September & October Rostering

[ZootBoot]

According to the rumour mill, it would appear that the Sept to Oct period is where the training resources, crew resources and aircraft resources are finally starting to stretch to their limits. The 'rebuild and recover' has finally started to hit up against those lack of required resources. Talking with friends, based on the current roster, we are so busy that almost none of us could legally work a G day - even if they called and offered us the extra pennies.

It would definitely be a crying shame if the sickness rates increased this month. A damn shame.

[controlledrest]

Everything is going to plan. According to Jack Bastard, GMA, all flights are crewed.

And we are rebuilding, even though total pilot numbers are virtually unchanged.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Everything is going to plan. According to Jack Bastard, GMA, all flights are crewed.

And we are rebuilding, even though total pilot numbers are virtually unchanged.

They have the right amount of pilots, just too many aircrafts!

[Progress Wanchai]

According to the rumour mill, it would appear that the Sept to Oct period is where the training resources, crew resources and aircraft resources are finally starting to stretch to their limits. The 'rebuild and recover' has finally started to hit up against those lack of required resources. Talking with friends, based on the current roster, we are so busy that almost none of us could legally work a G day - even if they called and offered us the extra pennies.

It would definitely be a crying shame if the sickness rates increased this month. A damn shame.

A crying shame for who?

Normally when you want something you ask for it. So what are you asking for? A 5% rise? 10%? COS08? Housing or provident fund back? A rostering agreement? Bases? What do you want exactly?

Crying and table thumping is standard cx pilot behaviour. Being mature enough to have a well defined objective and strategy to get there is not.

Get together and decide what it is the pilot body wants.
Present it to management.
If the company is belligerent then decide upon an organized and published industrial campaign until a suitable compromise can be met.

Alternatively, continue crying.

[Babyjet_dododo]

A crying shame for who?

Normally when you want something you ask for it. So what are you asking for? A 5% rise? 10%? COS08? Housing or provident fund back? A rostering agreement? Bases? What do you want exactly?

Crying and table thumping is standard cx pilot behaviour. Being mature enough to have a well defined objective and strategy to get there is not.

Get together and decide what it is the pilot body wants.
Present it to management.
If the company is belligerent then decide upon an organized and published industrial campaign until a suitable compromise can be met.

Alternatively, continue crying.

Okay, and you think management will listen? The pilot body makes noise, yet management is deaf!

You want to float the idea of industrial action? GH’s statement to the board when there were rumours swirling about it was: “It does not bother us, we have the law on our side.” They would rather sack pilots and get a company to fly their routes than give in to pilot body demands.

The best we can do is to show them the package is not acceptable and walk. The problem with that is, the survey from what I heard focuses too much on the metrics the company selects and nothing on anything that is of great concern.

[fire wall]

Okay, and you think management will listen? The pilot body makes noise, yet management is deaf!

You want to float the idea of industrial action? GH’s statement to the board when there were rumours swirling about it was: “It does not bother us, we have the law on our side.” They would rather sack pilots and get a company to fly their routes than give in to pilot body demands.

The best we can do is to show them the package is not acceptable and walk. The problem with that is, the survey from what I heard focuses too much on the metrics the company selects and nothing on anything that is of great concern.

If you had a backbone you would have walked already.
You ain’t walking.

[Babyjet_dododo]

If you had a backbone you would have walked already.
You ain’t walking.

How do you know I haven’t walked already?

[Progress Wanchai]

I ask again a simple question.

What do you want before you cancel your supposed sick out campaign?

The peculiar thing about cx pilots is they can’t define what they want other than it’s something more than they’ve currently got. It’s the industrial campaign of a two year old spoiled brat.

[cygnet78]

Just leave....many waiting to come. hahaha

[Climbpowder]

“Life pushes all of us around. Some people give up and others fight. A few learn the lesson and move on. They welcome life pushing them around. To these few people, it means they need and want to learn something. They
learn and move on. Most quit, and a few like you fight.”

Rich dad stood and shut the creaky old wooden window that needed repair. “If you learn this lesson, you will grow into a wise, wealthy, and happy young man. If you don’t, you will spend your life blaming a job, low pay,
or your boss for your problems. You’ll live life always hoping for that big break that will solve all your money problems.”

Extract from "Rich Dad Poor Dad" (Robert Kiyosaki)

[Flyboysg]

Welcome to how asian airlines work in general. Profits over employee welfare. Enjoy!

[VforVENDETTA]

What they want is and has always been very clear. The same compensation package it took to entice them to come to hk and work for cx in the first place.

Who would ever be so delusional to think if you take away the things which were necessary to get people to come work for cathay in the first place are cut in half, they would stay. Cathay has been banging its head against the wall for a ridiculously long time to stand operations back up and still now it's stuck at 40% and stalling.

Of course giving a 100% pay & benefits rise which is putting it back to the previous level is admission of a major mistake. That is not an option for a colonial outfit like cathay. Instead, letting the ship sink is preferred by this lot.

it's also delusional for any pilot to think cathay is ever going to be an airline worth workimg for, at any price. Since Nov 2020 cathay is and forever will be a non-credible employer to work for. No employment contract. No expectation of anything from month to month.

Complaining and asking for more is futile. But for those left which are the ones with no other options, there's no other choice than to stay and complain. That's why they're still there and complaining. Even if restored to COS08 tomorrow, they'll still leave as soon as an option appears. Hell they leaving for Emirates left and right as we speak. That's saying a lot about how low cathay is.

[VforVENDETTA]

Just leave....many waiting to come. hahaha
Yes many waiting to come. But unfortunately only 20% of the many who want to come are passing the sim ride. You see, many cannot fly. They are leaving and many who cannot fly still cannot come. Hahaha

[VforVENDETTA]

I ask again a simple question.

What do you want before you cancel your supposed sick out campaign?

The peculiar thing about cx pilots is they can’t define what they want other than it’s something more than they’ve currently got. It’s the industrial campaign of a two year old spoiled brat.

What they want is what they had which is what it took to bring them to hong kong and cathay in the first place. You acting dumb about facts doesn't change the facts. What caused them to be so unhappy like this? Restoring it would be a good guess. Otherwise, get used to this toxic environment and don't keep complaining about it. It's not changing. Who's the complainer now?

They have to be forever as inefficient as they possibly can in every aspect of the job as long as they’re still there, or else they would be chumps for doing the same job for half the money in twice the toxic work environment.

You're not a chump, are you? Nevermind, don't answer that.

Call it whatever you like, sick-out, slow-down, etc. It's here to stay. Its the natural by-product of what cathay has done and will continueto do. If you don't like working in this negative and toxic environment, just leave. Otherwise get used to it and stop complaining.

[lucille]

Jeez…

No 65ft Swan. No two (his and hers) Bentleys in the garage.No pied-a-terre in Kensington, No 20 acre country seat in Somerset?

Quelle Horreur! How could I exist on such miserable conditions. Do they not know who I am?

Clue: That (Skygod) A Scale puppy has long been euthanised. Welcome to the hard scrabble worldworld.

[rhoshamboe]

I'm gobsmacked that you seem happy about it. What sort of idiot delights in working harder than they used to for less?

[SOPS]

Jeez…

No 65ft Swan. No two (his and hers) Bentleys in the garage.No pied-a-terre in Kensington, No 20 acre country seat in Somerset?

Quelle Horreur! How could I exist on such miserable conditions. Do they not know who I am?

Clue: That (Skygod) A Scale puppy has long been euthanised. Welcome to the hard scrabble worldworld.
I can’t believe you seem happy about it.

[VforVENDETTA]

Jeez…

No 65ft Swan. No two (his and hers) Bentleys in the garage.No pied-a-terre in Kensington, No 20 acre country seat in Somerset?

Quelle Horreur! How could I exist on such miserable conditions. Do they not know who I am?

Clue: That (Skygod) A Scale puppy has long been euthanised. Welcome to the hard scrabble worldworld.
Nobody mentioned A scale. Its the B scale contract that was canceled and it's terms cut in half.

They were still coming for B scale terms and happily staying. No shortage of qualified candidates existed then. No B scaler owened Bentley or a swan for that matter or property in somerset.

Your whole blabber is irrelevant. Stick to the subject.

[Progress Wanchai]

VforVENDETTA,

“What they want is and has always been very clear. The same compensation package it took to entice them to hk and work for cx in the first place.”

Hahahaha.
What rock have you been living under for the last decade??

In 2016 in exchange for calling off industrial action in the form of CC/TB the pilots were offered what enticed them to HK in the first place (COS08) plus 7% plus improved HKPA. Voted down.
in 2018 after the company self destructed in 2017 the pilots were offered COS08 plus 1% initially then further pay rises linked to inflation plus improvements to HKPA and rostering. Voted down.

So recent history suggests COS08 plus more is not enough. It needs to be COS08 plus more plus more. And that was five years ago. Since then the cost of living is up 20 to 30%. So if the pilots are consistent in what they think is enough to live in HK and work for CX whilst maintaining a reasonable standard of living they’ll have to be offered COS08 plus more plus more plus 20 to 30%.
It’s quite apparent the “compensation package it took to entice them to hk” is considered by the majority to be grossly inadequate.

So I ask ask again. What offer would it take to avert either formal or informal industrial action? Or is this supposed sickness just more chest beating and table thumping from the rabble raisers on the WhatsApp groups who can’t actually be bothered doing the hard yards of organising a coordinated campaign with a clear objective?

[main_dog]

No 65ft Swan. No two (his and hers) Bentleys in the garage.No pied-a-terre in Kensington, No 20 acre country seat in Somerset?

All I want is my B scale contract back, the one I signed in good faith with my employer all those years ago. A contract is an agreement between two parties, I have always abided by my side of it.

If at the first opportunity the employer unilaterally pulls out and imposes a far less valuable policy document instead, trust is irreparably broken.

Don’t try to frame this as some Spitfire-owning primadonna hissy-fit, we are hard-working professionals who agreed to uproot their families and come make their lives in HK, with the contractual certainty of their spouses and children being taken care of with decent medical insurance, housing assistance and schooling (like most expats in HK).

No Bentleys to be seen here.

[Frank W. Abagnale]

All I want is my B scale contract back, the one I signed in good faith with my employer all those years ago. A contract is an agreement between two parties, I have always abided by my side of it.

If at the first opportunity the employer unilaterally pulls out and imposes a far less valuable policy document instead, trust is irreparably broken.

Don’t try to frame this as some Spitfire-owning primadonna hissy-fit, we are hard-working professionals who agreed to uproot their families and come make their lives in HK, with the contractual certainty of their spouses and children being taken care of with decent medical insurance, housing assistance and schooling (like most expats in HK).

No Bentleys to be seen here.

B-Scale back ????

You could consider yourself lucky if you kept the present COS18 conditions.
The advent of (unemployed) Mainlanders will lead to more and more pressure to salaries in Cathay over time and within the next 10 years your jobs might be filled by Mainland Chinese.

[main_dog]

Realistically speaking, you’re probably correct. But if the question is, “what do you want?”, then that is my answer. “What I signed for”.

Ideally without being accused of being some histrionic primadonna. Plenty of profit-making carriers out there that have gone back to pre-covid contractual remuneration packages or better, LH, AF, any North American carrier, even EK. Not us.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

The dead departure concourse as of 7pm tells you everything.

I spent a decade dodging crowds at all times of day and night in HKIA. Now everything is shut at 7 and it’s early Covid in terms of foot traffic. The money left on the table by forcing the exodus must be completely dwarfing the wage savings.

Those that have left (myself included) are in a far better place both short and long term, than the miserable, dirty, ****hole that we left.

I had almost forgotten how unfriendly the locals are. It all came flooding back though.

What would it take for me to consider a return - or to answer the multiple pleading emails? Nothing that CX or HK can provide, and the managers can rot in the knowledge that even the ones that masquerade as ‘the good guys’ are contemptible and complicit, and hated by all they survey.

Are the CPs still going around fleet forums telling everyone that CX is better than the airlines taking your colleagues in with open arms? Hahahaha. Good one.

[Progress Wanchai]

All I want is my B scale contract back, the one I signed in good faith with my employer all those years ago. A contract is an agreement between two parties, I have always abided by my side of it.

If at the first opportunity the employer unilaterally pulls out and imposes a far less valuable policy document instead, trust is irreparably broken.

Don’t try to frame this as some Spitfire-owning primadonna hissy-fit, we are hard-working professionals who agreed to uproot their families and come make their lives in HK, with the contractual certainty of their spouses and children being taken care of with decent medical insurance, housing assistance and schooling (like most expats in HK).

No Bentleys to be seen here.

Seriously?
You signed a contract with a company that..

Used sign or be fired against the A scalers in 1999.
Illegally sacked 49 of your colleagues in 2001.
Ripped up a rostering agreement in 2015.
Refused to comply with the contractual agreement of the Adelaide instructors.
Has a 30 year history of unilaterally altering the terms of engineering, cabin crew and ground crew.

But trust wasn’t irreparably broken until they eventually came for you in 2020?

All you want is what you signed up for? Then why did you enter industrial action and then twice vote down improvements on what you signed up for saying the improvements were grossly inadequate? In 2018 it was an 80% NO vote. That’s a rather clear message about what you think is a suitable package to live in HK.

Have management held your head so far under water that you’d now vote YES if TA18 was back on the table? Or even less, COS08 with no improvements?
Or as you like to say, what you signed up for.

[VforVENDETTA]

B-Scale back ????

You could consider yourself lucky if you kept the present COS18 conditions.
The advent of (unemployed) Mainlanders will lead to more and more pressure to salaries in Cathay over time and within the next 10 years your jobs might be filled by Mainland Chinese.
That very well may be. But until then, toxic environment and lots of complaints will keep getting worse. I actually want to laugh my a$$ off seeing how cathay does with mainlander pilots.

[Cavallier]

I think anyone here who thinks or believes that COS18 is the end of the cutting is delusional. Just think, there is a very early draft copy on some managers desk of COS26 or 28 or 29 as we speak. Question is when will people say ‘enough is enough’ ????

[raven11]

Having quit, three years ago, rather than accept their draconian sign or be fired edict, I can only marvel at how much happier I am now that I am away from that toxic environment. The palatable hatred and contempt the airline held for their pilots was constantly enabled by a frightened flight ops management team that lacked the masculinity, courage and moral certainty to object.

V for Vendetta is spot on. To those poor individuals who feel there are no other options in the free world you are catastrophically wrong. Like pulling a band aid from a hardened scab, gather the courage to pack up and leave. You will be happier for it and your family will thank you. To those considering a move to Hong Kong please have your heads examined.

[cygnet78]

Yes many waiting to come. But unfortunately only 20% of the many who want to come are passing the sim ride. You see, many cannot fly. They are leaving and many who cannot fly still cannot come. Hahaha
20% passing rate. well it will change for sure. nothing to do with the ability to fly, its the cx pilots who conduct the assesment biased.

[VforVENDETTA]

20% passing rate. well it will change for sure. nothing to do with the ability to fly, its the cx pilots who conduct the assesment biased.
Tightening the sim ride standards back up was a direct result of hired candidates who struggled in training. And a number of those with fake logbooks who struggled to perform and were found out to have fake logbooks. It wasn't decided by cathay pilots who conduct interview sim rides. It was decided by training management.

[Zi Peng]

20% passing rate. well it will change for sure. nothing to do with the ability to fly, its the cx pilots who conduct the assesment biased.

I guess landing gears are telling a different story these days !
The sim assessment is basic stuff really, I don’t remember it as particularly difficult.
If you struggle you just can’t get the job.

[Gaisha]

There are so many options in the Middle East these days with BIG money and commuting options … anyone that stays in CX deserves all the heartache from the company. That goes for the locals as much as the non locals. Vote with your feet and move beyond Cathay.

[airdualbleedfault]

Jeez…

No 65ft Swan. No two (his and hers) Bentleys in the garage.No pied-a-terre in Kensington, No 20 acre country seat in Somerset?

Quelle Horreur! How could I exist on such miserable conditions. Do they not know who I am?

Clue: That (Skygod) A Scale puppy has long been euthanised. Welcome to the hard scrabble worldworld.
Congratulations, dumbest effing thing I've read on the internet this week, thanks very much for stealing 30 seconds of my life :ok: