Lies, damned lies, and medical renewals

[BoeingDriver99]

Hi all,

With the recent events in the US concerning mental health in pilots I thought I’d create a four question survey to gather a rough show of hands about pilots’ behaviours and attitudes towards the Class 1 renewal.

Four questions; takes 20 seconds:

Survey (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TF5KMNL)


To PPRuNe Moderators;

I’m posting this in R&N because it’s the front page so will get the most attention and I believe that pilots’ mental health is currently a “News” item. Please leave it here for a few hours/days!

Thanks!

BD

Edit to add: I will post results here asap.

[BoeingDriver99]

17 responses in about an hour…. Seems like people are keen to have a say :ok:

[BoeingDriver99]

So approximately 24 hours later we have 122 responses which really surprised me. About 200 would be actually quite useful from a statistical point of view.

If you haven’t done the survey yet then it would be better to do it before reading the current results as they may skew your own response.

Question 1: Have you ever been dishonest in any way during a Class 1 medical renewal/initial?

Yes: 39%
No: 61%

Question 2: Have you ever withheld mental health problems from your AME?

Yes: 24%
No: 76%

Question 3: Have you ever sought professional help for mental health problems? E.g. counselling, medication

Yes: 26%
No: 74%

Question 4: If mental health issues remained between you & your GP/personal physician; would you be more willing to take steps to resolve the issues?

Yes: 76%
No: 24%

to the nearest whole number

[OvertHawk]

Whilst I think this is an interesting and relevant survey I think that it’s perhaps naive to have it on a public forum.

we know that journalists scan Pprune.

how long before we see a “40% of pilots admit to lying about their mental health” story?

[BoeingDriver99]

170 responses so far

Question 1: Have you ever been dishonest in any way during a Class 1 medical renewal/initial?

Yes: 41%

No: 59%

Question 2: Have you ever withheld mental health problems from your AME?

Yes: 25%

No: 75%

Question 3: Have you ever sought professional help for mental health problems? E.g. counselling, medication

Yes: 24%

No: 76%

Question 4: If mental health issues remained between you & your GP/personal physician; would you be more willing to take steps to resolve the issues?

Yes: 79%

No: 21%

*rounded to the nearest whole number

[RatherBeFlying]

While your intention may be good, confidentiality measures, if any, are not disclosed.

The FAA sweeps military disability pension rolls and driver records to cross match with pilot medicals and comes down very hard on any omissions.

[Jhieminga]

170 responses so far
Question 4: If mental health issues remained between you & your GP/personal physician; would you be more willing to take steps to resolve the issues?

Yes: 79%

No: 21%

Perhaps it's just me, but this question is a bit skewed in my view. I have never had to deal with mental health issues (fortunately) and am more than willing to take steps to resolve any issues if they should turn up. So strictly speaking I would have to select 'no' here as this privacy issue would not make me 'more willing'. I am already willing to do this. As you did not define the baseline, the 'more' aspect is ambiguous. It implies that there is something wrong (confidentiality is not assured) and that this needs to change, leading to a lot of 'yes' answers. I selected 'yes' in the end, as I feel that any lack of confidentiality in this department should be adressed, but we should already be able to rely on this.

The question is whether the relationship between GP and patient is seen the same way as the relationship between AME and pilot. I think it should be, and you should tell them the same things, they should handle confidentiality the same way, etcetera. The problem is of course that the outcome is different. One of the two can get you treatment, the other can lose you your medical. I think that is what is reflected in the answers to the first question, and that is a worrying issue.

[BoeingDriver99]

All criticisms are valid as this was a spur of the moment decision to create a very quick and simple survey in light of recent events. With all the criticisms in mind; if you even assume the percentages are way off, it still leaves a relatively massive percentage of pilots who are having issues.

A quick google reveals rough numbers of around 70,000 - 100,000 commercial pilots working in the US. Same rough numbers go for Europe. If the issues raised above only affect 10% of pilots then we are talking 7,000 - 10,000 pilots in the US and the same goes for Europe.

I would contend that the Class 1 Medical is not applicable in any way to mental health. At best it’s a moderately effective physical check on the initial issue and a very weak check on renewal each year. And the reality is that standards for renewal vary wildly with different jurisdictions. You can be fit to fly in one state and operate into another state where you would have your licence revoked. In the most basic case - retirement age varies even within Europe.

[BoeingDriver99]

This is an academic; therefore peer reviewed and validated article that covers depression and suicide ideation in airline pilots in much greater detail and clarity:

Article (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27974043/)

”This study found 12.6% airline pilots meeting depression threshold and 4.1% pilots reporting having suicidal thoughts.”

However, the point of my back of an envelope survey was to get more at the point that pilots are suffering in silence and not enough has been done as the quick & dirty survey indicates.

[moss_cohen]

Hi, I'm a producer with CNN. I'm looking to get in contact with BoeingDriver99. I'm working on a story, and would be interested in having a conversation with that user totally on background to aid in my reporting. BoeingDriver99 can reach me at [email protected]

[RatherBeFlying]

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/pilot-mental-health-treatment-changes-urged/?MailingID=1559

Hello Moss, have a look at the preceeding URL and the comments. One poster remarked that being open with the FAA can cost you tens of thousands of dollars along with many months of being suspended from flying.

Aviation medical authorities often overreact on reports of benign and well controlled medical conditions and delay medical renewals and issuances for the better part of a year. The process is totally opaque.

Until aviation medical authorities begin to act in a timely, transparent manner and provide well reasoned explanations, pilots will perforce keep their cards close to their vest.

[OvertHawk]

Hi, I'm a producer with CNN. I'm looking to get in contact with BoeingDriver99. I'm working on a story, and would be interested in having a conversation with that user totally on background to aid in my reporting. BoeingDriver99 can reach me at [email protected]

If only someone had seen that coming!!! :rolleyes:

[WillowRun 6-3]

FAA to Appoint Rulemaking Committee to Examine Pilot Mental Health(From FAA website, verbatim)
Thursday, November 9, 2023
WASHINGTON — The Federal Aviation Administration will establish a Pilot Mental Health Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) to provide recommendations on breaking down the barriers that prevent pilots from reporting mental health issues to the agency.

“Mental health care has made great strides in recent years, and we want to make sure the FAA is considering those advances when we evaluate the health of pilots,” said FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker.

Pilots must report certain mental health conditions to their aviation medical examiners, who are trained to determine the pilot’s fitness to fly.

The ARC will include medical experts and aviation and labor representatives. The FAA will finalize the charter for the rulemaking committee and appoint the panel of experts in the coming weeks. It will build on previous work the FAA has done to prioritize pilot mental health, including:

Increasing mental health training for medical examiners
Supporting industry-wide research and clinical studies on pilot mental health
Hiring additional mental health professionals to expand in-house expertise and to decrease wait times for return-to-fly decisions
Completed clinical research and amended policy to decrease the frequency of cognitive testing in pilots using antidepressant medications
Increasing outreach to pilot groups to educate them on the resources available

In addition, the FAA will work with the ARC to address open recommendations from the July 2023 DOT Office of Inspector General report on Pilot Mental Health Challenges (https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/FAA%20Pilot%20Mental%20Health%20Final%20Report_07.12.2023.pd f), which found that the agency has “comprehensive procedures to evaluate pilots’ psychological health.”

An ARC provides information, advice and recommendations to the FAA.

View videos and listen to an FAA podcast (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5vHkqHi51DRa7Y1qjzhNnHhPZp_eJ_NJ) about pilot mental health featuring Dr. Susan Northrup, the FAA's Federal Air Surgeon.

View our fact sheet on pilot mental health oversight (https://www.faa.gov/pilot-mental-fitness).

[hans brinker]

FAA to Appoint Rulemaking Committee to Examine Pilot Mental Health
Not surprised to see this happening. Guess I am surprised to see the feds doing anything this fast.

[WillowRun 6-3]

Surprising as to timing, on first impression.
But with the FAA finally getting a Senate-confirmed Administrator in office, and with the legislation to reauthorize the FAA still unfinished, it isn't quite as surprising. The questions around aviator mental health do hold some relevance to issues in the reauthorization bill, including means to address the pilot shortage (the 1500-hour rule, and mandatory retirement age).

So also not surprising that the Aviation Subcommittee of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee today held a hearing - with a pretty all-star list of witnesses - on recent instances of "close calls" (which is tied also to pending reauthorization, and shortage of controllers). Worth noting that the Subcommittee is chaired by former U.S. Army Aviator Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D. - Illinois). Here's the description of the hearing from the Committee webpage (which also has a link to a recording of the hearing).
"U.S. Senator Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.), Chair of the Subcommittee on Aviation Safety, Operations and Innovation, will convene a subcommittee hearing titled “Addressing Close Calls to Improve Aviation Safety” on Thursday, November 9, 2023, at 10:00 AM EST. This hearing will examine serious close calls across the National Airspace System and related efforts to improve the U.S. aviation system's safety culture, processes and technologies.

Witnesses:

Jennifer Homendy, Chair, National Transportation Safety Board
Tim Arel, Chief Operating Officer, Federal Aviation Administration Air Traffic Organization
Rich Santa, President, National Air Traffic Controller Association
Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots Association
Randy Babbitt, Principal Partner, Babbitt & Associates, LLC"

[BoeingDriver99]

240 responses

Question 1: Have you ever been dishonest in any way during a Class 1 medical renewal/initial?

Yes: 43%
No: 57%

Question 2: Have you ever withheld mental health problems from your AME?

Yes: 26%
No: 74%

Question 3: Have you ever sought professional help for mental health problems? E.g. counselling, medication

Yes: 25%
No: 75%

Question 4: If mental health issues remained between you & your GP/personal physician; would you be more willing to take steps to resolve the issues?

Yes: 81%
No: 19%

*rounded to the nearest whole number

[WillowRun 6-3]

In 2015 FAA established a panel similar to the one recently announced. The Recommendation Report of the Pilot Fitness ARC was provided to FAA dated November 30, 2015. (ARC, advisory and Rulemaking Committee).

From the FAA's website:
Pilot Fitness ARC Report.11302015.pdf (https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/committees/documents/media/Pilot%20Fitness%20ARC%20Report.11302015.pdf) (PDF, 1.4 MB)