BA and JET2 secret meeting in Leeds

[Captain Spam Can]

Any info on this? I heard from a few people (well 2 separate people, one of which confirmed it and is a skipper at JET2) the whole place was cordoned off so no one could listen in, rumours are of BA selling off the Euroflyer arm to JET2 which would allow JET2 into LGW for some slots.

[Flying Wild]

Any info on this? I heard from a few people (well 2 separate people, one of which confirmed it and is a skipper at JET2) the whole place was cordoned off so no one could listen in, rumours are of BA selling off the Euroflyer arm to JET2 which would allow JET2 into LGW for some slots.

Well that would be interesting given the historic lack of cooperation between BALPA and Jet2. The jet2 work ethic and ethos might be difficult to stomach for any die hard BA types.

[Magplug]

The jet2 work ethic and ethos might be difficult to stomach for any die hard BA types.
I don't think you will find any 'die hard BA types' at LGW. They are mostly new hires from the last couple of years and a few new commands from BA mainline who are there to preserve their pension rights.

[PC767]

Here we are again.

GO flogged to Easyjet (was it?).
BA Connect (as the regions plus Brymon and BRAL became) flogged to FlyBe.

BA cannot make lower cost work, mostly I presume, because there is nothing low cost to BA's corporate structure.

[Jonty]

Or maybe BA are taking a share in Jet2?

[ETOPS]

BA have put some effort into setting up this new Gatwick operation with new terms and conditions and airframes transferred in.
If they have already realised it isn’t working then hiving off to Jet2 might fit.

[eagle21]

Will Balpa at BA now be preoccupied saving Euroflyer pilot jobs and use this to compromise a bit more on the mainline pay deal?

[HOVIS]

I don't think you will find any 'die hard BA types' at LGW. They are mostly new hires from the last couple of years and a few new commands from BA mainline who are there to preserve their pension rights.
Do they have any pension rights? I thought it was closed about five years ago.

[excrab]

I’m not saying it’s not happening, but if Jet2 and BA wanted a secret meeting I can’t really see why they would draw attention to it by cordoning off Low Fare Finder House. Wouldn’t they more sensibly hire an anonymous meeting room in a hotel somewhere off the M1?

[Flightrider]

If it's all over PPrune, that has to be the worst kept secret in quite some time.

And as Excrab has stated, if it was to be that secret, you'd have met at Watford Gap service station or something.

[HOVIS]

Too right. What goes on at Watford Gap stays at Watford Gap. 😁

[Granite City Flyer]

They were too busy with meetings last week to go offsite. The morning before the BA meeting they were finalising the details of the deployment of the 6 x A330s ordered recently. In the afternoon HR joined in so a decision could be taken on wether the second pay rise of the year will be 3 or 4% in September. The following day was mostly concerned with which variant of the Max to order and how many 321 orders will be upgraded to XLRs. On Friday somebody went in to one of the meeting rooms and found an agenda for next weeks meetings, apparently Egypt, Cape Verde and long haul will be the topics for discussion.

[Globally Challenged]

Here we are again.

GO flogged to Easyjet (was it?).
BA Connect (as the regions plus Brymon and BRAL became) flogged to FlyBe.

BA cannot make lower cost work, mostly I presume, because there is nothing low cost to BA's corporate structure.

BA mainline has basically been a low cost service for legacy prices ever since Cruz came in

[Jonty]

They were too busy with meetings last week to go offsite. The morning before the BA meeting they were finalising the details of the deployment of the 6 x A330s ordered recently. In the afternoon HR joined in so a decision could be taken on wether the second pay rise of the year will be 3 or 4% in September. The following day was mostly concerned with which variant of the Max to order and how many 321 orders will be upgraded to XLRs. On Friday somebody went in to one of the meeting rooms and found an agenda for next weeks meetings, apparently Egypt, Cape Verde and long haul will be the topics for discussion.


good one! 🤣

[hunterboy]

Sell it off for all the staff cares… I’m an employee not a shareholder. Sounds like J2 pay better than BA at LGW anyway. Sounds like a pay rise for most pilots down there….

[Asturias56]

"They were too busy with meetings last week to go offsite."

that's the lower echelons of management

Something like flogging off Gatwick would be middle management at least

Top management just count their bonus package

[CayleysCoachman]

You can create low cost from nothing. You can never create low cost from legacy. That said, the best bits of Go were more than worth having, it’s just that Stelios didn’t grab the very finest thing they had to offer…

[Abbey Road]

That said, the best bits of Go were more than worth having, it’s just that Stelios didn’t grab the very finest thing they had to offer…

... which was ...... what, exactly?

[kriskross]

The Boss.

[3Greens]

The Boss.
Bruce Springsteen?

[LBAflyer22]

"They were too busy with meetings last week to go offsite."

that's the lower echelons of management

Something like flogging off Gatwick would be middle management at least

Top management just count their bonus package


You have no idea how the company is run then. Because I can assure you something this profile will be discussed at the very tops. Not just "middle management".

[TUIblue]

In November 2022 the Financial Times ran a story that no body in the aviation world seemed to pick up on it was only a small piece

The FT story said that IAG the owners of BA was looking to acquire a low cost carrier in the Uk Jet2 and easy jet were both named as potential targets for acquisition IAG believe they need a low cost carrier to help with growth and better fight the likes of Ryan air

the story percificly named jet2 as urgently needing to get into Gatwick the story went on to say BA would leave Gatwick short haul to jet2 if a accusation went through

It seems to me it could be BA trying to buy jet2 and not the other way around

[PAXboy]

A legacy company buying up a low cost, or newer, company only works if the legacy Board leave the new company to do well what they have done well. History tells us that when an old company buy a new one - they start to meddle with it. This is not just in the airline world, I saw a big bank buy smaller bank as they were making good money. A few years later it was a mess and old company lost a lot of money,

[Asturias56]

"You have no idea how the company is run then. Because I can assure you something this profile will be discussed at the very tops. "

Be the first time the board of BA have really discussed LGW at all - never mind their masters at IAG

[Say Mach Number]

Watch out. Most companies who want to try and compete with Ryanair, (if that is the intention) first move is find an ex FR manager or headhunt one from FR.

EasyJet found out the hard way it’s doesn’t always pay off. Mind you that person was the biggest BALPA recruiting sergeant for EZY my mate tells me!

If IAG went down that route Jet2 pilots can kiss goodbye to 2 sector days and sitting at home doing 2 flights a month over winter.

[Stone Cold II]

EasyJet found out the hard way it’s doesn’t always pay off. Mind you that person was the biggest BALPA recruiting sergeant for EZY my mate tells me!

Yep, membership pretty much went to 100% and we didn’t lose our Ts&Cs and nobody lost their job if they didn’t want too. We don’t fly to EASA FTLs either, kept the tried and trusted ones and have protections in place.

[back to Boeing]

Watch out. Most companies who want to try and compete with Ryanair, (if that is the intention) first move is find an ex FR manager or headhunt one from FR.

EasyJet found out the hard way it’s doesn’t always pay off. Mind you that person was the biggest BALPA recruiting sergeant for EZY my mate tells me!

If IAG went down that route Jet2 pilots can kiss goodbye to 2 sector days and sitting at home doing 2 flights a month over winter.

Jet2 do not try to compete with Ryanair. Yes they started off low cost but they have moved so far away from that model.

[Say Mach Number]

Back to Boeing I was going by TUIblues comments that IAG wanted a low cost airline which IAG think Jet2 is according to below.

“The FT story said that IAG the owners of BA was looking to acquire a low cost carrier in the Uk Jet2 and easy jet were both named as potential targets for acquisition IAG believe they need a low cost carrier to help with growth and better fight the likes of Ryan air”

I’m not sure what Jet2 thinks it is but I’m pretty sure most people think of it as a low cost carrier.

[Aerostar6]

A little birdie tells me that negotiations were over slot leases.

[SWBKCB]

I’m not sure what Jet2 thinks it is but I’m pretty sure most people think of it as a low cost carrier.

Jet2 are more akin to TUI than EZY or FR

[AirUK]

Except Jet2 are just a UK low fare airline masquerading as a holiday company (like EZY) and not a big international travel organisation with multiple airlines, cruise ships, hotels and travel shops… small fry comparatively!

[jethro15]

.....small fry comparatively!

Yet VERY successful!

[HOVIS]

the story percificly named jet2 as urgently needing to get into Gatwick the story went on to say BA would leave Gatwick short haul to jet2 if a accusation went through

It seems to me it could be BA trying to buy jet2 and not the other way around
*percificly. 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁 😁

[Big Tudor]

Except Jet2 are just a UK low fare airline masquerading as a holiday company (like EZY) and not a big international travel organisation with multiple airlines, cruise ships, hotels and travel shops… small fry comparatively!

Make your mind up. Two years ago you said “Jet2 are just an airline and an online travel agency.” Given the U.K. operation has almost twice as many aircraft as TUI and ATOL licensed for more passengers not sure how you quantify this as ‘small fry’. TUI U.K. would not exist today if the previous U.K. company had not been bought out by the German parent.

[First.officer]

Jet2 are more akin to TUI than EZY or FR

Absolutely! and - if rumours are to be believed (rumours I say again lol), allegedly TUI are attempting to address the J2 'threat' in the U.K., by looking to use less of the current ACMI lease-ins, in favour of a new seasonal operation with (polish?) flight deck/cabin, and improve profits. I'd guess that if true, they are likely looking at doing ACMI/ad-hoc charter work elsewhere maybe at low season times?. Or maybe they already have a 'one-foot-in-the-door' exploratory talks with a new operation setting up that they want to use?. Either way, it shows that the J2 business model works, and they're (TUI) looking to address with their own 'lower' cost option to meet the challenges J2 present them, now and in the future?.

[Kakpipe Cosmonaut]

It’s the convention that the buyer visits the seller.

Maybe IAG visited to have a quick look over the books to see if J2 were worth buying🤷‍♂️

[G-AZUK]

Except Jet2 are just a UK low fare airline masquerading as a holiday company (like EZY) and not a big international travel organisation with multiple airlines, cruise ships, hotels and travel shops… small fry comparatively!

add profitable to that list of differences

[beardy]

add profitable to that list of differences
You can also add :not as indebted and without a major Russian shareholder.

[H44]

You’re correct about not as indebted. However, TUI were a lot more profitable than Jet2 prior to covid.

Not sure what the major Russian shareholder has to do with anything.

[beardy]

You’re correct about not as indebted. However, TUI were a lot more profitable than Jet2 prior to covid.

Not sure what the major Russian shareholder has to do with anything.
As a keen amateur investor I like to know who the major share holders are, it gives an inkling into possible future plans. I also like to monitor board members' stock movement. The major shareholder is a Russian and the company owned by his wife, they bought in when TUI had to payback their covid relief debts. I believe that he is currently sanctioned by the USA. How reliable is he? Only time will tell. I also look at profit, but not as a simple number, it's important to look at the profit in relation to many different markers. Technically TUI is close to not being liquid, debts are greater than assets at the moment and earnings are close to interest on the debt. Not a dissimilar picture to Thomas Cook. The opportunity for share growth exists but only if the market remains buoyant and margins stay strong and investors (and banks) stay reliable. The cost of borrowing to cover the debts has increased remarkably and may stay high for some time. This could put pressure on TUI.
Jet2 benefit greatly when TUI don't cut prices(in order to preserve their margins). TUI are present in many markets whereas Jet2 rely on the UK. So far the UK market has held up well, the same can't be said for some of TUI's markets.

So whose shares should one buy, if either?


Sorry if it's a bit of thread drift. This 'meeting' doesn’t appear to have affected Jet2 share price much, yet.

[dixi188]

If PM is still a large shareholder I guess he may be looking to cash in by selling his stake. He must be around 80 by now.
I havn't worked for EXS since 2005.

[Mr Good Cat]

If PM is still a large shareholder I guess he may be looking to cash in by selling his stake. He must be around 80 by now.
I havn't worked for EXS since 2005.

75 I think, and seems he has no plans to cash in yet and is staying close to the nerve centre in a mentoring/advisory role. Something which makes me feel a little better.

[beardy]

If PM is still a large shareholder I guess he may be looking to cash in by selling his stake. He must be around 80 by now.
I havn't worked for EXS since 2005.
On the 13th July this year he bought 15000 shares, he still owns over 18% of the company and is the largest shareholder.

[Sh02]

Just seen on LinkedIn that Jet2 are hiring customer helpers at Gatwick airport? Looks like something is going to be announced then?

[Charley B]

Could this possibly be for their Ski flights,they did these flights last winter from Gatwick ?

[Sh02]

Could this possibly be for their Ski flights,they did these flights last winter from Gatwick ?

It looks to be a full time position not fixed term. If it’s just for the winter wouldn’t it make more sense for them to just use a contractor already operating in the airport?

It could be something, could be nothing. Time will tell…

[Del Prado]

Jet2 benefit greatly when TUI don't cut prices(in order to preserve their margins). TUI are present in many markets whereas Jet2 rely on the UK. So far the UK market has held up well, the same can't be said for some of TUI's markets.

Flip side to that is, most of the income is in £ and a large part of the outgoings are in $. £ is low and still falling. An over reliance on the U.K. market isn’t really a boon.

[pax britanica]

Based on service Jet 2 ought to take over BA , TUI cannot come close to them like for like but TUI are a much bigger entitiy in terms of multiple countires and wider ranging products.

Easyjet are often no cheaper than BA by the time everying is added on excpet for some promo fairs at odd times of day.

[beardy]

Flip side to that is, most of the income is in £ and a large part of the outgoings are in $. £ is low and still falling. An over reliance on the U.K. market isn’t really a boon.
True, but it's not much different for the euro/dollar rates. Jet2 don't rely on the UK market, it is their market.

[2Planks]

Flip side to that is, most of the income is in £ and a large part of the outgoings are in $. £ is low and still falling. An over reliance on the U.K. market isn’t really a boon.
And a lot of TUIs income is in Euros, the euro has followed a similar trajectory to the pound in relation to the dollar.

[Del Prado]

And a lot of TUIs income is in Euros, the euro has followed a similar trajectory to the pound in relation to the dollar.


Since the 2015 event, Euro has gone from 1.11 to 1.05 against the $.
£ has dropped from 1.53 to 1.21 but I guess it depends on your timescale.

/sorry, off topic.

[bean]

Since the 2015 event, Euro has gone from 1.11 to 1.05 against the $.
£ has dropped from 1.53 to 1.21 but I guess it depends on your timescale.

/sorry, off topic.
1.53 was pre brexit. Pound has been nowhere near 1.53 since June 23rd 2016

[Del Prado]

1.53 was pre brexit. Pound has been nowhere near 1.53 since June 23rd 2016

That’s what I mean and that’s what I said (ok 2016 not 15 - fat fingers!)
Just lamenting Brexit really and the financial penalties faced by so many businesses in the UK, and airlines more than most.

anyway, I’m sure there’s a better thread for me to bring this up on. 😉