Lets fly for Vistajet?

[Out of Duty]

So it seems Vista is hiring again? I turned it down some time ago, and mates at Vista are planning on leaving.

Firstly they say the Financial Future of it is questionable, but that has its own PPRUNE thread.

There are a lot of interview questions and questions about working for Vistajet on the Financial Future thread, rather let's put the interview questions here. Whilst the market and conditions around Europe are constantly improving in favor of the pilots for the first time in a decade, Vista seems blind to the fact. Hell, even Wizzair is offering a sign-on bonus, a retention bonus of 25 000, 15 On /15 Off, 14 On /7 Off or 5 On / 5 Off.

PLEASE ANY ACTUAL PAST/CURRENT VISTAJET CREW CORRECT ME ON ANY OF THE BELOW:

Conditions:

17 On /13 Off: The crew is getting called out to work a day or two early, then getting home late in the evening on the day they are supposed to fly home. Many simply accept the early callouts because they are worried about being overlooked for an upgrade or losing out on their annual extra day's payout (see point 2) if they say no too often. Don't even think about part-time - many of the senior crew ask and are often denied this. Lets not even get on the idea that crew are asking for 15/15 as Flexjet offers.
The company says they pay extra if flying over X amount of days per year. That's true to a point, but they review your performance in all areas and then threaten to deduct what they will pay you for those extra days if, let's say, your Visas are not done on time, you don't submit hotel, taxi, refueling, airport handling receipts on time, if flight planning gives you a bad review, etc. So try calling in fatigued only to make planning unhappy a few times - let's see what happens to your yearly review.
Not everyone has the same Per Diems. Some crew earn 30 Euros in the world's most expensive destinations, whilst others might get 65 Euros, and no, it has nothing to do with seniority if you are a Captain, a First Officer, or a Cabin Crew member. The crew complained about this over a few meetings only to be told "We're working on it," or "Per Diems are not there to cover all your food costs whilst away from home." Try 36 Euros in New York for an entire day.
On the note of Food, you get no food, i.e. no crew meals. Try flying a 13-hour duty day five days in a row, hoping the passengers won't eat everything so you yourself can eat their leftovers (if they ordered any food at all) only to land late at night in places where the hotel food is now closed, and you aren't able to walk to the shops if there are any. Also, if there are any, it's probably your first time. So instead of resting, you are running around trying to find someplace to just get a basic human need, food. It's not like Ryanair, where you at least return to base and have food at home after a long day at work.
Let's talk Duty. Some crew tell me there are times when crew are close to or beyond their duty limits, be it rest or actual duty but can fly Private rather than Commercial right? I'm not so sure, but apparently, Vista does this. Be prepared to be asked on the odd occasion to make your flight a private one for the owner or his daughter because management is too scared to say no. If you say no, well again...good luck with any upgrades or future at Vista. 4 legs might become 5 or your min rest might have a new definition of minimum rest.
If you call in fatigued the day before, I'm told that Vistajet will call it sick leave instead. They want you to give them advanced warning that you are starting to be fatigued. This makes sense in a normal operation. However, most crew don't call in fatigued as an advanced warning because they can see on their roster over the next two days they have only two flights and then a 36-hour break. When in reality, however, their two flights over the next two days suddenly become three/four flights, and the break is removed from the plan if it's not mandatory, which suddenly becomes another 4 flights.
On the note of talking about breaks, everyone I know at Vista tells me that they only find out they had their 36-hour break/rest period after it has already happened in many cases. So how can you rest if you don't know whether you are on proper rest or not? Is that legal? Apparently, it is/was in their OM that says they can do that.
So you want to fly the Global on a 12-hour flight – Vista fleet has no proper crew rest bed. It has a chair that doesn't go all the way back. If the pax have too many bags, guess where the crew bags go? Behind the reclining chair. The Global 7500 - does up to 15-hour flights with a bench chair, which is in the open kitchen. So you must try to sleep while the cabin crew prepares things for the pax or if you are a gentleman sleep on the floor and let the Cabin Crew sleep on the bench chair.
So you need to catch an airline a day or sometimes two days early to help the company out to Nigeria, Tokyo, Chile - what about business class? No, if the cost is over X amount (which is quite low apparently) it's a simple no. Also, don’t forget, Vistajet books tickets a day or two before, so the tickets will almost never be low enough in price for an upgrade. Netjets and Flexjet offer business automatically on any proceeding flight over 6 hours. Vista doesn't - it's one of the many reasons already mentioned, that many crew are applying to Flexjet.
So you want to be a TRI/TRE, expect to work on your days off. With no vacation days allowed at Vista.
You get no leave at all. It's 17/13, the leave they mention in your contract is just to make it legal. They force leave on you every month during your 13 days off.
Again 17/13 – well your simulator training, your in-house CRM, Fire Fighting - those are all done in Malta on your 13 days off.
Remember Point 2? The part about having to pay for hotels, aircraft refueling, taxis, etc. When you get something wrong on the receipt, maybe the company address, or VAT number, it's not scanned properly, accounting hounds you on your days off to contact hotels to try to get a new receipt.
Remember point 4? Many FOs are leaving to Ryanair, but not only because they aren't being upgraded, not only because they don't get food after a long day of flying, but very simply because the pay is better. Does that not say something to you?
Many crew, I’m told, are planning to leave for Flexjet - Something like 25, is what I'm told. Why? Well, look at the pay comparisons.

Salary Comparisons per year:

Keep in mind, for the airline boys and girls before looking at the salaries, take note that, unlike at an airline, you arrive/leave between one and a half hours up to two hours before & after a flight on private jets. Sometimes 3 hours after a flight if flying the Global. Why? Well, you need to check up on the catering (has it arrived, is it the correct catering), put the covers on / take them off, put in/remove the pins, clean the cabin, sort out the beds, vacuum, polish the wood (not your wood), polish the stairs, sort out the laundry, refill the water yourself, load your own bags, load the passengers' bags when they arrive, download maintenance information on the company laptop to be uploaded to the outlying technicians, download flight data reports directly from the aircraft and upload it to the safety department, download and then upload the latest FMS cycles, charts for the plane and iPads - do it again if it didn’t work the first time (takes 40 minutes), put the engine covers on in winter / desert ops, remove all the alcohol in winter so it doesn’t freeze overnight, check the engine oil, and if need be, get on the ladder, top up the oil yourself, and if in doing so, you ruin your shirt, ask Vista for a new one but pay for it if it hasn’t been 2 years already. That’s just some of the things I can recall from the Vista crew. Also, don’t forget on your 36-hour rest period, you will go shopping to restock the plane with things like Coca-Cola, run around trying to find very specific wines, polish, wet wipes, etc.

Captains:

50k less than Netjets Europe (and that’s being conservative)
35k less than Ryanair/Lauda/Flexjet/DHL
Wizzair and Avion Express pay more but not quite certain just how much more.
Keep in mind Flexjet might be private, but their crew get business class, crew meals, 75 Per Diems no matter what base you are at & 70 on the company card for dinner.

First Officers:

30k less than Netjets Europe
25k less than Ryanair/Lauda/Flexjet
Keep in mind Flexjet might be private, but their crew gets business class, crew meals, 75 Per Diems no matter what base you are at & 70 on the company card for dinner. Vista still pays some of the crew 30 Euros Per Diems and wonders why the crew is leaving.
A Netjets FO recently earned 160k last year because of all their incentives for extra work, extra work over the summer, etc.
Ryanair even offers x Amount of Airport parking per year. Vistajet was asked by the crew but got told no.

[Boabity]

Mate, I really take exception to 4 and 5. You'll be doing a lot of damage by saying it, especially when my experience says it's not true, The people that work in the cabin are largely great and extremely hard working. They look after the flight deck and always make sure they're fed and watered to the best of their ability.
There's a few that aren't but 99 out of 100 are amazing and reading that their colleagues are saying that on a public forum would be hugely hurtful and unfair.

[Out of Duty]

No worries, it's been removed if it offends. It was a common complaint, but I stand corrected if that's wrong.

Is anything else, not quite up to par there? These are points gathered after the odd night or two, in the same hotel as Vista over a beer. So there's a strong chance what I was told is over the top, hence the request for Vista people to correct this, or the beer brought out what the crew really felt about the company, you tell me? :8

[Boabity]

Nah everything there is about right and pretty much sums up why I left 😂. You do have to spend hours preparing the aircraft though and always help clean and polish the cabin at the end of the day.
The cabin crew guys get treated like slaves, FTLs are kind of maintained for them only in so far as it’s convenient.
Those 2 hours before and 2 hours at the start and end of the day, they’re magically 45 mins and 30 mins in the books when it comes to FTLs. A max duty on the global is 18 hours but add another 4 on for what you’ll actually work and take 4 off from the following rest period.

[Thioda]

What really surprises me is how training and travel in your off days is accepted.
That sh1t can’t be legal and it will take another crash before the investigation board will kick down the open door and say that’s not ok.
Why do CAAs and work inspections not investigate and ban/fine these practices before?
Not to forget this is forged competition in the market.

[Runway Change]

Does Vista at least offer Productive Pay like Netjets, or Block Hour & Sector pay like most other companies of a similar size?

So you pay for your hotels, that's normal in a corporate environment, bloody annoying by the sounds of things. Do you can at least get air miles such as Avion points on the company card when paying for things. I've heard of other companies doing that?

[Setting]

What happened to the massive new post about VJ published yesterday? Was it too honest and had to be taken down by moderator or on request by VJ management?

-----Disregard comment. It came back again.

[frenchfries4u]

It must be said

[EatMyShorts!]

What happened to the massive new post about VJ published yesterday? Was it too honest and had to be taken down by moderator or on request by VJ management?

-----Disregard comment. It came back again.
It is gone again, at least I cannot see it. Is VJ management threatening PPRUNE? Well, we got a full copy of the post. If anyone is interested, I can provide it by private message.

[Senior Pilot]

What happened to the massive new post about VJ published yesterday? Was it too honest and had to be taken down by moderator or on request by VJ management?

-----Disregard comment. It came back again.

It is gone again, at least I cannot see it. Is VJ management threatening PPRUNE? Well, we got a full copy of the post. If anyone is interested, I can provide it by private message.

When the pair of you have had enough of conspiracy theories, it was deleted by the OP (Original Poster).

Nothing to do with VJ, PPRuNE or the Full Moon 🤔😂

[EatMyShorts!]

When the pair of you have had enough of conspiracy theories, it was deleted by the OP (Original Poster).

Nothing to do with VJ, PPRuNE or the Full Moon 🤔😂
If you say so! Probably some pressure was put on the OP and he removed it. Most of the content was quite accurate from what I hear from former VJ-crew.

[Boabity]

If you say so! Probably some pressure was put on the OP and he removed it. Most of the content was quite accurate from what I hear from former VJ-crew.

it wasn’t miles off a few things weren’t right. Clearly a tired and bitter employee who has probably had a decent sleep and thought better of it in case it got back.

[EatMyShorts!]

it wasn’t miles off a few things weren’t right. Clearly a tired and bitter employee who has probably had a decent sleep and thought better of it in case it got back.
Well, I wondered when he wrote that he was a VJ-pilot for nearly decade. If it sooooooo bad, why hasn't he left? Maybe he has and that's why he wrote the text? I hope for him that he has found a better employer, quite a few VJ-colleagues are now with us, especially FAs.

[Globally Challenged]

Well, I wondered when he wrote that he was a VJ-pilot for nearly decade. If it sooooooo bad, why hasn't he left? Maybe he has and that's why he wrote the text? I hope for him that he has found a better employer, quite a few VJ-colleagues are now with us, especially FAs.

My thoughts exactly.

[Boabity]

Well, I wondered when he wrote that he was a VJ-pilot for nearly decade. If it sooooooo bad, why hasn't he left? Maybe he has and that's why he wrote the text? I hope for him that he has found a better employer, quite a few VJ-colleagues are now with us, especially FAs.
That's assuming it's easy enough to find a job that is adequate to replace your work at VJ.
You still have to find the right job, that allows you to be settled with family. Most private operations are looking for people rated on a specific type who're willing to relocate and be permanently available or work 2 months on 1 month off (or some other arrangement that is 2on:1off, get no holiday, train in your off time and also be responsible for the whole show. Combined with the constant threat of losing your job because owner doesn't like you any more/owner has been caught by the authorities/owner has replaced the plane/you had to say no to something they don't agree with and while VJs attitude to fatigue and FTLs are famously iffy - there's heaps of other charter operations that are as bad if not worse.
It's not as simple as TF is famously quoted as telling the crew "if you don't like it you can leave", the folks there still have to put food on the table.

All that being said, knowing how hard they work for how little compensation vs outside, the equation ain't balanced and it's very surprising that more people don't jump off the train.
I'm quite certain that both Flexjet and NJE have had a large number of enquiries from VJ employees, so I have to wonder why so few are hired.

[EatMyShorts!]

Well, the market for biz jobs has been wide open for the last 24 months. Airlines are hiring like crazy as well. Maybe even relocate to the US and take up a job there (employers will apply for your Green Card). Of course VJ is not at the bottom of the list of operators, I think we are all well aware of all the cowboy outfits.

From what I have heard, many VJ crew failed at the simulator screening stage. Don't ask me why or what exactly, I do not know any details. Maybe some candidates can shed some light on this.

I do hope that VJ can stabilize and get onto the right track, so their crew can also finally benefit for their hard work. I personally would not be able to do that roster and all those longhaul flights.

[ATOguy]

What really surprises me is how training and travel in your off days is accepted.
That sh1t can’t be legal and it will take another crash before the investigation board will kick down the open door and say that’s not ok.
Why do CAAs and work inspections not investigate and ban/fine these practices before?
Not to forget this is forged competition in the market.
I have no time for VJ as an employer, they are in the same category as Ryanair and I would never consider working for them. But you don’t do your argument any favours by coming out with nonsense like this.
You are not training and travelling on your days off. Those are work days as per your contract, and if you add up the number of days you work in a year on this arrangement it is less than the number worked by someone with a full time job. Which makes it hard for people with a full time job to sympathise.

[Vulka]

2023 in Europe;Simply horrifying!

Origins 1838The strike was influenced by the Chartist movement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartist_movement) – a mass working class movement from 1838–1848.[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_general_strike#cite_note-BTUP-2) After the second Chartist Petition was presented to Parliament in May 1842, Stalybridge (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalybridge) contributed 10,000 signatures. After the rejection of the petition the first general strike began in the coal mines of Staffordshire. The second phase of the strike originated in Stalybridge.[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_general_strike#cite_note-Plug_Plot-3)
Civil unrestA movement of resistance to the imposition of wage cuts in the mills, also known as the "Plug Riots", it spread to involve nearly half a million workers throughout Britain and represented the biggest single exercise of working class strength in nineteenth-century Britain.

On 13 August 1842, there was a strike at Bayley's cotton mill in Stalybridge, and roving groups of workers carried the stoppage (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_action)first to the whole area of Stalybridge and Ashton (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton-under-Lyne), then to Manchester, and subsequently to towns adjacent to Manchester including Preston, using as much force as was necessary to bring mills to a standstill. The Preston Strike of 1842 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Strike_of_1842) resulted in a riot where four men were shot on 13 August at Lune Street. The West Riding of Yorkshire saw disturbances at Bradford (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford), Huddersfield (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield) and Hunslet (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunslet). At least six people died in a riot at Halifax.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_general_strike#cite_note-Halifax_1842:_A_Year_of_Crisis-4)

[wondering]

I have no time for VJ as an employer, they are in the same category as Ryanair and I would never consider working for them. But you don’t do your argument any favours by coming out with nonsense like this.
You are not training and travelling on your days off. Those are work days as per your contract, and if you add up the number of days you work in a year on this arrangement it is less than the number worked by someone with a full time job. Which makes it hard for people with a full time job to sympathise.

What those full time employees never realize. They are not gone from home at least 17 days every 30 days. They sleep most nights at home with their family. Weekends and bank holidays are off days -> quality family time. How many family events do full time employees miss compared to VJ pilots?

How many days are VJ crews gone in total on average? 19 a month including training etc? That's 456 hours. How does that compare to a full time employee with an 8 hour day? Who is more hours away from home even if you ad commuting time?

[733driver]

I have no time for VJ as an employer, they are in the same category as Ryanair and I would never consider working for them. But you don’t do your argument any favours by coming out with nonsense like this.
You are not training and travelling on your days off. Those are work days as per your contract, and if you add up the number of days you work in a year on this arrangement it is less than the number worked by someone with a full time job. Which makes it hard for people with a full time job to sympathise.

I'm not so sure about that. A regular worker with a five day work week works 260 days minus 30 days vacation depending on country minus public holidays. That results in about 220 days at work. I understand at Vista one works about 12 times 17 days plus training and no additional vacation. Is that correct? If so then I estimate about the same as the 220 days mentioned above. Maybe a few days less. But at Vista you are away from friends, family and regular activities for 17 days every time you go to work. I find it very easy to sympathize. In fact I'm shocked they get enough people to sign up for this. And it doesn't even pay well. Certainly not compared to NetJets or a good airline

[camel toe]

1) Yep. Crew do get asked to go a day or two early. I’ve done it a few times recently as I fancied proceeding far away to operate in a new area. Both times I got home a day early. You make it sound like we have too - we don’t. It’s a request.

2) deffo get paid the extra days. I get my visas done and submit expenses on time - it’s not difficult.

3) not sure but “per diems” definitely aren’t enough in some places, but more than enough in others. I’m “up on the deal” every month ie I haven’t spent all of my per diems each month. I eat out and eat well.

4) We do get crew food but not every time. No dramas, my former life was a loco regional where we got nothing ever. I have no issue buying a nice poke bowl etc

5) never been asked to fly private. We have refused plenty of flights which are “on paper” legal, but we have made a decision that it’s not sensible. I’ve NEVER had kick back for refusing a duty. I definitely DID in my former loco.

6) not experienced that.

7) not my experience.

8) I have no issue sleeping in the crew rest area. It’s quite short but that’s a design feature of Bombardier. It’s approved by EASA and FAA. So can’t pin that on VJ. I can have it flat if I want it. Sometimes I don’t. Augmented flights are hard on the body for sure. But the rest area is adequate.

9) correct about business class. This is all explained at interview though. Sometimes we get it sometimes we don’t.

10) Not true for the TRI’s I know. I flew with one a few months ago and he did a few days flying and then went to the sim to teach. So not on his days off. Maybe true for some though.

11) 17/13 fully explained at interview. Including sim on your days off. So think carefully.

For me it works brilliantly. My previous loco was far more disruptive and interfered far more with family life.

13) They do need receipts done correctly. Plenty of time to sort it on your days ON. I have NEVER been contacted on my days off. That part is brilliant.

14) You can certainly earn more elsewhere.

I personally thoroughly enjoy VJ. Lots of crew have been here a long time. We have great training, a sound SMS and we have a lot of fun and laughs down route.

Hard work? Oh yes.
Better jobs around? For sure
Worse jobs around? For sure

2 days before I start again I get quite excited and am really looking forward to it. That says a lot I think. I’ve never looked forward to flying as much as I do with this job. Day 15 though and I’m ready to go home. I get home and it’s great, work phone goes off and I completely switch off.

[megan]

Great to hear of someone who is a happy pigeon in the loft he has adopted camel, I swear some folk on winning the lottery would complain of the colour ink used on the cheque.

[Flyer83PT]

Long time reader, first time posting.
I have been invited to the assessment in Berlim.
Most of what is written isn´t very favourable towards Vistajet, but still i wanna give them a chance and listen to what they have to say in person.
So far i know that the rotations are 17/13, with vacations, training and everything else being during the off days.
The salary is around 45K.
What are the per diems exactly? Does it change according to the fleet or where you are flying too?
Do you have any kind of penson scheme contribution, any loss of licence or medical insurance or is it something you will have to take care on your own, deducting from your salary?
How does it work regarding medical license renewals? Do you go wherever you want and present the invoice to the company, or it is up to you to pay for it?
Do you get pay from day one, when you start you type rating, or only when starting the line training?
Any chance of catching a ride on non revenue flights?
Thanks in advance

[Thioda]

I have no time for VJ as an employer, they are in the same category as Ryanair and I would never consider working for them. But you don’t do your argument any favours by coming out with nonsense like this.
You are not training and travelling on your days off. Those are work days as per your contract, and if you add up the number of days you work in a year on this arrangement it is less than the number worked by someone with a full time job. Which makes it hard for people with a full time job to sympathise.

What argument? Because it is a fact.
I have ex colleagues who work at Vista and ex Vista employees who are at my current company.
Both confirmed that it does happen at Vista, positioning in your off days at times (and you are expected to say yes) and definitely the training in your off days.
Let’s not even go into the creative FTL situation….

I don’t give a rats ass what “a full time employee” thinks.
This is not about sympathy. It’s about cold facts, affecting safety and affecting honest competition.
Work days alone don’t define full time. Time away from home, as others above very accurately wrote, is just as important a factor in work.

[zuluzuluzulu]

There is truth in most everything that I have seen written, at least to some amount .

to be clear, you proceed early twice a year to give you an 18 day rotation (proceed on day 13 of your off days) . You bid for these at the end of the year for the next year and they are based on seniority. It’s to you when you choose them but outside these days ( which are mandatory) you don’t have to do extra even if they ask you.

Iccasionally you will get home standby by getting home a day or two early or even starting a day or two late. On average you will probably be away from home for about 205-210 days per year, some years more and some years less . That may or may not work for you.

there are lots of downsides, but there are some upsides. You have to consider the fact that not everyone lives 15 minute away from a major airport with good quality and high paying airlines . If you live two hours away and do not want to move your whole life and family to be near an airport you are limited to a handful of operators. If you can’t get into Netjets you become even more limited.

[camel toe]

Interesting that you don’t give a “rats ass” what a full time employee thinks.

I am a full time employee and the job is fine. For me personally I actually enjoy it. Yes we train during the 13 off days but it’s all explained prior to signing the contract.

Nobody is held down and forced to agree to the terms, which (for me anyway) were made VERY clear at interview.

Yes I do sometimes get asked to go a day early, I’ve said “no” and I’ve said “yes”. It’s been my choice. Personally nobody has come to my house and dragged me from my home a day early. On many of those duties when I’ve said “yes”, I’ve got home a day early too - wonderful stuff.

I’ve been with crew where we’ve refused a duty as we were pretty knackered - zero kick back, just a polite message saying “hope you all get some good rest and thanks for letting us know”.

I’m not saying your “friends” experience is different, but this is first hand “MY” experience.

I have the best work/home balance I’ve ever had, I’ve been flying for 15 years with a mixture of loco airline and biz jet.

[TheAirMission]

Yes we train during the 13 off days but it’s all explained prior to signing the contract.

Nobody is held down and forced to agree to the terms, which (for me anyway) were made VERY clear at interview.



Read the second sentence you wrote, then read the first one.. :ok:

[camel toe]

Ok I have. I’m not native English speaker so can you explain.

[TheAirMission]

Ok I have. I’m not native English speaker so can you explain.

Its contradictory to say " "nobody is held down and forced o agree to the terms" and then you say "its made clear to you before you sign the contract that you might do training on your days off" Which i guess means if you dont agree, you don't get the contract

[Vulka]

It’s simple I guess: You forced if you want the job!

AD 2023 DC

[camel toe]

Ok. I’ll have another go. Thanks for explaining.

So it’s not “might train on days off”, but it is”training on days off” - I’ve never trained during my 17 ON, always on the 13 OFF.

This is explained at interview. Therefore, like any job I guess, if that’s not for you then you don’t join.

So, yes, if you want your 13 OFF to always be 13, then it’s not the job for you. If you want extra days OFF then it’s not the job for you etc

And I totally appreciate it’s not for everyone. But I had no surprises after joining, it’s “as described”. And I really enjoy it.

I know my days on/days off until Q3 next year, which makes it great for planning vacations etc.

[EatMyShorts!]

Yeah, 10 to maximum 13 days of vacation, great success!! Here I take 5 or 6 weeks off in a row...

[camel toe]

Yeah, 10 to maximum 13 days of vacation, great success!! Here I take 5 or 6 weeks off in a row...

And that’s great for you, genuinely very pleased, sounds like you have a great thing going.

For me, this works well and I’m happy, content and really really enjoy the flying, the aircraft and the people.

I’m someone that likes a week vacation here and there, a few long weekends dotted about. But for sure, if you like 5/6 weeks off, then it wouldn’t work.

[camel toe]

It’s simple I guess: You forced if you want the job!

AD 2023 DC

yes, but is that not the case for most jobs?

[Vulka]

Camel toe; I can’t believe what I m reading , this attitude are destroying our profession and dignity!
Saddest thing you and many others are not aware!

keep going like this and the next will be; “ we offer you 27 days on and 3 off, of course training during your off 😉😂”
somebody like you will say yes and thanks for your clarity and honesty ! I really enjoy!

We are going back in labours condition ! Simply horrifying.

[Globally Challenged]

Camel toe; I can’t believe what I m reading , this attitude are destroying our profession and dignity!
Saddest thing you and many others are not aware!

keep going like this and the next will be; “ we offer you 27 days on and 3 off, of course training during your off 😉😂”
somebody like you will say yes and thanks for your clarity and honesty ! I really enjoy!

We are going back in labours condition ! Simply horrifying.

To be fair - the vista terms have been this way for years and like Ryanair, if you go in with your eyes open at the beginning then nobody gets hurt.

(but it’s defo not for me and I like where Eat My Shorts and I fly 😜)

[happyjack]

Try all traning on minimal days off and then finding you have also been scheduled days in the sim to be sim buddie for your colleague on off days? Or to line train others? And not even being asked, just last minute rostered. And then penalised for refusing??? There are some really crap employers out there and I found most of them!

[camel toe]

Camel toe; I can’t believe what I m reading , this attitude are destroying our profession and dignity!
Saddest thing you and many others are not aware!

keep going like this and the next will be; “ we offer you 27 days on and 3 off, of course training during your off 😉😂”
somebody like you will say yes and thanks for your clarity and honesty ! I really enjoy!

We are going back in labours condition ! Simply horrifying.

For me it’s far far better than I had for my previous “owner” job, and far more stable, less flying and less fatigue than the loco I worked for.

So yes I have accepted these terms, my alternatives were worse in many aspects. So in my experience it’s an improvement on what I’ve had before.

These T&C’s have been the same for at least 7 years, so whilst there hasn’t been an improvement there hasn’t been a reduction. And like I said it’s the best I’ve encountered so far in my career.

[Vulka]

The point is not which is the worse between Ryan or VJ or whatever Airline in Europe, the point is, in my opinion, try all to recover dignity for these job while the multimilionarie entrepreneurs play the game$$$

I don’t know your profile and Is not my intention to criticise your choices, far from me, I m talking in general.
Is absolutely acceptable from low hours or cadet accept any conditions and Blackmail for start(with union’s complaisance) but not from experienced people and more what the European Union is doing, if we have one?

good luck Camel and all the best sincerely.

[binzer]

Yeah, 10 to maximum 13 days of vacation, great success!! Here I take 5 or 6 weeks off in a row...


really!,,,,,, how about expanding a bit more on that.

[camel toe]

The point is not which is the worse between Ryan or VJ or whatever Airline in Europe, the point is, in my opinion, try all to recover dignity for these job while the multimilionarie entrepreneurs play the game$$$

I don’t know your profile and Is not my intention to criticise your choices, far from me, I m talking in general.
Is absolutely acceptable from low hours or cadet accept any conditions and Blackmail for start(with union’s complaisance) but not from experienced people and more what the European Union is doing, if we have one?

good luck Camel and all the best sincerely.

Thank you sir, no hard feelings from me, we are all in the same business and I wish everyone success.

What’s truly great for me is we can live in our lovely home, the kids are happy at school. There are no jobs at my local airport, the loco job was a bit of a drive and I’m not going back to that. I would get called on days off, last minute shift changes and low salary - I left for better T&C’s and I got it. We can’t all be “at the top of the food chain”.

So if I dug my heels in and insisted on “even better terms” I would have to up root the family to near a major city. That would not be great for the family.

I personally feel I’m on a great gig. I really enjoy it. I’m happy and my family are happy.

[Globally Challenged]

really!,,,,,, how about expanding a bit more on that.

There is a whole thread on NetJets with our T&Cs etc

[highfly84]

I signed up here to post my opinion regarding the Air Hamburg takeover. Here Vista completely destroyed a really cool flight operation with a good atmosphere. A reporting culture is being introduced more and more, fleet chiefs are putting a lot of pressure on pilots and functioning systems are being abolished for no reason. We don't have 17/13 yet. But everyone is sure that it will come. And those who can and are lucky look for a new job. There must have been 30 people quitting already.

[BearingFail]

Hey!

Has anyone recently had an interview at VistaJet to work for Air Hamburg? If so, what kind of roster was offered?

Cheers!

[Klimax]

I signed up here to post my opinion regarding the Air Hamburg takeover. Here Vista completely destroyed a really cool flight operation with a good atmosphere. A reporting culture is being introduced more and more, fleet chiefs are putting a lot of pressure on pilots and functioning systems are being abolished for no reason. We don't have 17/13 yet. But everyone is sure that it will come. And those who can and are lucky look for a new job. There must have been 30 people quitting already.

Wow. What a successful take over! Where did pilots go?

[His dudeness]

Wow. What a successful take over! Where did pilots go?

The one I know went to a freight airline.

[falcon10]

Ran into some pax the other day waiting 8 hours in the FBO for a recovery plane due to AOG. They said this was the 4th consecutive time they had a VJ or AH jet go AOG and leave them stranded with no recovery plan.

[Son of a Beech]

Meanwhile at Flexjet

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/BOMBARDIER-INC-1409153/news/FLEXJET-NAMED-ONE-OF-NORTHEAST-OHIO-S-BEST-PLACES-TO-WORK-FOR-THE-20TH-YEAR-NorthCoast-99-Platinum-44965725/

[Thioda]

Interesting that you don’t give a “rats ass” what a full time employee thinks.

I am a full time employee and the job is fine. For me personally I actually enjoy it. Yes we train during the 13 off days but it’s all explained prior to signing the contract.

No mate you misunderstood my post.
I was responding to ATOguy, who said that we as pilots who are away a lot in general shouldn’t complain since we work far less than a generic full time person.
My response was that I disgree with that reasoning.

[busybee11]

Vistajet has an interesting way to apply FTL.....

[railjet]

Vistajet has an interesting way to apply FTL.....
could you elaborate more?

[wondering]

In case you wonder what Vista US pilots are pulling in.

CPT:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/16926.html

F/O:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/18254.html

[FlyTCI]

In case you wonder what Vista US pilots are pulling in.

CPT:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/16926.html

F/O:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/18254.html
Thar may look good to EU based pilots, but the truth is that it is still well below the going rate in the US and they are now trying to lure over Oztronauts just to keep their planes flying.

[josephfeatherweight]

I’m an Oztronaut. How do I get some more info about their “luring”???

[FlyTCI]

I’m an Oztronaut. How do I get some more info about their “luring”???
If you are willing to sell your soul, have at it.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1653/5cb4e793_4cc8_476e_a7ef_1fa1d8ce45ca_b3e310575346377e7d4ccfc 9b5aaeddc2473540c.jpeg

[Interstellar77]

Hey
is the pay scale on pilot jobs network correct? Is it includes the different type of bonus?
on ppjn is not very clear .

[EatMyShorts!]

Rather try one of the US airlines, they will treat you better and pay more.

[FlyTCI]

Rather try one of the US airlines, they will treat you better and pay more.
No doubt, hence my comment about it being below the going rate in the US. However, no majors are offering Ozzies (or anyone else) assistance getting the E3 visa, at least not yet. My feeling is that Vista will lose these pilots as soon as they can move on to greener pastures, but that may even be part of the plan as long as it keeps the turbines spinning with enough pilots in their seats.

[Klimax]

No doubt, hence my comment about it being below the going rate in the US. However, no majors are offering Ozzies (or anyone else) assistance getting the E3 visa, at least not yet. My feeling is that Vista will lose these pilots as soon as they can move on to greener pastures, but that may even be part of the plan as long as it keeps the turbines spinning with enough pilots in their seats.

Yes, this may work for a charter outfit, such a HastaLaVistaJet, but not the likes of NetJets US which seems to be loosing a lot of experienced pilots, being replaced with new faces and less experienced pilots (lower entry requirements than the past!).

[EatMyShorts!]

No doubt, hence my comment about it being below the going rate in the US. However, no majors are offering Ozzies (or anyone else) assistance getting the E3 visa, at least not yet. My feeling is that Vista will lose these pilots as soon as they can move on to greener pastures, but that may even be part of the plan as long as it keeps the turbines spinning with enough pilots in their seats.
Yes, correct. From what I understood, Aussies are able to join US regional carriers. This might be a more viable stepping stone to the US majors.

[Bizflight]

Wow. What a successful take over! Where did pilots go?

Some went to Condor, Eurowings or even Bizjet operator. Many more then 30 left. Only in April dozens left.
To be honest, Air Hamburg was never a good employer. Only for a certain amount of people who have been in the inner circle of the CEO and NPFO.
All the others, especially on the XLS+ fleet, have been treated bad.

The seniority was given by "how deep you can put your tonge in the ass of the management.
German speakers can check out "Kununu" and search for Vista Global (Air Hamburg).

But yes, now with Vista it got even worse.

[Klimax]

Some went to Condor, Eurowings or even Bizjet operator. Many more then 30 left. Only in April dozens left.
To be honest, Air Hamburg was never a good employer. Only for a certain amount of people who have been in the inner circle of the CEO and NPFO.
All the others, especially on the XLS+ fleet, have been treated bad.

The seniority was given by "how deep you can put your tonge in the ass of the management.
German speakers can check out "Kununu" and search for Vista Global (Air Hamburg).

But yes, now with Vista it got even worse.

Good with some insider information! Another one to avoid. The list gets longer (or shorter) every day. Achtung!

[pedromari]

Yeah, 10 to maximum 13 days of vacation, great success!! Here I take 5 or 6 weeks off in a row...
Wow, just to know, is that with any kind or reduction or part job like 90% or 80%? Or is it in a standard way? I don't remember when was my last time with more than 2 weeks in a row.

[EatMyShorts!]

Wow, just to know, is that with any kind or reduction or part job like 90% or 80%? Or is it in a standard way? I don't remember when was my last time with more than 2 weeks in a row.
Just a normal roster. When we request a block of 18 vacation days within a calendar month, the entire month will be off. With a bit of creative planning you can add another week or two to this vacation-block. But a complete month off is easily possible.

[binzer]

Just a normal roster. When we request a block of 18 vacation days within a calendar month, the entire month will be off. With a bit of creative planning you can add another week or two to this vacation-block. But a complete month off is easily possible.


well that’s a bit vague with the truth. During the summer period you can only bid 10 days. You may be able to extend that, but don’t make out having a whole month off is possible all the time.

[binzer]

There is a whole thread on NetJets with our T&Cs etc

yes and I have read them,,, during summer you can only bid 10 days.

[EatMyShorts!]

well that’s a bit vague with the truth. During the summer period you can only bid 10 days. You may be able to extend that, but don’t make out having a whole month off is possible all the time.
True, but it does not affect me personally as I never take vacation during the summer. No kids, no trouble.

[Klimax]

True, but it does not affect me personally as I never take vacation during the summer. No kids, no trouble.

But your colleague is correct in pointing out that detailed fact. And you´re correctly admitting that. Good to get facts on the table. I would agree with you, not necessarily a big deal - but it´s worth understanding the rosy picture as well as the limitation.

[EatMyShorts!]

But your colleague is correct in pointing out that detailed fact. And you´re correctly admitting that. Good to get facts on the table. I would agree with you, not necessarily a big deal - but it´s worth understanding the rosy picture as well as the limitation.
You are 100% right and my previous comment was a bit cheeky as well. There is no perfect company, no perfect contract. Everyone needs to know for himself what the most important things are.

[pedromari]

Just a normal roster. When we request a block of 18 vacation days within a calendar month, the entire month will be off. With a bit of creative planning you can add another week or two to this vacation-block. But a complete month off is easily possible.
Okay, I knew your conditions were good but I didn't know they were so good. I applied for NJ last year but I wasn't selected. I hope there are new chances in the future. I think it's a company that fits me well in many ways.

[Tempelore]

It is gone again, at least I cannot see it. Is VJ management threatening PPRUNE? Well, we got a full copy of the post. If anyone is interested, I can provide it by private message.

Yes please if possible still. Unable to send you a om. Need min of 3 post to achieve this 🙈