Glider Crash - Melton Mowbray

[golfbananajam]

Getting news of a two glider crash near Melton Mowbray, no details but Air Ambulance, Coast Guard helicopter and emergency services are there. Hope the occupants are ok.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/483x403/crash_site_f8566c5d44a858624973fd62fe426b3a8b8e5a18.jpg

[DaveReidUK]

Doesn't look good - AAIB en route.

[lightonthewater]

The BBC website reports one fatality , sadly.

[Andrewgr2]

The BBC website reports one fatality , sadly.

Are you sure? This report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-66538308 says ‘no details of any injuries have been confirmed’.

[lightonthewater]

The headline I saw definitely stated a fatality: 'a 40 year old'. But maybe they got it wrong and have corrected it subsequently.

[Andrewgr2]

The headline I saw definitely stated a fatality: 'a 40 year old'. But maybe they got it wrong and have corrected it subsequently.

Did you perhaps see this report; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-66532844 ?
Sadly, there was a fatal gliding accident at Dunstable yesterday involving someone in their 40s. Not a good week for gliding.

[ETOPS]

UK Gliding has a pretty good safety record but losing 4 machines in two days seems more than a statistical blip.

Has the recent lack of good weather played a part?

The BBC report of the collision tells of one surviving pilot - here's hoping for his colleague...

[GLIDERSEEKER]

I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news. This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive. The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.

[treadigraph]

losing 4 machines in two days

For avoidance of doubt, the fourth glider was badly damaged (tail unit broken off ahead of the fin) landing out in the Black Mountains, believe the pilot was injured.

Quick look at ADSB around the time of the midair showed a number of gliders thermalling in the Melton Mowbray area around the time of the accident, don't know if this was a contest task or if they all came from the same gliding site.

[Local Variation]

Local media now reporting 1 x fatality, the other ok.

[cats_five]

I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news. This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive. The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.

It's great for the family & friends of the dead pilot to know that the cause has been established almost before the AAIB have returned to base - that there is no possibility of medical incapacitation or some sort of mechanical failure.

[DaveJ75]

This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings... The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.

I appreciate you probably wrote that in an understandably emotive environment BUT you absolutely cannot state the above with any certainty whatsoever. The automatic assumption that pilots involved in a mid-air are heads-in or 'not paying attention' is ridiculous; there are numerous ways that this awful accident could have occurred.

[RatherBeFlying]

Unfortunately there is a number of collisions in North America between Flarm equipped aircraft where one unit was not on:

Taxiing towplane with Flarm switched off had propstrike on wingtip of glider that had just landed and pulled in front of towplane
Fatal midair between towplane with inop Flarm and glider
Midair between two gliders. One Flarm had expired software.

Range analysis was performed on gliders at the Canadian Nationals. Most were substandard.

Flarm Range and Antenna Placement Photos (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12DKioyOhPVzm6rvoKjPXRBRHint9Z-ot)

[Skylark58]

This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. .

You have no idea what either pilot was doing. Why would they be 'looking at their instruments'? That is why we have Audio Variometers, so the pilot can be eyes out, when thermalling.

[biscuit74]

Ouch. Some really bad days for British gliding. Given how small the Scottish gliding community is, we will probably all know the folk involved.
'GLIDERSEEKER' - I don't know how experienced you are but sometimes even with the best of look out going on and electronic aids too, threats are not spotted as we'd hope they should be, even with everyone's heads swivelling. Blind spots. shifting turn patterns etc. Busy, strong thermals on a comp day are part of the inevaitable hazard, sadly.

That Dunstable accident , being on take-off sounds like a high probablity of it being a winch launch issue; we do seem to be having too many of these just now - why?

[paulross]

I don't want to second guess the Melton Mowbray collision but I noticed this in the BBC report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-66544210:


David Leach, who lives on Marigold Crescent in the town, told the BBC:

"I came out and we just looked up watching them circle right above us and then, all of a sudden, there was a mighty bang. I think the end of the wing of one clipped the back end of one glider, chopping his tail end off and one of them just came crashing down like a rocket."


I remember in the late 70s or early 80s during a Lasham competition two thermalling gliders collided (they were unaware of each other). The wing of one, a PIK-20 I think, chopped off the tail off the other, a Kestrel 19.

The Kestrel, having lost the tailplane down force (and weight of tail), immediately went into a severe AND tumble that imposed a lot of negative g on the pilot. The canopy release on the Kestrel was rather fiddly to reach at best (it was changed as a result) and with the g forces, the pilot could not operate it. Eventually he was able to release his straps and was projected through the canopy, managed to deploy his parachute (but at very low level) and he survived.

The PIK-20 pilot decided the aircraft was controllable and flew back to Lasham and made a safe landing. On inspection the aircraft was badly damaged, especially the wing fittings. In fact you could move one wing tip fore and aft a lot and, whilst the other wing tip moved appropriately, the fuselage remained stationary.

One takeaway from this is; whilst the temptation is strong to stay with a damaged, but apparently controllable aircraft, you have to consider the likelihood of loosing control low down where a parachute jump would be fatal. It may be better to take the parachute option whilst you can.

[blind pew]

Winch? The BGA changed completely the teaching of winching around 15years ago which reduced the ten year fatality rate by 50% but there are those who sadly do not understand the technique and which inherent risks are important and others who are slapdash in the process, both those in the aircraft and those on the ground. There are also the mis rigging accidents as happened to Clem Bowman who was one of the USA top pilots; the tailplane fell off his Genesis.
Mid air..two airline pilots I knew in a comp out of Gransden had a mid air..wing tip to tail feathers..apparently ignoring the advice the guy with the tail damage tried to make Mildenhall? But the structure failed..bunt..no more.
I gave up comps after two near mid airs..one my fault..I gave up flying in the alps during holiday periods as too many foreigners with their eyes in the cockpit. I was warned by the ex CFI at Gap of the dangers and took his advice.
The previous owner of my Phoebus died in a mid air at La Motte du Caire with the CFI.
The only comment about the French is that they generally do not have audio varios in the club gliders..rather stupid imho although they were the first to insist that Flamm is installed.
Seen a mid air paragliding which is an infinitely slower and visible sport although many believe that the rules of the air laws aren’t applicable and only ridge soaring rules are important.
It happens and is the price of the freedoms we enjoy.

[pdk42]

I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news.

I'm competing in the same comp. It's a really terrible thing to have happened and as I'm sure you can all imagine it's had a big impact on us all. Many of us knew the pilot concerned, some very well. I've heard reports from other pilots who witnessed the collision and resulting crash, but really all we know for sure is that the collision happened a little under 2000' and when a number of gliders were sharing a weak thermal. The conditions up at Melton Mowbray at the time were marginal (I know, I was there) and so there was a lot of "gaggling".


This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings.

I really must push back on what you're saying here. Firstly, any pilot in this comp at this level will be very experienced and will not be peering at instruments excessively, especially if the thermal is busy. It does service to no one to jump to conclusions about lack of awareness or paying too much attention to instruments. Secondly, flying close to other gliders is something that glider pilots do, esp in competitions where there are many gliders doing the same task. As such, collision is a significant risk and any comp pilot will be more than aware of the dangers and will accept them. It is totally the wrong conclusion to draw here that either pilot was flying beyond what is normal behaviour for this type of flying competition.


He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive.

Yes, I agree. It's a terrible tragedy.


The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.

I dispute both your claims here. We can't say for sure that the weather played a factor in this crash. And it is NOT true that the last few days have been "exceptional". In fact, they are no better than average (in any normal summer), as reflected by tasks of under 300km in both the A and B classes.

[biscuit74]

I agree on winching 'blindpew'. Sadly, we seem to be seeing a repeat of previous failures to understand the techniques - or are re-inventing the same old errors & accidents, rather as has been happening with mis-rigging. (Of course the Dunstable take=off accident coudl equally be mis-rigging. The other option, an aerotow upset seems unlikely since no power aircraft mentioned. All most upsetting and dreadful for those involved.)

I guess we need to keep reminding folk, hopefully without 'boring' them - wehich seems to be a common response to Safety briefings, unless carefully conducted ! There seems to be a ten to fifteen year cycle in accident types - the previous generation moves on, or everyone starts worrying about something else instead.

Your comments about comps & about Alpine flying are most interesting. The latter I wondered & worried about some time ago, in that same area. It is a superb place to fly but can get very busy.

'pdk42' - you have my sympathy, you all have. It's a dreadful thing to have happen during your comp. Of course, those of us not there don't yet know who was involved, so we just have to wait and wonder. Scottish gliding is a small world, which makes it worse. Nasty for everyone.

[punkalouver]

I appreciate you probably wrote that in an understandably emotive environment BUT you absolutely cannot state the above with any certainty whatsoever. The automatic assumption that pilots involved in a mid-air are heads-in or 'not paying attention' is ridiculous; there are numerous ways that this awful accident could have occurred.
While I appreciate the idea of not making automatic assumptions, unfortunately, the medical incapacitation cause gets thrown around a lot as an intentional way to avoid blame.

I read about a glider crash last year where the investigating agency mentioned that the elevator was not hooked up. But this is only in a daily report with a list of other accidents that most of the public never hears about. When a person I know told me that he knew the pilot, I mentioned about the details of the cause. But my friend was adamant that it had been a heart attack as that is what he was told by the people who had been to the funeral, so I didn’t pursue it further.

This year my friend advised of a further conversation that he had with a closer acquaintance of the pilot. It went along the lines of “Do you know the real reason for the crash? The elevator was not hooked up”. But the story from close associates is apparently still heart attack.

I have been told that the pilot was quite experienced.

A couple of bottom lines. It is not uncommon for intentionally misleading information to be disseminated about an accident. It can be people with an agenda to help or harm a reputation. In addition, a surviving pilot frequently is the one lying about this for insurance or reputation or for liability or enforcement reasons.

The other bottom line is to always do a positive control check before flight after assembling a glider.

[Jim59]

The BGA website suggests the Dunstable accident was from an aerotow.

[biscuit74]

Thanks 'Jim59'. Had not seen that. Sad event whatever the cause.

[ATC Watcher]

Very sad stories . From my experience ( over 50 years of gliding ) I do not buy in general the “heart attack “stories .they just surface when we have no explanation , and run out of hypotheses especially if the guy was a very experienced pilot .

Gliding accidents are very different from other general aviation ones, and those happening in competitions, are nearly all fully preventable if the comp rules were followed to the letter .
I do not do comps anymore , and since a few years now even refuse to tow during competitions.
Am not going to expand why here , off topic
.
But one last remark on Farm not working :
In Oshkosh, a few weeks ago there was only one glider on exhibition , at the SSA ( US Soaring Society ) stand , a ASG29 if my memory is correct, talked to its owner , looked at the cockpit to check instrumentation , and noticed a switch in the middle of the panel : FLARM on/off . I asked why : “sometimes i do not want others to see where I am “

.

[blind pew]

My last uk club both the CFI, a nationals pilot, forgot to connect the elevator which was found just before he aerotowed in a comp by a junior trying to spook him by wiggling the control surface. At a safari to Aboyne an ascat aerotowed twice and ended up in the rough without his elevator connected.
The owner of Killkenny died in a B4 from a heart failure.
He had been unable to pass a medical for many years.
I was involved in the search and rescue for a close friend in his early 40s..I thought he was bipolar but was asked to translate the autopsy which stated he had an earlier heart attack within the last month
His paragliding logger led us to believe that he had hit the mountain whilst flying 360s but the autopsy said he was already dead.
This last incident led me to rethink papa India which killed my mate..I had seen Stan key the day before arguing in the crew room and thought he was off his trolley..my friend occasionally exhibited similar behaviour.

[Krystal n chips]

Rigging accidents....why does the term "duplicate inspection " come to mind

[longer ron]

Hell what a tragic accident - the Pilot who died was a really nice guy - very experienced and very capable :(

[DaveJ75]

Very sad stories . From my experience ( over 50 years of gliding ) I do not buy in general the “heart attack “stories .they just surface when we have no explanation , and run out of hypotheses especially if the guy was a very experienced pilot

Completely agree - unfortunately the UK AAIB seem to favour the suggestion when out of ideas

[blind pew]

Unfortunately it does happen as besides the two deaths in flight I mentioned in Ireland I discovered the body of a fellow club uk member who had collapsed walking back out to the K6 I had recently flown; he had been into ballroom dancing and had visited his GP several times complaining of chest pains and told there was nothing to worry about.
Another acquaintance had had a stress ECG six weeks before he flew the DC10 from his base in Toronto to Gatwick..went shopping and died as he left the supermarket in Crawley.
A mate took over on the DC9 when the skipper collapsed at the controls on final approach.
‘Another did a tail scrape when the captain who was setting the power went into a trance.
The most recent was an old mate who started off flying fighters in the malitia..flag carrier..and ended up flying for a Chinese Billionaire, he exhibited some strange behaviour including hiding in the toilet when the bill came, flew to Peking and died in his hotel room.
Stress does funny things to the ticker and I once had a stress cardio which was delayed until a full resus team arrived as a previous victim had died (was after a long bout of health problems which no one was able to diagnose - probably linked to neurotoxins).

[Jim59]

Rigging accidents....why does the term "duplicate inspection " come to mind

The BGA recommend that after a glider has been rigged that all the flying controls be checked with the assistance of a second person to verify that they are connected and operating in the correct direction. In my club the club's hangared gliders are also checked the same way before flying each day even when they have not been rigged since last checked. Most pilots are pretty diligent about this. When problems arise it is often when the daily inspection has been interrupted and something gets missed. Other pilots should never interrupt anybody doing a DI.

[blind pew]

The BGA recommend that after a glider has been rigged that all the flying controls be checked with the assistance of a second person to verify that they are connected and operating in the correct direction. In my club the club's hangared gliders are also checked the same way before flying each day even when they have not been rigged since last checked. Most pilots are pretty diligent about this. When problems arise it is often when the daily inspection has been interrupted and something gets missed. Other pilots should never interrupt anybody doing a DI.
we all make mistakes and it's partly due to helping others rather than saying sod off. The two incidents in my main English club were both instructors, checked others and ran the airfield.
I received a rollicking after instructing on a K13 in Ireland. The glider had been flown the previous day some time after re rigging. We had an ammo box for the spanners and lead hammer which was checked after rigging religiously. I did everything before flying except turning myself upside down and peering under the seat..if I had I would have found a 22mm spanner which had been flown around for the last week.
We bought a K21 from Germany and a while later a mate who spent lots of money onto become British champion did some negative stuff then tried to pull out..Two pairs of hands bent an eight millimetre spanner left by the germans under the seat pan after they decided to remove an instrument after the sale was agreed.
I imported a B4 AF from germany..the mandatory airbrake mod hadn't been done correctly nor had our clubs..Dietmar Pole noticed it whilst doing a repair.
In my youth I got stuck in a spin between cloud layers whilst flying a Condor..unbeknown some clown had adjusted the differential brakes which had restricted rudder movement. I noticed the lack of complete rudder authority but thought it would be safe along as I didn't demand a 3 turn spin from my student in the opposite direction. I was wrong.
One can only do ones best and the rest is in the hands of the gods.
I could go on but the Mrs says I do that too much ready.

[Geriaviator]

My friend owned a Beech Baron and renewed his IR rating and medical with ecg etc as usual. The following day he complained of feeling unwell and sat down in his kitchen chair. As his wife turned to answer him he slipped off the chair with a massive cardiac event and was dead before he hit the floor. You never know the moment ...

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news. This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive. The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.

Well that saves the AIIB a heap of trouble. What an unspeakably stupid thing to write on a public forum. Spare a thought for the survivor and the family of the dead before launching into what is so obviously your vast area of knowledge and expertise.

[cats_five]

It does. Years ago I found a race meet at the sailing club had finished very early. Turned out one of the competitors had collapsed in his boat and died despite a decent attempt at CPR. It was said later he was probably dead before he hit the floor boards in the dinghy.

[ATC Watcher]

Well that saves the AIIB a heap of trouble. What an unspeakably stupid thing to write on a public forum. Spare a thought for the survivor and the family of the dead before launching into what is so obviously your vast area of knowledge and expertise. A first post and with that username, I had already disregarded the post and I believe the AIIB will do the same .

[cats_five]

A first post and with that username, I had already disregarded the post and I believe the AIIB will do the same .

Thankfully I think the AAIB will ignore everything posted here

[dash34]

Very sad stories . From my experience ( over 50 years of gliding ) I do not buy in general the “heart attack “stories .they just surface when we have no explanation , and run out of hypotheses especially if the guy was a very experienced pilot .

Gliding accidents are very different from other general aviation ones, and those happening in competitions, are nearly all fully preventable if the comp rules were followed to the letter .
I do not do comps anymore , and since a few years now even refuse to tow during competitions.
Am not going to expand why here , off topic
.
But one last remark on Farm not working :
In Oshkosh, a few weeks ago there was only one glider on exhibition , at the SSA ( US Soaring Society ) stand , a ASG29 if my memory is correct, talked to its owner , looked at the cockpit to check instrumentation , and noticed a switch in the middle of the panel : FLARM on/off . I asked why : “sometimes i do not want others to see where I am “

.

For the record, a separate on/off switch is required in the FLARM installation guide. How it is used, however, is up to the pilot.

[Jim59]

I think the company is called 'FLARM Technology AG' since it is registered in Switzerland.

Why is it a scam for three people to come up with an idea to improve safety, create a product to implement their idea and sell it with their creative rights being protected? That's the way most commercial companies work. Patents and registered designs etc. exist to protect designer’s /inventor's rights. Why is FLARM Technology AG a scam for operating like most mainstream businesses?

[punkalouver]

Flight privacy is used by FLARM Tech Ltd as an excuse for requiring people to buy their hardware and/or software rather than allowing open implementation.

For some reason this privacy isn't private from anyone prepared to pay FLARM £2,000 for their receiver and app.

And the CAA seems happy to go along with, and even fund, this scam.

Saved me from a close call with a motorglider recently. Seems like a pretty rewarding scam to me.

[blind pew]

https://www.xctracer.com/en/product-page/xc-tracer-maxx
I have this kit for around 600 quid..iirc my first Flarm rx cost around £300.
it’s got Fanet? Multiple gps..accelerometers..terrain data base ..vario ..baro and beeps..
on top of this it can be linked to a pretty screen or a paper type reader which one can load airspace into - and see in sunlight.
My first logger, around 5 times this price was faulty and didn’t do a lot ..still easier to use than smoking and winding a barograph..
The CAA even gave me a couple of hundred quid back as they were promoting in for flight safety.

[Ridger]

Thankfully I think the AAIB will ignore everything posted here

As the state investigator I would certainly hope so! Can you imagine...

[lederhosen]

Someone recommended a bicycling app for tracking instructional flights. He said it provided an interesting record for reviewing what you had done. I think it was Komoot. I have not tried it yet. Does anyone have any experience with it or similar free trackers?

[blind pew]

You're confusing the product with the principle. Another, possibly cheaper or even free, would also have saved you hat's technology advancing. You can get most of that and more in a £50 smartphone too. And it happens better in a competitive environment. Detailed terrain data is free in GB and SRTM globally so if you were charged for that you have been had.

;Not at all as I didn’t buy it for FLARM. Having tried at least 15 different glider/hang glider and paraglider systems over 25 odd years, several at the same time, I want a super quick vario which cancelled “false” or stick lift without a pitot tube..helps recognise wind shear “lift”, displays accurately wind velocity (close to a mountain face whilst figure of eighting) which you would understand if you tried your hand at mountain flying (below the crest as the french call it); added to that I need a logger, altimeter and ground velocity. Flarm is a nicety but the extreme closeness renders it useless for the type of flying I do. I occasionally fly with a hacked E-reader, samsung Tablet, samsung phone running one of two programs and a folded topo. Not at the same time. The Swiss kit is the best I’ve seen..it’s only fault is that it doesn’t have a temperature sensor which if you understand inversions, air masses, wind shifts and wind shear would be a bonus.
ps it’s my kids money anyway.

[Jim59]

Supposing, for example, the radio was invented today. It's undoubtedly a safety advantage, but if Marconi insisted that everyone buy a Marconi set for £5,000 rather than have a choice of buying from ICOM or Garmin then the consumer would be worse off long-term.
So the 37 or so patents Marconi took out to protect his inventions have made us worse off?


What three words are attempting the same thing with physical location. It's an advantage being able to report your position easily, but supposing you end up having to "report passing owner duck sports" and pay 5p every time you do so because they've successfully lobbied NATS to make them a monopoly on position reporting.
Longitude and Lattitude? Map Grid references? Where is the monopoly?

Clearly your mind is made up.

[DaveReidUK]

Longitude and Latitude? Map Grid references? Where is the monopoly?

Clearly your mind is made up.

To be fair, a lot of people who know what they're talking about have concerns over W3W, not so much about the technology as about their business model:

Why What3Words is not suitable for safety critical applications (https://cybergibbons.com/security-2/why-what3words-is-not-suitable-for-safety-critical-applications/)

Rescuers question what3words' use in emergencies (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57156797)

Why we don't use What 3 Words (https://www.walklakes.co.uk/opus64534.html)

[blind pew]

Someone recommended a bicycling app for tracking instructional flights. He said it provided an interesting record for reviewing what you had done. I think it was Komoot. I have not tried it yet. Does anyone have any experience with it or similar free trackers?
Don’t know that but paraglidingforum.com have loads of gen on tracking and a link to leonardo which can read the data.
I bought a satellite communicator which links to a mobile which allows messaging outside of mobile phone coverage in Europe, tracking and an SOS facility. Bought from NHBS cost £168 plus an annual subscription. Far more than you need but having had problems reporting an on going arson attack near Carlingford within line of sight of phone masts appreciate the thought that if I have a minor accident I will have help on the way.

[ATC Watcher]

For the record, a separate on/off switch is required in the FLARM installation guide. How it is used, however, is up to the pilot.
in which country ?
in France ( and Germany I believe) if you have FLARM installed it must be ON all the time , i.e. as long as it is battery powered , son
no on/off switch , just a fuse .
. In the Alps in France ( and I believe in Switzerland and Austria but wait to be corrected ) it is even mandatory No club which manages the French Alps airfields will allow you to fly without a FLARM . And this is also valid for all competitions too Statewide . FLARM u/s = glider grounded .

[lederhosen]

I have never heard of Flarm being mandatory or (as suggested here) that when installed it must be switched on in Germany. It is a great aid to safety. But some pilots definitely turn it off when they don’t want to be tracked. Also some of the installations particularly the very simple older displays are unreliable to the extent that they distract rather than help. We have an excellent interface with an LX9000 on our Arcus which often shows not just conflicting traffic but climb rates of other gliders. Having said that it is nothing like as foolproof as TCAS. Flarm targets appear and disappear in an unpredictable manner which can be disconcerting. Overall it is great and I always use it, but it is no substitute for the mark one eyeball.

[ATC Watcher]

I have never heard of Flarm being mandatory or (as suggested here) that when installed it must be switched on in Germany. It is a great aid to safety. But some pilots definitely turn it off when they don’t want to be tracked. .
Thanks you , and while I fully agree with the rest of your post on the need NOT to solely rely on FLARM and open your eyes, your remark explains a lot the attitude of some German pilots when flying in France.:rolleyes:
FLARM is mandatory in France since 2013 : Ce 1er mars 2013, par décision de la Fédération Française de Vol à Voile (FFVV) l'emport du Flarm est devenu obligatoire sur tous les planeurs, moto-planeurs et avions de servitude utilisés en France. so if you want to use a glider in an airfield member of FFVP ( the new name of FFVV and except to a handful of private fields they all are members in France) you need a workable Flarm and that includes towing aircraft ( avions de servitude) the mandate is not only for French registered gliders but for ANY glider used in France.
The main reasons given by some pilots that do not want to be tracked are : not give a clue to their adversaries as to when there are going during competitions, or penetrating class D or C airspace. We are far, far away from a safety discussion .. .

[punkalouver]

For the record, a separate on/off switch is required in the FLARM installation guide. How it is used, however, is up to the pilot.




Interesting. I have flown two glider types now and neither has an individual switch for the FLARM. Same with the tow plane, although that is a portable unit that I believe is home assembled that is taken out at the end of the day and put on a charger

[biscuit74]

that includes towing aircraft ( avions de servitude)

Interesting, thanks. I thought towplane were 'remorquers'. Or are there other 'avions de servitude' operating in the Alps as well - like survey or rescue helicopters?

[ATC Watcher]

Interesting, thanks. I thought towplane were 'remorquers'. Or are there other 'avions de servitude' operating in the Alps as well - like survey or rescue helicopters?
No ,the rescue helicopters are from Securite civile or Gendarmerie, both state aircraft ..The term "avions de servitude" is just an administrative term to define remorqueurs , but also the motorgliders used for training which are F-C registered. (SF25, Super Dimonas, etc) basically any aircraft registered with the FFVP. .The French "Federation" system is complicated (but very effective) you have to be "licenced" (i.e buy a membership) to be able to fly any aircraft covered by them , including the remorqueurs. All are insured mutually by them at a very, very competitive rate , and you also receive a substantial subventions when a club buys a new modern glider or even a remorqueur. . But there are a few rules to follow, FLARM is one of them .