[rog747]

I find it very strange that Maleth Aero use 9H-xFS ''Fox Trot Sierra'' as the last two letters of the reggies of all or most their Airbus A330 Fleet -
How confusing for Ops and Crews, and the rest....

Dan Air re-regd a Comet G-ARCP as it already had a 1-11 G-AXCP
BA did the same with a T3 and a 777.

[Charley B]

Yes not sure quite what is going on..waiting to see which aircraft will actually depart 🙄

[Charley B]

On the move again ..hopefully will depart this time

[wowzz]

Various posts on FB from future P&O cruisers from LGW, stating that they have received revised flight details, showing that their flights have been switched from Maleth to Norse.

[wowzz]

On the move again ..hopefully will depart this time
Departed 14:06.

[Wycombe]

Various posts on FB from future P&O cruisers from LGW, stating that they have received revised flight details, showing that their flights have been switched from Maleth to Norse.
Hadn't seen this, but an interesting development, and good business for Norse I guess.

Probably won't be cheap to bin Maleth off either, if that's what happening? (but who knows what contract/SLA was in place and if they're in breach?)

Maleth have been flying from LGW and MAN, so unless Norse are going to fly from MAN aswell (seems unlikely) it's probably not a complete replacement.

One suspects that P&O are learning a difficult (and perhaps costly) lesson as a result of all of this and it might be one of the reasons why they may be offering to unbundle fly-cruises going forward.

[Win Win]

Flew back from Barbados today with Maleth, in spite of P&O’s appalling operational management it was a great fight with good cabin crew, food ok, 9H-EFS, in 2-4-2 with business class forward and mid, forward business had IFE

I think there’s some real issues with 9H-MFS and as such capacity problems for Maleth which may be why Norse are on the scene..

[Wycombe]

Flew back from Barbados today with Maleth, in spite of P&O’s appalling operational management it was a great fight with good cabin crew, food ok, 9H-EFS, in 2-4-2 with business class forward and mid, forward business had IFE

I think there’s some real issues with 9H-MFS and as such capacity problems for Maleth which may be why Norse are on the scene..

Good to hear your flight was ok. You may have something there, as according to Maleth's website, EFS seats 295 and MFS 345. Perhaps seats on Norse to make up the shortfall (but this will only be to BGI from LGW)

[PAXboy]

I wonder if part of this problem was the shake out happening, following Covid? That shut down changed a lot of things and some boats were scrapped - perhaps leading airlines to presume that the market would not return for some time.

No surprise that VS did not want to be part of this plan. The Group now have their own cruise line and we may imagine that - wherever possible - pax are on their own airline. Also, now that Delta owns VS, they seem to want all VS craft to be directed to feed into the USA, not feeding another company's boats.

I sit to be corrected.

[wowzz]

I wonder if part of this problem was the shake out happening, following Covid? That shut down changed a lot of things and some boats were scrapped - perhaps leading airlines to presume that the market would not return for some time.

No surprise that VS did not want to be part of this plan. The Group now have their own cruise line and we may imagine that - wherever possible - pax are on their own airline. Also, now that Delta owns VS, they seem to want all VS craft to be directed to feed into the USA, not feeding another company's boats.

I sit to be corrected.
I don't think your premise is correct. Yes, some older, smaller ships (not boats!) were disposed of during the pandemic. The problem lies in the fact that cruise lines were committed to purchasing ships, normally of ever bigger passenger capacity, whilst at the same time, during the pandemic, carriers were reducing capacity.
Thus P&O now find themselves with two ships in the Caribbean, (including the new Arvia with around 5500 pax) but cannot find enough aircraft seats to fill them. Pre-covid, P&O would probably have assumed that BA and VS would pick up the slack, but obviously neither airline now feels the need to operate low yield charter flights.
To a certain extent, P&O have painted themselves into a corner. In order to fill their ships they are offering 14 day fly/cruises to the Caribbean at £1400 pp or less. They now don't have enough profit margin to find alternate charter flights to Maleth, even if any such operator exists.

[Wycombe]

I don't think your premise is correct. Yes, some older, smaller ships (not boats!) were disposed of during the pandemic. The problem lies in the fact that cruise lines were committed to purchasing ships, normally of ever bigger passenger capacity, whilst at the same time, during the pandemic, carriers were reducing capacity.
Thus P&O now find themselves with two ships in the Caribbean, (including the new Arvia with around 5500 pax) but cannot find enough aircraft seats to fill them. Pre-covid, P&O would probably have assumed that BA and VS would pick up the slack, but obviously neither airline now feels the need to operate low yield charter flights.
To a certain extent, P&O have painted themselves into a corner. In order to fill their ships they are offering 14 day fly/cruises to the Caribbean at £1400 pp or less. They now don't have enough profit margin to find alternate charter flights to Maleth, even if any such operator exists.
Nail hit firmly on the head there I think!

We enjoyed our cruise, our flights (with Tui) were professionally crewed and operated on time in both directions. And yes, it was what I think is great value for a carribean holiday where we experienced 9 islands, were mostly well looked after and entertained onboard, and also met some people who proved that the demographic of cruising is (thankfully) changing - lots of first time cruisers, more "younger" people and less "older" people who have cruised for decades and moan about how it's "changed" - the reality is that it needs to, and I think on that score P&O are having some success, although no doubt the attractive pricing is helping.

I did a "behind the scenes" tour on the ship (they used to happen, and stopped during covid times) and it was a real insight into the amazing logistics operation that happens below decks to make these holidays happen.

[rog747]

I wonder if part of this problem was the shake out happening, following Covid? That shut down changed a lot of things and some boats were scrapped - perhaps leading airlines to presume that the market would not return for some time.

No surprise that VS did not want to be part of this plan. The Group now have their own cruise line and we may imagine that - wherever possible - pax are on their own airline. Also, now that Delta owns VS, they seem to want all VS craft to be directed to feed into the USA, not feeding another company's boats.

I sit to be corrected.

Re VS - I read just a day ago that VS are leasing out to THAI 2 x A330-300 later in the year G-VGBR & G-VNYC
Just wondered why they could not nicely have taken on the long-haul charters for P&O, and for others for next winter >?
Just a thought.....

Edit: it is possible that this pair are being withdrawn WFU from Virgin and this may not be a sublease.....

[PAXboy]

Thank You for the clarification, makes sense. I have never followed the shipping the world as I never go on boats.

[wowzz]

Re VS - I read just a day ago that VS are leasing out to THAI 2 x A330-300 later in the year G-VGBR & G-VNYC
Just wondered why they could not nicely have taken on the long-haul charters for P&O, and for others for next winter >?
Just a thought.....

Edit: it is possible that this pair are being withdrawn WFU from Virgin and this may not be a sublease.....
I assume that the aircraft will be leased to Thai for a lengthy period. Totally different to flying just twice a week to the Caribbean for five months as a charter operation.

[SWBKCB]

Edit: it is possible that this pair are being withdrawn WFU from Virgin and this may not be a sublease.....

that's correct. Being returned to lessor then subsequently leased on to Thai by them and not Virgin

[Wycombe]

that's correct. Being returned to lessor then subsequently leased on to Thai by them and not Virgin
Isn't this just VS getting shot of a couple of A333's as more A339's are delivered (4 now in service AFAIK)?

In other news I see that 9H-MFS has positioned to Chateauroux from LGW today, having made it back from BGI yesterday.

[wowzz]

Isn't this just VS getting shot of a couple of A333's as more A339's are delivered (4 now in service AFAIK)?

In other news I see that 9H-MFS has positioned to Chateauroux from LGW today, having made it back from BGI yesterday.
Cheaper to store it there until next Friday, compared to staying at LGW ?

[WHBM]

Virgin Atlantic who have previously flown many Cruise Ship charters Contracts seemingly they did not want this gig.
My hunch is that P&O would only offer less than Virgin Atlantic were prepared to accept.

[davidjpowell]

Flew back from Barbados today with Maleth, in spite of P&O’s appalling operational management it was a great fight with good cabin crew, food ok, 9H-EFS, in 2-4-2 with business class forward and mid, forward business had IFE

I think there’s some real issues with 9H-MFS and as such capacity problems for Maleth which may be why Norse are on the scene..

The temp plane has a reduced seating layout so some passengers moved to Norse and the previous week Virgin out of Heathrow/.

[Wycombe]

It looks like this weekend Wamos are operating LGW-BGI with a Maleth flight no.

It's an A333 (EC-NHM) with 375 seats (9 abreast and no premium, but does have IFE!)

[wowzz]

I see the Maleth flight from LGW is delayed until at least 15:00 today. Passengers not allowed through into departure area currently - not surprisingly a lot of unhappy passengers out there.