Glider Crash - Melton Mowbray
Thread Starter
Glider Crash - Melton Mowbray
Getting news of a two glider crash near Melton Mowbray, no details but Air Ambulance, Coast Guard helicopter and emergency services are there. Hope the occupants are ok.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Only occasionally above FL50
Age: 71
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
6 Posts
Are you sure? This report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-66538308 says ‘no details of any injuries have been confirmed’.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Only occasionally above FL50
Age: 71
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
6 Posts
Sadly, there was a fatal gliding accident at Dunstable yesterday involving someone in their 40s. Not a good week for gliding.
UK Gliding has a pretty good safety record but losing 4 machines in two days seems more than a statistical blip.
Has the recent lack of good weather played a part?
The BBC report of the collision tells of one surviving pilot - here's hoping for his colleague...
Has the recent lack of good weather played a part?
The BBC report of the collision tells of one surviving pilot - here's hoping for his colleague...
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news. This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive. The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,625
Received 298 Likes
on
166 Posts
For avoidance of doubt, the fourth glider was badly damaged (tail unit broken off ahead of the fin) landing out in the Black Mountains, believe the pilot was injured.
Quick look at ADSB around the time of the midair showed a number of gliders thermalling in the Melton Mowbray area around the time of the accident, don't know if this was a contest task or if they all came from the same gliding site.
Quick look at ADSB around the time of the midair showed a number of gliders thermalling in the Melton Mowbray area around the time of the accident, don't know if this was a contest task or if they all came from the same gliding site.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am currently crewing for a glider in the same comp that this incident happened in. It was a tough day for everyone, especially after hearing the news. This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings. He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive. The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.
This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings... The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.
Unfortunately there is a number of collisions in North America between Flarm equipped aircraft where one unit was not on:
Flarm Range and Antenna Placement Photos
- Taxiing towplane with Flarm switched off had propstrike on wingtip of glider that had just landed and pulled in front of towplane
- Fatal midair between towplane with inop Flarm and glider
- Midair between two gliders. One Flarm had expired software.
Flarm Range and Antenna Placement Photos
Ouch. Some really bad days for British gliding. Given how small the Scottish gliding community is, we will probably all know the folk involved.
'GLIDERSEEKER' - I don't know how experienced you are but sometimes even with the best of look out going on and electronic aids too, threats are not spotted as we'd hope they should be, even with everyone's heads swivelling. Blind spots. shifting turn patterns etc. Busy, strong thermals on a comp day are part of the inevaitable hazard, sadly.
That Dunstable accident , being on take-off sounds like a high probablity of it being a winch launch issue; we do seem to be having too many of these just now - why?
'GLIDERSEEKER' - I don't know how experienced you are but sometimes even with the best of look out going on and electronic aids too, threats are not spotted as we'd hope they should be, even with everyone's heads swivelling. Blind spots. shifting turn patterns etc. Busy, strong thermals on a comp day are part of the inevaitable hazard, sadly.
That Dunstable accident , being on take-off sounds like a high probablity of it being a winch launch issue; we do seem to be having too many of these just now - why?
I don't want to second guess the Melton Mowbray collision but I noticed this in the BBC report https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-66544210:
I remember in the late 70s or early 80s during a Lasham competition two thermalling gliders collided (they were unaware of each other). The wing of one, a PIK-20 I think, chopped off the tail off the other, a Kestrel 19.
The Kestrel, having lost the tailplane down force (and weight of tail), immediately went into a severe AND tumble that imposed a lot of negative g on the pilot. The canopy release on the Kestrel was rather fiddly to reach at best (it was changed as a result) and with the g forces, the pilot could not operate it. Eventually he was able to release his straps and was projected through the canopy, managed to deploy his parachute (but at very low level) and he survived.
The PIK-20 pilot decided the aircraft was controllable and flew back to Lasham and made a safe landing. On inspection the aircraft was badly damaged, especially the wing fittings. In fact you could move one wing tip fore and aft a lot and, whilst the other wing tip moved appropriately, the fuselage remained stationary.
One takeaway from this is; whilst the temptation is strong to stay with a damaged, but apparently controllable aircraft, you have to consider the likelihood of loosing control low down where a parachute jump would be fatal. It may be better to take the parachute option whilst you can.
David Leach, who lives on Marigold Crescent in the town, told the BBC:
"I came out and we just looked up watching them circle right above us and then, all of a sudden, there was a mighty bang. I think the end of the wing of one clipped the back end of one glider, chopping his tail end off and one of them just came crashing down like a rocket."
"I came out and we just looked up watching them circle right above us and then, all of a sudden, there was a mighty bang. I think the end of the wing of one clipped the back end of one glider, chopping his tail end off and one of them just came crashing down like a rocket."
The Kestrel, having lost the tailplane down force (and weight of tail), immediately went into a severe AND tumble that imposed a lot of negative g on the pilot. The canopy release on the Kestrel was rather fiddly to reach at best (it was changed as a result) and with the g forces, the pilot could not operate it. Eventually he was able to release his straps and was projected through the canopy, managed to deploy his parachute (but at very low level) and he survived.
The PIK-20 pilot decided the aircraft was controllable and flew back to Lasham and made a safe landing. On inspection the aircraft was badly damaged, especially the wing fittings. In fact you could move one wing tip fore and aft a lot and, whilst the other wing tip moved appropriately, the fuselage remained stationary.
One takeaway from this is; whilst the temptation is strong to stay with a damaged, but apparently controllable aircraft, you have to consider the likelihood of loosing control low down where a parachute jump would be fatal. It may be better to take the parachute option whilst you can.
Winch? The BGA changed completely the teaching of winching around 15years ago which reduced the ten year fatality rate by 50% but there are those who sadly do not understand the technique and which inherent risks are important and others who are slapdash in the process, both those in the aircraft and those on the ground. There are also the mis rigging accidents as happened to Clem Bowman who was one of the USA top pilots; the tailplane fell off his Genesis.
Mid air..two airline pilots I knew in a comp out of Gransden had a mid air..wing tip to tail feathers..apparently ignoring the advice the guy with the tail damage tried to make Mildenhall? But the structure failed..bunt..no more.
I gave up comps after two near mid airs..one my fault..I gave up flying in the alps during holiday periods as too many foreigners with their eyes in the cockpit. I was warned by the ex CFI at Gap of the dangers and took his advice.
The previous owner of my Phoebus died in a mid air at La Motte du Caire with the CFI.
The only comment about the French is that they generally do not have audio varios in the club gliders..rather stupid imho although they were the first to insist that Flamm is installed.
Seen a mid air paragliding which is an infinitely slower and visible sport although many believe that the rules of the air laws aren’t applicable and only ridge soaring rules are important.
It happens and is the price of the freedoms we enjoy.
Mid air..two airline pilots I knew in a comp out of Gransden had a mid air..wing tip to tail feathers..apparently ignoring the advice the guy with the tail damage tried to make Mildenhall? But the structure failed..bunt..no more.
I gave up comps after two near mid airs..one my fault..I gave up flying in the alps during holiday periods as too many foreigners with their eyes in the cockpit. I was warned by the ex CFI at Gap of the dangers and took his advice.
The previous owner of my Phoebus died in a mid air at La Motte du Caire with the CFI.
The only comment about the French is that they generally do not have audio varios in the club gliders..rather stupid imho although they were the first to insist that Flamm is installed.
Seen a mid air paragliding which is an infinitely slower and visible sport although many believe that the rules of the air laws aren’t applicable and only ridge soaring rules are important.
It happens and is the price of the freedoms we enjoy.
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This accident is pilot error, as you should never get that close to a glider in the air. It’s likely either the pilot who crashed or the one who landed was looking at their instruments in a thermal and wasn't paying attention to his surroundings.
He was very respected in the scottish gliding community and all scottish pilots remaining in the comp have picked up their trailers and left. We know as much as the media do on the state of the pilot, but the fact he didn't use his parachute before crashing means it’s likely he didn't survive.
The weather is definitely playing a factor in these crashes but the last few days have been exceptional cross country flying conditions.
I agree on winching 'blindpew'. Sadly, we seem to be seeing a repeat of previous failures to understand the techniques - or are re-inventing the same old errors & accidents, rather as has been happening with mis-rigging. (Of course the Dunstable take=off accident coudl equally be mis-rigging. The other option, an aerotow upset seems unlikely since no power aircraft mentioned. All most upsetting and dreadful for those involved.)
I guess we need to keep reminding folk, hopefully without 'boring' them - wehich seems to be a common response to Safety briefings, unless carefully conducted ! There seems to be a ten to fifteen year cycle in accident types - the previous generation moves on, or everyone starts worrying about something else instead.
Your comments about comps & about Alpine flying are most interesting. The latter I wondered & worried about some time ago, in that same area. It is a superb place to fly but can get very busy.
'pdk42' - you have my sympathy, you all have. It's a dreadful thing to have happen during your comp. Of course, those of us not there don't yet know who was involved, so we just have to wait and wonder. Scottish gliding is a small world, which makes it worse. Nasty for everyone.
I guess we need to keep reminding folk, hopefully without 'boring' them - wehich seems to be a common response to Safety briefings, unless carefully conducted ! There seems to be a ten to fifteen year cycle in accident types - the previous generation moves on, or everyone starts worrying about something else instead.
Your comments about comps & about Alpine flying are most interesting. The latter I wondered & worried about some time ago, in that same area. It is a superb place to fly but can get very busy.
'pdk42' - you have my sympathy, you all have. It's a dreadful thing to have happen during your comp. Of course, those of us not there don't yet know who was involved, so we just have to wait and wonder. Scottish gliding is a small world, which makes it worse. Nasty for everyone.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
7 Posts
I appreciate you probably wrote that in an understandably emotive environment BUT you absolutely cannot state the above with any certainty whatsoever. The automatic assumption that pilots involved in a mid-air are heads-in or 'not paying attention' is ridiculous; there are numerous ways that this awful accident could have occurred.
I read about a glider crash last year where the investigating agency mentioned that the elevator was not hooked up. But this is only in a daily report with a list of other accidents that most of the public never hears about. When a person I know told me that he knew the pilot, I mentioned about the details of the cause. But my friend was adamant that it had been a heart attack as that is what he was told by the people who had been to the funeral, so I didn’t pursue it further.
This year my friend advised of a further conversation that he had with a closer acquaintance of the pilot. It went along the lines of “Do you know the real reason for the crash? The elevator was not hooked up”. But the story from close associates is apparently still heart attack.
I have been told that the pilot was quite experienced.
A couple of bottom lines. It is not uncommon for intentionally misleading information to be disseminated about an accident. It can be people with an agenda to help or harm a reputation. In addition, a surviving pilot frequently is the one lying about this for insurance or reputation or for liability or enforcement reasons.
The other bottom line is to always do a positive control check before flight after assembling a glider.
Last edited by punkalouver; 19th Aug 2023 at 13:15.