United Airlines pilot sentenced to one year's suspension of flying permit at Roissy

[Tartiflette Fan]

Sunday afternoon gendarmes did a breath-test on a 63 year-old American pilot scheduled to fly Roissy - Dallas in a UA 777. They noted he had glassy eyes: He blew 0,59mg/l et 0,56mg/l ( six times the permitted level ). In his court case Tuesday , he was sentenced to one year's suspension of his flying permit and E 4 500 fine.. The judges were not convinced by his explanation of only drinking two glasses of wine the previous evening.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/roissy-un-pilote-de-ligne-ivre-condamne-a-six-mois-de-prison-avec-sursis-20230726

As a matter of interest, is his ban limited (legally ) to France, or automatically extended to the EU or some other grouping ?

[oliver2002]

United flying CDG-DFW? In which parallel universe? Did the AFP journo mean to say CDG-IAH oder AA CDG-DFW? :bored:

[Tartiflette Fan]

United flying CDG-DFW? In which parallel universe? Did the AFP journo mean to say CDG-IAH oder AA CDG-DFW? :bored:

The article says United Airlines Roissy - Dallas with no further details.

[Hartington]

The article first says "Paris-Texas" then, further on mentions Dallas. I don't believe United fly Paris to Houston but American fly Paris to Dallas. I guess it's possible the reporter asked a passenger where they were going and the passenger said Dallas because that was their final destination and the reporter failed to realise that was via somewhere in which case it could be United.

[bean]

The article first says "Paris-Texas" then, further on mentions Dallas. I don't believe United fly Paris to Houston but American fly Paris to Dallas. I guess it's possible the reporter asked a passenger where they were going and the passenger said Dallas because that was their final destination and the reporter failed to realise that was via somewhere in which case it could be United.
It is obviously Dulles Washington. DC a United hub

[DaveReidUK]

It is obviously Dulles Washington. DC a United hub

The daily UA331 CDG-IAD (STD 17:00) didn't operate on the day in question.

The fits with the time the pilot was reportedly arrested (3 pm) and the fact that he was about to fly a 777.

[Tartiflette Fan]

It seems very likely - given pronounciation nuances - that the destination airport was Dulles, however would anybody like to answer my question about how wide-ranging this French ban on the pilot is, in a legal sense ?

[Equivocal]

I would presume that it only has effect in and over French territory although I’m not sure what the flying permit mentioned in the original post actually is. Of course, if for any reason, the pilot held a licence issued by the French competent authority it would be a different matter entirely.

[Magplug]

If that pilot were to have committed the same FUI crime in the UK he would have gone to jail, particularly considering how far over the limit he was. From the POV of his standing in the USA he may well be terminated for bringing his employer into disrepute. It would also be just if the FAA echoed the French verdict and suspended his licence for the same period. Although I suspect the FAA will be keener to talk to him about his drinking habits and why he was so far over the limit in the middle of the afternoon. That will come with a minimum of a medical suspension and a mandatory period of therapy before he ever wants to get his medical back. He is in deep **** whichever way you look at it.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I would presume that it only has effect in and over French territory although I’m not sure what the flying permit mentioned in the original post actually is. Of course, if for any reason, the pilot held a licence issued by the French competent authority it would be a different matter entirely.

Just to be clear, I used the term "suspension of his flying permit " to describe permission to fly in French airspace to avoid circumlucations in translations and unnecessary verbiage. The French article simple reports a "ban ".

[stilton]

Quite apart from anything else is it really the case he was apprehended on Sunday then tried and sentenced on Tuesday ?


I’ve never seen speed like that in the legal system

[atakacs]

France has the 'comparution immediate' by which relatively minor crimes can be judged under an expedited procedure. No idea if it was applied here but likely.

[Tartiflette Fan]

France has the 'comparution immediate' by which relatively minor crimes can be judged under an expedited procedure. No idea if it was applied here but likely.

Yes, he was tried under the " comparution immédiate" procedure , so pdq since he didn't refuse and go for a full trial months later. Pretty sensible I would say.

[Oilhead]

If that pilot were to have committed the same FUI crime in the UK he would have gone to jail, particularly considering how far over the limit he was. From the POV of his standing in the USA he may well be terminated for bringing his employer into disrepute. It would also be just if the FAA echoed the French verdict and suspended his licence for the same period. Although I suspect the FAA will be keener to talk to him about his drinking habits and why he was so far over the limit in the middle of the afternoon. That will come with a minimum of a medical suspension and a mandatory period of therapy before he ever wants to get his medical back. He is in deep **** whichever way you look at it.

There is an excellent program at United, as with other airlines, along with support from ALPA and the FAA, to offer help and complete rehabilitation for instances like this, with a very high success rate. I very much doubt there will be any “firing” at all. There will be an offer of participation in a robust residential course of treatment and rehabilitation, followed by continuous extremely close surveillance of commitment and continued abstinence. It is completely dependent on a pilot wanting help with this disease of course.

[Magplug]

I very much doubt there will be any “firing” at all.
You might like to check on the finer detail of that policy you describe, it may not be quite so obliging as you state.

As a pilot in a European airline, if you put up your hand and say 'I have a substance/alcohol problem' then you will be put into a rehab programme at the company's expense.... for however long it takes. Subsequently convincing your aviation authority to give you your licence back will be a challenge later. The same holds true if you become the subject of a peer intervention because the matter is being kept within the company. Your employer is obliged to exercise a legal duty of care for their employees and in my experience they do so unfailingly. The success of the rehab programme clearly depends on the individuals' commitment.

However, if you get caught over the limit by the authorities and found guilty then you have already demonstrated that you have no interest in rehab and are content to operate whilst drunk hiding the fact from both your colleagues and the company. That is gross misconduct and will get you fired on the spot.

Companies are obliged to have a pre-flight drug & alcohol screening programme. A significantly grey area is where a pilot blows positive on a pre-flight company check.... how is he handled? This was the subject of much union discussion in my airline because of the possible inaccuracy of the testing and the fact that the authorities were not yet involved. I understand the debate continues.

[bean]

He is 63 years old. rehab programme or not, he will not fly professionally again

[Oilhead]

You might like to check on the finer detail of that policy you describe, it may not be quite so obliging as you state.



I am very familiar with this particular program at this particular airline. As long as a pilot seeks help via their union and supervisor, and makes it through the "program" agreed between the FAA, the airline and the union, that pilot will fly again.

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

If he sticks is hand up before he gets caught with his pants down presumably....

Big difference seeking help before, versus after getting caught, of course.

[Magplug]

Big difference seeking help before, versus after getting caught, of course.

But that's not what @Oilhead (who is 'very familiar with this particular program') is maintaining....... Reporting for duty under the influence of alcohol in the US is a felony offence that can get you 2-3 years behind bars and permanent licence disqualification. If the pilot gets busted it's too late to volunteer for a rehab course. Maintaining otherwise is simply ill-informed.

[Oilhead]

Indeed…. once the authorities become involved, all bets are off.

[GlobalNav]

But that's not what @Oilhead (who is 'very familiar with this particular program') is maintaining....... Reporting for duty under the influence of alcohol in the US is a felony offence that can get you 2-3 years behind bars and permanent licence disqualification. If the pilot gets busted it's too late to volunteer for a rehab course. Maintaining otherwise is simply ill-informed.

Thats the appropriate answer! 👍🏻

[Flyg1rl]

I am very familiar with this particular program at this particular airline. As long as a pilot seeks help via their union and supervisor, and makes it through the "program" agreed between the FAA, the airline and the union, that pilot will fly again.
That sounds reasonable. Only one has to seek help and can't be caught in the "act". Than it becomes a completely different story.

[MarkerInbound]

I’ve flown with pilots that have served federal time for flying while intoxicated, made it through the HIMS program and returned to an airline cockpit. It’s better to recognize the problem before blowing positive on a random or for cause test but a positive test is not a career ending event in FAA land.

[Joe_K]

Just to be clear, I used the term "suspension of his flying permit " to describe permission to fly in French airspace to avoid circumlucations in translations and unnecessary verbiage. The French article simple reports a "ban ".

It is "suspension du titre aéronautique" in French, see the "Décret n° 2022-978 du 2 juillet 2022 relatif aux contrôles de l'alcoolémie et de l'usage de stupéfiants dans le domaine de l'aviation civile"