I'm Stuck

[megan]

From AvwebIt’s not often a rescue operation happens inside an airliner but British Airways staff had to remove a door and use a hoist to free a plus-size passenger from the largest available seat on the airline. The man was in seat 1A in first class for the flight from Nigeria to Heathrow and reportedly availed himself of the delights a $7,000 ticket offers. After 6.5 hours in the air, however, he couldn’t get up.Numerous attempts by BA staff to get him up and on his way failed and a more complex effort was mounted. “A volumetric passenger is stuck in seat 1A,” an engineering staff member said in a memo the Sun said it had seen. “The plan is to remove the suite door and use a hoist to eject [him] from the seat.” It took three hours to free him.

BA staff did their best to care for the embarassed passenger, who was unhurt in the incident. “It sounded funny but, actually, people felt sorry for him,” the Sun reported a staff member as saying. “It was abject humiliation in front of hundreds of disbelieving passengers. “Crew members did all they could to calm the man.”

[HOVIS]

Not an uncommon occurrence, I saw one who had been allowed to keep their seat in the semi flat config for landing, they slid forward into the foot space as the brakes applied.
Somehow I doubt a passenger in seat 1A is visible to ten passengers never mind hundreds! Journos! 🙄

[Magplug]

I once had a passenger out of home base who was so obese he could not be loaded via the normal route. With 3 wheelchair attendants they could not control his chair on the gentle downslope of the airbridge so he descended to apron level in the passenger lift and was loaded into the aircraft via an ambilift vehicle at 1R. On entering the aircraft a couple more problems came to light. Although he had an economy ticket his size prohibited him from moving any further aft than row 1 on this A320 so he got an upgrade and was left in row 1. I did have some concerns that his weight was in excess of the seat load certification but I was assured by engineering that all was well. Once he was loaded door 1R was closed and boarding continued via 1L. When 1R was closed the previously refreshing draught from outside ceased. It was then the No.1 girl realised how much of an odour this poor fellow was giving off. The smell was indescribable. There were clearly areas of his body that had not seen the light of day for some considerable time, let alone any soap or water. In fact, he smelt like rotting flesh.

With boarding nearly complete the other 3 passengers in business class voluntarily downgraded themselves to economy to get away from the smell. At this stage I would have dearly liked to offload him as 'predjucing the well-being of other passengers' but I was assured that all company procedures had been followed and he was fit to travel...... Which means 'we don't want any bad publicity from offloading a wheelchair passenger'. As the flight-time was only 45 minutes we closed up and departed.

This was a pretty typical example of nobody on the ground wishing to make a call that was blindingly obvious..... Just like the passenger who has been drunk in the terminal for the last 2 hours...... but he is now OK to fly!

[EDLB]

You can answer yourself, what happens in an emergency evac situation. Will every rescuer let him alone or risk his live in a hopeless attempt?
Wonder if regulations allow for this.

[dixi188]

Had this with a very large lady on a FlyBe Q400. She had been loaded at Amsterdam via the front pax door with a ramp over the stairs. At Southampton there was not any suitable equipment and she was too wide to get down the asile to the rear door, so we had to empty the fwd hold and unload her via the forward baggage door. She was very cheery and apologetic about the fuss she had caused.

[ShyTorque]

Quite some years ago I flew on the same aircraft as the enormous chap who was then the recently declared world Sumo wrestling champion. Unusually, he was a Hawaiian and iirc, we were flying from Narita to Hawaii. It was impossible to get a seat belt round him even with extension belts and I think finally, rather than offload him and face what would no doubt have been huge adverse publicity, he was flown unrestrained, sprawled across either two or three seats. I was glad I wasn’t sitting in front of him!

[Magplug]

I found it quite amazing that the Captain is only ever burdened with the final decision AFTER a questionable passenger is boarded.

Another example is deportees..... The number of times I have been presented with a deportation order (usually a DEPU) to find that in his notes he has a history of violence. Some REMF in the company is supposed to vet these cases before they get to the coal face. Following my offload of one such DEPU I was informed by a manager that I should not open the deportation order..... I asked if that was the same envelope addressed to the Captain of flight xxx from HM Border Force ordering his deportation?

[Uplinker]

It is an utter disgrace that people allow themselves to get so big. If they cannot board by themselves or as a wheel chair Charlie, Romeo or Sierra, then they should not be accepted for carriage on a 'normal' flight on a normal aircraft.

Such obese people could compromise the safety of all the others on a flight.

[Less Hair]

Could they be evacuated within 90 seconds? Would a passenger life vest work for them?

[meleagertoo]

I find it worrying that Captains do not exercise their authority in such cases and either cave in to commercial pressure for illegal (unrestrained) carriage, adverse publicity or worse, blame Ops for a "decision" that is not for Ops to make, slope shoulders and do as they think the company wants.
Whatever happened to Captaincy?
If the unprofessionalism of all the staff they've encountered up to that point allows someone too big or too unwashed with regard to the comfort and safety of other pax to even reach the aircraft then it is ultimately the Captain who must make the decision and "adverse publicity' should not be a matter that even remotely affects such a decision. It's no different to allowing drunks to fly. People who can't fit in seats or be safely restrained need to either buy and occupy multiple seats or simply not travel.

[speed13ird]

and if the pax is registered disabled then the Captain exercising their Captaincy will have a bit of a problem

[meleagertoo]

Could they be evacuated within 90 seconds? Would a passenger life vest work for them?
There is no requirement for an aircraft to be evacuated in 90 seconds or any other stated measure of time.
Commonly the ability to do so to has to be demonstrated during the type's certification process which is quite another matter.

Nonetheless I was once tasked for a number of 'pilgrim' flights to Lourdes. We typically carried up to 30 patients all quadroplegic or nearly so plus two helpers each. Boarding and disembarcation took 60-90 minutes. In the event of a fire we'd have been lucky to have evacuated half a dozen helpers, if they'd have even been persuaded to leave their charges which I doubt. The Authority (of a devoutly Catholic country) granted an exemption to so operate given that all pax were made aware of the impossibility of a rapid evacuation.
No consideration was given to the moral dilemma of the crew who ordered it whilst being perfectly capable of scampering away from the scene. We had some meaningful conversations in the hotac and while all were glad, proud even to have been involved in such a worthwhile (to the pax) operation we were all deeply troubled by the ramifications if something went wrong. No one was sad when those flights stopped I can tell you.

[meleagertoo]

and if the pax is registered disabled then the Captain exercising their Captaincy will have a bit of a problem
Why? What's "registered" got to do with it? A Captain is not allowed to permit boarding of any persons likely to cause health or safety hazards to other pax. Pax unable to self-evacuate need to have the facts of life presented to them and to agree to it and as long as they don't present a hazard to others their carriage is fine. The Ops manual will specify numerical limits. If someone is either so unhygienic or sized that their presence hazards others than they MAY NOT be permitted on board. Ultimately in the real world that's the Captain's obligation decision.
A Captain can refuse boarding to anyone they please for any reason they please. It does not need to be explained to anyone on the spot. (Though it certainly will need to be justified later)

[speed13ird]

the disability discrimination act 1995 has a lot to do with it, the lawyers won't give a toss about the responsibility of the commander

[421dog]

Many passengers in twin Cessnas (on 135 charter) that were 350# +…
it was a real issue getting them in to a 421, 402 or 340. Was tempted to refuse to carry them if they couldn’t climb in unassisted, but I fortunately never had an issue.

[Jonty]

I wonder what the legal position would be if a passenger was injured or died in an incident because they couldn’t evacuate due to a passenger with reduced mobility blocking their path?
If I was in a window seat, with a PRM in an aisle seat, I would not be happy.

[kms901]

As a disabled passenger, although not particularly over weight. I know that every time I fly I would not be able to get out quickly, if at all, in the event of an emergency.

[Magplug]

If the unprofessionalism of all the staff they've encountered up to that point allows someone too big or too unwashed with regard to the comfort and safety of other pax to even reach the aircraft then it is ultimately the Captain who must make the decision and "adverse publicity' should not be a matter that even remotely affects such a decision. It's no different to allowing drunks to fly.

meleagertoo I see two problems with that statement....

1. The Captain might be responsible for the safety of the aircraft and passengers but he is wholly reliant on other colleagues discharging their duties in a timely and professional manner. How much enthusiasm and professionalism do you think minimum wage buys these days?
2. The SCCM normally only finds out about problems once the passenger in question has boarded. The Captain normally only finds out once the passenger is seated. That normally requires a degree of confrontation to resolve the issue.

Is it any wonder that we can find so many recordings on YouTube of 'Karens' and other passengers so-called 'misbehaving'. The majority have been pushed to the end of their tether having been grossly mishandled by uncaring airline staff. The incident then escalates when they are removed on the premise of misbehaviour or 'security violation'. Enter the contracted 'Mall-Cops' who only joined up because they like a fight and you have instant YouTube entertainment. Airlines treat people badly today because they can get away with it.

[slast]

In 1987 I did a B757 charter for Frank Williams with his Formula 1 team - this was a year after the accident which left him quadraplegic. At his request we found a way to secure his wheelchair in the flight deck : fortunately we didn't need to do any sort of evacuation...!

[ehwatezedoing]

If I was in a window seat, with a PRM in an aisle seat, I would not be happy.
If able I won't think twice climbing on top like a monkey to get away. Either that or above the seats in front (Or behind) The Sukoi Superjet 100 crash in Moscow back in 2017 comes to mind.

[OvertHawk]

I'm pretty sure the (UK) rules specify that no disabled person or person of reduced mobility is allowed to occupy a seat where they are impeding the exit of another pax - i.e the disabled or obese pax would need to occupy the window seat.

I have, on one occasion, quietly spoken with the cabin crew and advised them that i was not comfortable sitting on the window side of a hugely obese pax (occupying both the seats between me and the aisle) as it would restrict my exit. They understood and under a pretext to prevent embarrassment to either myself or the other guy, moved me to another seat.