Jetstar Reopening Perth Base

[Hollywood1]

It was announced today that Jetstar will be reopening its Perth base with new routes to Singapore, Phuket and Bangkok.

https://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-set-to-expand-perth-network-including-three-new-international-routes/

How senior will this base be, for Captains and FOs? Any chance for new joiners to bid for an FO slot in PER?

[aussieflyboy]

Didn’t they close a Perth Base 2 years ago? Nice way to treat staff and their families. Grubs.

[ebt]

Didn’t they close a Perth Base 2 years ago? Nice way to treat staff and their families. Grubs.

I get where you're coming from, but it's just business, mate. Funny thing is nobody told Perth Airport about it until the press release was issued, so I hope the WA government is getting some value out of whatever they threw at JQ to secure the base.

[Capn Bloggs]

The princesses are back! :E

[Lookleft]

It was always going to reopen. Where do most of the Jetstar AFAP reps commute from?

[Ratherbefishintoday]

It was announced today that Jetstar will be reopening its Perth base with new routes to Singapore, Phuket and Bangkok.

https://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-set-to-expand-perth-network-including-three-new-international-routes/

How senior will this base be, for Captains and FOs? Any chance for new joiners to bid for an FO slot in PER?
My guess would be, new hire FO's will get the opportunity in PER.

[aussieflyboy]

I get where you're coming from, but it's just business, mate. Funny thing is nobody told Perth Airport about it until the press release was issued, so I hope the WA government is getting some value out of whatever they threw at JQ to secure the base.

Respect can and should still be shown to your staff and their families. This sort of behaviour is why no-one cares anymore.

Treat your staff like a dollar value and they’ll treat you like one back. It might only have a minimal effect on your bonus but a disgruntled workforce has an enormous effect on the business.

[das Uber Soldat]

I called this outcome the instant afap suddenly shifted gears and started pushing that **** agreement hard​​​​​​. Why else?

[cLeArIcE]

I called this outcome the instant afap suddenly shifted gears and started pushing that **** agreement hard​​​​​​. Why else?
I was thinking about that same thing yesterday, reading the company email about the base opening while I had the pleasure of being crammed in QF economy middle seat. Don't you just love this place. :rolleyes:

[StudentInDebt]

It was always going to reopen. Where do most of the Jetstar AFAP reps commute from?Most don’t commute from Perth.

[HOOROO]

Isn’t there a right of return for those who were in the base when it shut down?
The mind boggles at how Jetstar plans to find “at least 60 pilots” to be based in Perth when they can’t even fill all the current pilot positions being advertised.

Direct Entry commands perhaps?

[Ollie Onion]

Considering the talk around Head Office then DEC’s are imminent into the operation. Amazing really considering they have shown little interest in trying to keep the pilots they already have.

[Lookleft]

Most don’t commute from Perth.

​​​​​​​Well the one's that don't must be the strong silent types then because most of the noise was from the WA crowd.

[cLeArIcE]

There are plenty of eligible FOs that could upgrade they Just don't because:
1. They don't want to live in Sydney or
2. They don't want the **** lifestyle, **** rosters and lack of days off on the airbus and much prefer the lifestyle the 787 offers for somewhat similar money.
This ******* company just doesn't get it. You want people to upgrade? You want them to work here instead of other airlines? Pay them properly, treat them with respect, stop using the FRMS as a target and don't make them live where they don't want to live. Its really not that hard.
But, yeah keep sending your stupid discretionary fuel emails idiots.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

There are plenty of eligible FOs that could upgrade they Just don't because:
1. They don't want to live in Sydney or
2. They don't want the **** lifestyle, **** rosters and lack of days off on the airbus and much prefer the lifestyle the 787 offers for somewhat similar money.
This ******* company just doesn't get it. You want people to upgrade? You want them to work here instead of other airlines? Pay them properly, treat them with respect, stop using the FRMS as a target and don't make them live where they don't want to live. Its really not that hard.
But, yeah keep sending your stupid discretionary fuel emails idiots.


Well said. Its not that hard.
It does become hard however, when you lose the support of your workforce. Direct entry commands are a clear example of internal issues. Particularly this far into a companies existance.

MCD

[Lookleft]

They must also be getting concerned with the experience levels of those upgrading to command with effectively only 3 years experience. Sydney commands are going to F/Os who started in 2018 but if you exclude the two years of Covid then its not a long time. There are a lot of very smart F/O's upgrading but with TRA's, runway closures, TIBA, pressure on pilots over CO2 emissions and game changing aircraft being flown to their limits, then the safety buffers in the system are eroding. While the commercial tail wags the operational dog then these problems are only going to get worse.

[Jbrownie]

Europe and SEA have been upgrading 200hr cadets to the left seat after 3-4years for a while now.

[morno]

They must also be getting concerned with the experience levels of those upgrading to command with effectively only 3 years experience. Sydney commands are going to F/Os who started in 2018 but if you exclude the two years of Covid then its not a long time. There are a lot of very smart F/O's upgrading but with TRA's, runway closures, TIBA, pressure on pilots over CO2 emissions and game changing aircraft being flown to their limits, then the safety buffers in the system are eroding. While the commercial tail wags the operational dog then these problems are only going to get worse.

Calm down Neil Armstrong, it’s not that hard. Many other countries in the world have captains with 2,000 or so hours, flying in countries with much harder problems (ice, snow, low vis at every port) than we have here in Australia.

[stevieboy330]

Half of the Network Pilots will be dropping them an email. An easier way to get a half decent EBA.

[aussieflyboy]

Why do management keep saying “we are OPENING a Perth base…” and not “we are RE-OPENING”. I suppose they don’t want to admit their mistakes. Apparently over 75 Perth based Qantas Group Pilots (not just Jetstar) were offered relocation packages (or unemployment) during covid.

[morno]

Why do management keep saying “we are OPENING a Perth base…” and not “we are RE-OPENING”. I suppose they don’t want to admit their mistakes. Apparently over 75 Perth based Qantas Group Pilots (not just Jetstar) were offered relocation packages (or unemployment) during covid.

Errr, my post has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about Flyboy :rolleyes:

[aussieflyboy]

Errr, my post has absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about Flyboy :rolleyes:

Sorry mate - must have hit the quote button

[Lookleft]

Calm down Neil Armstrong, it’s not that hard. Many other countries in the world have captains with 2,000 or so hours, flying in countries with much harder problems (ice, snow, low vis at every port) than we have here in Australia.


Well lets just see shall we. Australia's aviation infrastructure is rapidly becoming third rate (not third world theirs is better) whereas in Europe ILS to ILS and plenty of suitable airports.

[Big Silver Spoon]

Oh yes. Aviation in Asia and parts of Europe are shining beacons of light for how to crew and operate aeroplanes.

[morno]

Oh yes. Aviation in Asia and parts of Europe are shining beacons of light for how to crew and operate aeroplanes.

So why does a captain in Australia suddenly need years of experience and several thousand hours? Does the sky work differently down here?

I can tell you the only reason why traditionally Captains here have high amounts of experience, and it’s purely supply and demand, and seniority.

It’s not a hard job geniuses, stop pretending it is. The sky isn’t going to suddenly fall in because some guys who have only worked at Jetstar for 5 years are getting a command. :rolleyes:

[Mr Mossberg]

morno, how the **** did you get in to Qantas?? Wasn't there something in the aptitude test that said something about the necessity for 20 years of right seat ops?

[CaptCloudbuster]

It’s not that hard until it is.
Experience should teach us all that.

[cessnapete]

Much longer than 3/4 years!! BOAC/BA were recruiting 250 hour pilots from training schools onto 737/A320/757 for many years, and continue to do so.
Quite a few Concorde Captains started as 200 hour co pilots out of the Hamble College.

[dr dre]

Oh yes. Aviation in Asia and parts of Europe are shining beacons of light for how to crew and operate aeroplanes.

Yeah they are. I’d say the EU is a much harder environment than Australia. It isn’t just ILS to ILS. A lot of challenging approaches and ports (show me Australian airports that have risks like Skiathos or Madeira). A real winter with ice and snow to contend with, dozens of nations and cultures to work with and interact with with most not having English as a first language. And more congestion in the skies.

But airlines, both LCCs like Easyjet and Ryanair or legacies like BA or LH do it all with 200hr F/Os in the right seat of 180 seat jets, and then some carriers command after 4/5 years.

And we act as if this is something new to Australia, but the first Cadetships were run in this country in the early 60s. I’d guess that a quarter to a third of all Australian airline pilots today are products of some type of cadet or academy scheme.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

It’s funny that the proponents of cadet schemes always retreat to the ‘everyone else does it and they don’t have safety issues’ argument when what they are beautifully describing is a normalisation of deviance. I’m not saying cadets are dangerous any more than I’m saying they’re not but it doesn’t make sense to defend a scheme that exists solely to undercut pilot T&C’s and to fill a supply problem of the airlines creation. If the career was so great they would have no problem filling spots.

It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.

[Ollie Onion]

It’s funny that the proponents of cadet schemes always retreat to the ‘everyone else does it and they don’t have safety issues’ argument when what they are beautifully describing is a normalisation of deviance. I’m not saying cadets are dangerous any more than I’m saying they’re not but it doesn’t make sense to defend a scheme that exists solely to undercut pilot T&C’s and to fill a supply problem of the airlines creation. If the career was so great they would have no problem filling spots.

It’s good to see the PER base reopening, it’s just a shame that QF chose to run such an amateurishly short term game, sure they can claim it’s ’just business’ but the damage they did to families cannot be ignored. They really need to stop pretending to give a fvck about the mental health of their employees because it’s clear they don’t.

exactly, that is what drives me mad, Qantas speaks about mental health etc but we’re quite happen to destroy lives during Covid and in a very blunt way. I got a ‘sign the variation to this contract by 0900 or be made redundant’ and that was after asking for 24 hours to look it over, not to mention the threat of closing our airline every time we dare to ask for an improvement in conditions and of course the multiple families effected by unnecessary base closures etc. then you get the nice, ‘don’t forget to look after your mental health’ emails…… GASLIGHTING at its finest.

[megan]

Does the sky work differently down here?It must do, who else has regulations that are "Strict Liability" with an attached penalty of X points at $110 per point?

[DynamicStall]

It must do, who else has regulations that are "Strict Liability" with an attached penalty of X points at $110 per point?

$192.31

[Ollie Onion]

Always makes me laugh when people say flying in Europe is easy compared to Australia. Flying in Europe has real CAT111 Opes, Real Contaminated Runways, Metric Airspace in Russia, highly technical approaches such as Innesbruck, Steep approaches into short runways etc and of course it is not all ILS’s. What makes OZ so complicated is all self inflicted such as terrible airspace design, a set of rules developed in isolation to the rest of the world and terrible ATC and Infrastructure. Daily flying in Europe is infinitely more complicated than OZ.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Not called the Galápagos of aviation for nothing.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Always makes me laugh when people say flying in Europe is easy compared to Australia. Flying in Europe has real CAT111 Opes, Real Contaminated Runways, Metric Airspace in Russia, highly technical approaches such as Innesbruck, Steep approaches into short runways etc and of course it is not all ILS’s. What makes OZ so complicated is all self inflicted such as terrible airspace design, a set of rules developed in isolation to the rest of the world and terrible ATC and Infrastructure. Daily flying in Europe is infinitely more complicated than OZ.

All this talk about here is harder than there is just rubbish.

I have flown in Aus / Europe / Africa and it’s all the bloody same - some is complex, some is painful, none of it is “hard”.

You’re a pilot - deal with it FFS. Stop the size competition.

Cadets are no more dangerous than non cadets - depends entirely on the individual. Not all hours are equal. Get over yourselves.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Which narrative is correct?

Cadet FO’s in Pilbara Ops normal, no additional risk backed by worldwide precedent

or

CASA's Pilbara Region Airspace Review draft document released for industry comment (https://consultation.casa.gov.au/stakeholder-engagement-group/airspace-review-pilbara-region/supporting_documents/Draft%20Pilbara%20Region%20Airspace%20Review%20August%202023 .pdf) hasn't yet recognised the issues raised by all operators and failed to link the lack of Communications, Navigation and Surveillance infrastructure with the potential for reduced safety margins.

[morno]

All this talk about here is harder than there is just rubbish.

I have flown in Aus / Europe / Africa and it’s all the bloody same - some is complex, some is painful, none of it is “hard”.

You’re a pilot - deal with it FFS. Stop the size competition.

Cadets are no more dangerous than non cadets - depends entirely on the individual. Not all hours are equal. Get over yourselves.

What he said, sums it up perfectly!

[Hollywood1]

At the end of the day, we're all trained to standards set by the regulator and the company and we all have to reach and maintain those standards whether we're cadets or 10,000 plus jet pilots. I've flown in the sim with both and when it comes to flying a raw data ILS in the sim, there is very little difference between the two.

[Lookleft]

I have flown with both on line operations, in gusty crosswind conditions where you can certainly tell the difference. In fact one F/O who had come through the cadet program told me that they didn't consider that they could land at Ballina with a 15 kt crosswind from the LHS! Even a sim tech can fly a well flown raw data ILS in the simulator. There was another well known F/O whose mantra was "In my experience, experience doesn't count" The irony was they failed their command upgrade and left the company.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Wow, experience doesn’t count?

Why then the push for diversity of experience in the Flight Deck?

[cLeArIcE]

Let's be honest, for the most part Australia is a pretty easy place to operate. Yes you can get difficulties like anywhere, (storms, **** infrastructure, long distance to alternates, TIBA or the many CTAFs we love to fly jets into etc). Whilst experience is a huge factor (you can't know everything) I find it's the personality of the person that plays the biggest role. A good training system (I think JQ does a very good job with this) and the right attitude, someone can be a perfectly safe and capable 320 captain after a 4 years in the right seat.
The only thing I've personally noticed is that SOME of the ex cadets can be a little less inclined to say no to the company about MELs and fuel compared to the ones that did GA, regionals etc.
But 90% it's the person.

[airdualbleedfault]

It must do, who else has regulations that are "Strict Liability" with an attached penalty of X points at $110 per point?
Umm, the Chinese, for 1

[Tom/PER]

Is it known yet when the PER base will re-open in 2024?

As a side note, I see JQ Asia/3K have just put a 12yr old ex Scoot/Tiger A320 into service, with another from the same source joining the fleet. There’s whispers that some VH registered ones will soon have a Singaporean rego slapped on them.

Why is it QF group always seem to dredge the bottom of the barrel when making acquisitions? The incoming NWK A319’s are ex Spirit and are 18+ years old, although referred to a ‘midlife’. The next 3 AAE A321P2F’s are ex BA Med x 2 and ex Dragonair. The Dragonair one is msn 1695 and is 21yrs old!

[StudentInDebt]

Why is it QF group always seem to dredge the bottom of the barrel when making acquisitions? The incoming NWK A319’s are ex Spirit and are 18+ years old, although referred to a ‘midlife’. The next 3 AAE A321P2F’s are ex BA Med x 2 and ex Dragonair. The Dragonair one is msn 1695 and is 21yrs old!Apart from all the brand new A321, A220 and 787 aircraft? The issue they have is that the demand for capacity is outpacing their ability to acquire new aircraft. Consequently if they want additional airframes they have take what’s available on the market right now. Inevitably there is a balance between paying premium lease rates for newer aircraft (of which there are fewer available) against the more readily available, much cheaper, supply in storage.
With the freighters, cargo is returning to its pre-Covid yields, this type of flying has always traditionally been served by older airframes as they are cheaper to acquire. The conversion market uses aircraft that have served a life in airline service and they will be high-hour, high-cycle airframes.

The new Perth services are due to start in August, it would make sense for that to coincide with the new basing arrangements.

[AviatoR21]

How do you expect them to acquire new aircraft when the CEO walks away with all the money….

[Ollie Onion]

Because the genius’ in head office order dozens of options for brand new aircraft, then in order for short term book gains cancel the whole lot. Then two years later desperate for aircraft reorder the same aircraft for a couple of billion more than the options were but can’t get them for years due to going to the end of the cue. Net result is they have to trawl the second hand market for anything that flies.

[ebt]

Because the genius’ in head office order dozens of options for brand new aircraft, then in order for short term book gains cancel the whole lot. Then two years later desperate for aircraft reorder the same aircraft for a couple of billion more than the options were but can’t get them for years due to going to the end of the cue. Net result is they have to trawl the second hand market for anything that flies.

And at the moment it is a seller's market for second hand A320ceos, given hundreds of GTF-powered neos will be grounded at any one time over the next couple of years. Lease rates and values are moving up on a monthly basis, and all that's on the market at the moment is some of the older stuff. Qantas can afford to outbid others, but in this market beggars can't be choosers.

I wonder how long it will be now before Qantas goes to the state government seeking funds to build an MRO facility for the A320s, only to shut it down a few years later when they realise (again) they can just send them up to Seletar cheaper?

[cLeArIcE]

https://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-reveals-new-flying-with-pride-livery/

So glad we are spending time and money on this rather than running on time, not cancelling flights and reducing our enormously high sick rate by rostering people what they want and not working them to the bone. :ugh:

[The The]

https://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-reveals-new-flying-with-pride-livery/

So glad we are spending time and money on this rather than running on time, not cancelling flights and reducing our enormously high sick rate by rostering people what they want and not working them to the bone. :ugh:

The Joyce ethos is so entrenched in management it will never change whilst any of the his minions are left in the group. Window dressing and talk fests are all that's happened since the changing of the guard, no major strategic initiatives. Next big news will be another share buy back to to pump the stagnant share price, it's not like the money could be used elsewhere.

[Hollywood1]

The Joyce ethos is so entrenched in management it will never change whilst any of the his minions are left in the group. Window dressing and talk fests are all that's happened since the changing of the guard, no major strategic initiatives. Next big news will be another share buy back to to pump the stagnant share price, it's not like the money could be used elsewhere.

I would think the reopening of the Perth base with 4 NEOs based there and the opening of new routes from PER would be considered as a major strategic initiative.

[The The]

I would think the reopening of the Perth base with 4 NEOs based there and the opening of new routes from PER would be considered as a major strategic initiative.

Precisely. Lets pour more into the worst performing segment of the group (per 2023 annual report operating margins). That's not a new strategy. Can't operate to CGK or JNB with mainline from Perth but no issue with international ex Perth for Jetstar. Go to Qantas.com and will see Jetstar flights listed as options, not the same on jetstar.com. Why do Jetstar have so many flights to same destinations as Qantas within 20mins or so. Gotta keep propping it up somehow. Can't wait to see the jetstar PER-SIN schedule, should be good for taking passengers off the QF71/72.