Flights landing at SYD after curfew

[neville_nobody]

On the 20th December MAS 141, TGW 20, ETD 454 landed 1.5 hours post curfew after diverting earlier in the evening. Given the amount of political noise that is made over the SYD curfew how is it that dispensations are granted to foreign airlines that have already diverted? Why is it that domestic carriers have to do go-arounds at 23:00 but foreigners can divert and return well after midnight?? If you are going to have a curfew it has to be enforced equally otherwise it just becomes a farce.

[missy]

On the 20th December MAS 141, TGW 20, ETD 454 landed 1.5 hours post curfew after diverting earlier in the evening. Given the amount of political noise that is made over the SYD curfew how is it that dispensations are granted to foreign airlines that have already diverted? Why is it that domestic carriers have to do go-arounds at 23:00 but foreigners can divert and return well after midnight?? If you are going to have a curfew it has to be enforced equally otherwise it just becomes a farce.
NN, there was an earlier thread where it was generally accepted that the management of dispensations was farcical.

Previous thread: Sydney curfew dispensations being challenged (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/655828-sydney-curfew-dispensations-challenged.html)
Curfew dispensations are a process under the Curfew Act. Carriers (domestic or foreign) being sent around at 23:00 is because they didn't arrive in time, didn't apply or didn't obtain a dispensation and generally were on a runway other than 34L.

Curfew dispensations - granted or denied as tabled to parliament.
Noise Airport Curfews Tabled Reports (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/aviation-safety/aircraft-noise/airport-curfews/tabled-reports)
You might have to wait a while, parliament is next scheduled to sit in the 2nd week of February.

[markis10]

On the 20th December MAS 141, TGW 20, ETD 454 landed 1.5 hours post curfew after diverting earlier in the evening. Given the amount of political noise that is made over the SYD curfew how is it that dispensations are granted to foreign airlines that have already diverted? Why is it that domestic carriers have to do go-arounds at 23:00 but foreigners can divert and return well after midnight?? If you are going to have a curfew it has to be enforced equally otherwise it just becomes a farce.

Presumably long haul flights could not have foreseen what caused diversions and thus were under exceptional hardship in regards the 1000 odd pax in the wrong city, whereas short haul could have reasonably foreseen the issue. I note subsequent Sydney departures for the inbound flights were all delayed until after curfew today. QF has a propensity to operate red eye long haul back to Australia in preference to day flights, much to my chagrin.

[MK777]

Did they divert to a port with no immigration facilities available at the time? Possibly then just gas n go..

[C441]

Admittedly many years ago, however we (a Qantas flight from NZ to Melbourne) diverted to Sydney when, after our departure, the Melbourne weather for which we had tempo fuel for thunderstorms, became "TTF Metar* - 200m in fog". From memory we landed on runway 34 in Sydney a bit after midnight and needless to say, got off and went home as we were not allowed to depart until after the curfew ended.

* Actually it was probably before TTF metars.

[Mail-man]

Meanwhile, jq40 dps syd, diverted to Canberra, gassed up and went on to Melbourne. No dispo for them?

[markis10]

Meanwhile, jq40 dps syd, diverted to Canberra, gassed up and went on to Melbourne. No dispo for them?

Doubt they applied for one, 100 odd pax easily put up in Mel and the aircraft has been doing SYD-MEL rotations all day today suggests for JQ best place was Mel.

[neville_nobody]

Curfew dispensations are a process under the Curfew Act. Carriers (domestic or foreign) being sent around at 23:00 is because they didn't arrive in time, didn't apply or didn't obtain a dispensation and generally were on a runway other than 34L.

Sure but arriving in Sydney at 1230am on 16R after already diverting is bridge to far in my opinion. What's the point of having it if that is allowed? If there is severe weather in Sydney then ALL operators should be allowed to complete their flights regardless.

[missy]

Sure but arriving in Sydney at 1230am on 16R after already diverting is bridge to far in my opinion.
Agreed, should make interesting reading when the Noise Airport Curfews Reports are tabled to parliament. If you want more then suggest FOI.

[missy]

Sure but arriving in Sydney at 1230am on 16R after already diverting is bridge to far in my opinion.
Perhaps this scenario was covered in the risk assessment to permanently not staff the Sydney Air Traffic Control Traffic Manager on the night shift.

[ACMS]

What amazed me was the radio exchange I heard from Scoot departing MEL to SYD that night on their way back to SYD after 2300.

ATC—”Scoot *** the duty runway in SYD is 34L, the wind at SYD is 160/ 20 Gusting to 30, the runway is wet, IS RUNWAY 34L SUITABLE?”
SCOOT—”Scoot *** affirmative”
ATC—“ahhhh Roger……..”

What the actual F***

About 10 mins later ATC notified Scoot MH and Etihad they could expect runway 16R for your arrival”

The duty controller probably didn’t want multiple wide bodies piled up on the expressway….

[backspace]

I maybe wrong, but I believe that you will not be refused from landing during the curfew the company will just be fined for it. So, in that case I guess they just look at what costs them more, overnighting passengers, crew out of duty, onward delays with aircraft cycles, etc, or just paying the fine.

[missy]

I maybe wrong, but I believe that you will not be refused from landing during the curfew the company will just be fined for it. So, in that case I guess they just look at what costs them more, overnighting passengers, crew out of duty, onward delays with aircraft cycles, etc, or just paying the fine.
Sydney Curfew Act
7 Prohibition on taking off or landing during curfew periods
(1) An aircraft must not take off from, or land at, Sydney Airport during a curfew period, unless the take off or landing is permitted under Part 3.
(2) The operator of an aircraft commits an offence if:
(a) the operator engages in conduct; and
(b) the operator’s conduct results in a contravention of subsection (1).
Penalty: 1,000 penalty units.
Penalty units are currently $313, however elsewhere I have read that a fine of $550,000 has applied for previous breaches.
GF, JQ and TG have previously been fined for breaches.

[Capt Fathom]

An aircraft must not take off from, or land at, Sydney Airport during a curfew period, unless

Amongst many other reasons…..

They have a dispensation from the minister!

[missy]

They have a dispensation from the minister!
Yep, I understand the Secretary (or their delegate) may issue a dispensation until midnight, after midnight (sorry JJ Cale) the minister issues the approval.

The change of runway to 16R, mmm, that's an interesting one. Perhaps the ATCs on the night or the NCC made an executive decision.