Beware if you carry a Leatherman in QLD…

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Warning for anyone interacting with police while wearing a multi-tool.
Got the equivalent of a ramp check driving my (ahem) slightly modified Hilux home a few weeks back and as I was raising the bonnet so Sgt. Reasonable could check the compliance plate, I was suddenly instructed, “Stop. Put your hands on the vehicle and don’t move.”
I beg your pardon?
”I said don’t move. put your hands on the vehicle and do not make any sudden movements.”
Upon complying, he removes my Leatherman multi-tool from its belt pouch and having saved the suburb from the impending stabbing rampage, the conversation progresses as follows;
”Why are you carrying a weapon in public?”
I’m not in public. I’m in my own vehicle on my way home.
”Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”
I’m not walking down the street, I’m in my own vehicle on the way home.
”Your vehicle is classed as a public place. A cowboy can’t go to the pub after work with his knife on his belt.”
(Obviously hasn’t been to a country pub lately.)
But I’m not going to the pub, I’m going straight home.
”Well it needs to be secured. If you get road raged and get out of your vehicle, you have a weapon at close hand. Any judge in QLD is going to convict you.”

What am I going to do, give them the world’s worst purple nurple with the pliers?
Gave up trying to reason with him at this stage. FFS…

[43Inches]

Security at airports now are hit and miss with Leathermans, many airlines clarified that they don't consider them tools of the trade anymore. (probably management don't want pilots with anymore sharp objects than they need when around them).

”Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”

Is there actually a law preventing that? I thought you were just not allowed the conceal knives or carry prohibited weapons, can't say I'd look twice if a butcher walked past carrying knives in a non aggressive manner. What about a Chef, or handyman with a truck full of saws and sharp things...

Some of this stuff just really smacks of very low intelligence interpreting bad laws.

[Squawk7700]

He’s absolutely correct by the letter of the law, however common sense should have prevailed and he should have realistically said nothing to you about it.

[aussieflyboy]

Based on what I saw at Brissie airport during Covid common sense in lacking amongst the QLD Police.

[HOVIS]

Is it illegal in Queensland to carry any blade in public or just one greater than a certain length. Most multi tools have a blade less than 3" long which is legal in many countries.
I tend to leave mine at work as it sets off the metal detector when going airside. 😁

[43Inches]

He’s absolutely correct by the letter of the law, however common sense should have prevailed and he should have realistically said nothing to you about it.

I just read through the Queensland police guidance on acceptable excuses for carrying a knife and;

​​​​​​​a person may carry a pen knife or swiss army knife for use for its normal utility purpose.

So the officer is not correct in accosting somebody for carrying a small utility blade by their own advice. Unless you said something stupid like you had the Leatherman for self defense instead of general use for repairs and stuff.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Have actually written to the QLD Police Commissioner’s office for a clarification on whether a Swiss Army Knife and Leatherman are regarded in the same light.

Based on what I saw at Brissie airport during Covid common sense in lacking amongst the QLD Police.

Try WA Police. One 757 Freighter crew was told the Captain could enter crew quarantine and leave on the outbound flight, the FO was told two weeks in isolation and the engineer was told entry was denied and get on the next flight out!

[Squawk7700]

I just read through the Queensland police guidance on acceptable excuses for carrying a knife and;



So the officer is not correct in accosting somebody for carrying a small utility blade by their own advice. Unless you said something stupid like you had the Leatherman for self defense instead of general use for repairs and stuff.

Carrying it outside your vehicle for no reason is not for the purpose for which the law allows.

The law is deliberately a little grey so that the officer can use their judgement without being specific. If it was casa it would be specific and would read more like this example:

1. You can carry a leather man if you satisfy parts a, b, c, d and or a and d
a. You are carrying the knife when employed wholly in one of the professions in section 2
b. You are carrying the leather man as required by your employer
c. You are not carrying fare paying passengers
d. The leather man is required to open canned food for your assistance dog

Then you need to research section 2 which is 2 pages further in.

As I was suggesting, the officer should have let it go.

This is why you say nothing when arrested, as the victim here could later state in court that the blade was required to cut a cable-tie which was hindering his ability to view the compliance plate on the Hilux.

[aroa]

7700. Nice one …
but you missed the CAsA classic preamble ..A person , he or she *commits an offence of strict liability if..
All followed by numerous pages of imaginary “unsafe” scenarios and confusing waffle.

* in bureaucratic speak those pronouns are now verboten and ‘ multi-persons’ or some other wording only allowed.

[43Inches]

Just wear leather hiking/work boots and claim the Leatherman is for fixing various clothing items you are wearing as they need. All you need to do is justify you are carrying it for a non combatant/stabby purpose. Just don't be stupid and carry the kit into restricted areas, like airports, on public transport or around schools etc... Unless your job requires you need the tool in those areas. As a GA pilot who is approved for pilot maintenance there is no problem carrying such a tool airside. Airlines will say otherwise as they don't want you chopping things on the aircraft, that being said a leatherman would have been useful on several occasions where we were almost grounded due to lockers jamming shut, and various other not really airworthiness things where a tool would help pry/cut open something. In those cases I was able to use my jail skills to create makeshift pointy things to do the same from readily available stuff. I guess the laws don't realize that criminals can be resourceful as well, after all they still manage to procure weapons and kill each other in the lockup. I'm surprised that Queensland hasn't banned coat hangers in public to cut down on car theft...

PS I have no issue with knife laws that stop kids (or anyone else) from carrying blades for the obvious use of harm to others. I can only assume that the police officer possibly thought you were holstering a flick knife or similar and not a pocket utility knife, and over reacted. But reality is someone could (and will) carry something else pointy for the same reasons, and you can't ban everything...or can you?

[Stationair8]

More importantly did the Hilux pass inspection by Queensland’s finest?

[India Four Two]

It's 40 years since I lived in Brissie. Please, someone tell me what's a compliance plate?

[Squawk7700]

It's 40 years since I lived in Brissie. Please, someone tell me what's a compliance plate?

Every vehicle has one, it has VIN, year of build, compliance date etc.

[jolihokistix]

It sounds from the first two or three paragraphs of your preamble above that something about your vehicle, and then you yourself got up the policeman’s nose, so he needed something/anything to book/warn you with, and the rest was history.

[TWT]

My Leatherman Wave has a knife blade as long as my index finger. Not something to dismiss.

[aroa]

Don’t read anything from the OP to wind up the Plod. Give some people a uniform and some power …and away they go.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.

[runway16]

One the airside I quite commonly carry a sharp folding knife. A leather Man or small folding knife. While I do not make an obvious showing I am prepared to argue the toss if bailed up by someone who claims authority. My explanation is that it is a tool of trade. There have been many cases of air accidents (and car accidents!) where the seat belt jams and has to be cut to get the body held free.
Ask any Paramedic.
If one looks at any post crash report it is often mentioned that a knife was or was not included in the pilots survival kit. On the person is better than in a bag that gets lost. The same applies to an ELT. Every survival kit list has a knife included close to the top of that list.
Ask Plod if he checks in his side arm when he leaves the police station to go across the road to the sandwich shop for a sandwich. Does he check in his side arm before he leaves the station? To the sandwich shop is off duty.
So you carry a Swiss Army pocket knife? Short blade. 3" ? If Plod wants to arrest you then he should be doing same to every Boy Scout in the country. How many times have you heard of a daytime bush walker or hiker who has nothing in the way of kit for self sustainment?
The key items are a knife, a fire lighting device and a jacket or like cover to stop hypothermia.
For a pilot working in a remote area a knife is a must. But be discreate about it.
Around the big smoke I leave my knife in my flight bag out of sight when I leave airside. If travelling by airline to a location I leave the knife in my check in bag.

I recall bumping into an ADF guy at the Avalon Air Show some years back. He had a folding knife hitched in his pocket. I noted that and asked to compare notes. His knife was the same as mine. He said that he had once been bailed up by Plod or like and asked what his justification for carrying a knife was? He replied that he had been in one or two air crashes and had had to cut people out of their jammed seat belts to free them The discussion with the asker finished there.
At the end of the day common sense should prevail.
Sometimes that lacks in some people who claim authority.

[Kulwin Park]

Way back yonder, about a week before 9/11, I was in in Newark going through security, heading back to Australia.
I forgot I had purchased my long awaited Leatherman tool, and was wearing it on my belt under my shirt. Going through security & it went off. As I patted myself down wondering what it was as you just wore belts back standard then, I realised, ad gave it to the security officer. He unfolded it, asked what it was, and didn't care. Just said put it in my carry on bag because the cabin crew provide cutlery LOL.
Times have changed!!!!

[Ixixly]

Don’t read anything from the OP to wind up the Plod. Give some people a uniform and some power …and away they go.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.

People rarely mention the part where they wind up the plod themselves or act like a plonker. Could be either way, the Officer could be power-tripping or OP could have decided to be a bit of a ******, perhaps both. From what I can see they've offered no reasonable reason why they were carrying the leatherman in the first place and the law is clear on carrying one and needing a purpose for it and their answers to the Officers' hypotheticals tell me that they were likely being pretty antagonistic and honestly from the way they talk about the incident it makes me feel pretty strongly that they were acting like a ****** from the get go. You're talking about a job where they often do get attacked during routine stops so they don't mess around and there are pretty good reasons you're not meant to just be carrying around a blade.

[lucille]

Remember the recent case where the cops tasered a 95 year old granny in a nursing home because she had a knife in her hands.

The OP should consider himself lucky that he wasn’t tasered by the cop. They appear to derive a perverse pleasure in watching people writhe in pain.

[Squawk7700]

You're talking about a job where they often do get attacked during routine stops

Me thinks you’ve been watching too many American movies!

[601]

Me thinks you’ve been watching too many American movies!
Nope, Australian news reports.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

More importantly did the Hilux pass inspection by Queensland’s finest?

Ah…no…

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/856x435/img_2835_a1d1ef712a5d3fd1b00b76be29f8ec060cd959bc.jpeg

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Latest Delelopment…
After making a written request to QLD Weapons Licensing, I received a confirmation that they would consider a Leatherman to be the same as a Swiss-Army Knife, ie. permitted to be carried for its Utility purpose (as long as I “wasn’t getting into mischief” while carrying it).

Also stated was the nice Sgt’s opinion that the Traffic Branch QPS member was being an “officious arsehole”. (Exact words.)

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

It sounds from the first two or three paragraphs of your preamble above that something about your vehicle, and then you yourself got up the policeman’s nose, so he needed something/anything to book/warn you with, and the rest was history.

Absolutely NOT. I have the utmost respect for what the police force has to do considering what they have to work with and as a licensed firearm owner, do not need to give them any reason to question whether I am a “fit and proper person” to be holding my license at my next renewal. Too many speeding tickets can be a reason to be denied in QLD. (And if I gave him a reason to really search the car, he may have found the K-Bar along with the skinning pack behind the back seat and that would’ve been enough reason to call in the Special Response Group, PolAir, have the Army on standby and lockdown the suburb for eight hours…)
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xesX492JE3C40aQ/giphy.gif

[thunderbird five]

From the original post:
Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”

They sure do in my town. We have a meatworks, and lots of Taiwanese workers who walk or cycle to work, and 100%, they all carry their personal tools of trade with them in rather obvious bags. I wouldn't want to be on the chopping block with any of those guys and girls! Do they get stopped and searched? Nope.

I'm glad the police officer stopped you from carrying out a terrorist attack with your leathrman. He should receive a bravery award and keys to the city.

[Rataxes]

Based on what I saw at Brissie airport during Covid common sense in lacking amongst the QLD Police.
To be fair to them, during that period common sense was lacking in the vast majority of the Australian population; almost the entire nation lost the ability to think critically so it seems a little unfair to label the cops, specifically, an industry which is often seen as dominated by dullards.

[Bosi72]

Or you can declare yourself as a member of Sikh community..
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-01/Quick-Guide--Sikh-Kirpan-v1.0.pdf

[Squawk7700]

Or you can declare yourself as a member of Sikh community..
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-01/Quick-Guide--Sikh-Kirpan-v1.0.pdf

That’s one of those things that if the general public became aware of it, there would be a lot of unhappy people out there. It seems crazy that they allow it. I can only assume that you can’t take one on an aircraft.

I’m sure “Religious observance” will result in stabbing someone in an altercation and “usually blunted” probably means sharpened in most cases:

[43Inches]

You'd have to be a practicing Sikh to get away with carrying a Kirpan. That entails far more than just carrying the blade. There was a debatable incident at a school recently regarding a Kirpan, not sure the kid involved was even a Sikh. In general Sikhs have controlled their stabbing urges well enough over many years to warrant it being allowed in public. Most likely because its a highly disciplined faith with very strict moral standards. Might be a good cultural exercise for some here to learn more about them.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

To be fair to them, during that period common sense was lacking in the vast majority of the Australian population; almost the entire nation lost the ability to think critically so it seems a little unfair to label the cops, specifically, an industry which is often seen as dominated by dullards.
To be even more fair to them, it wasn't them making the distinctions. They could only follow the directions of QLD Health. Now that was an organisation who's left hand didn't know what it's right was doing. And didn't care either. Because they were KEEPING US SAFE!! REMEMBER?? At least that was the usual response.

[43Inches]

To be even more fair to them, it wasn't them making the distinctions. They could only follow the directions of QLD Health. Now that was an organisation who's left hand didn't know what it's right was doing. And didn't care either. Because they were KEEPING US SAFE!! REMEMBER?? At least that was the usual response.

To be fair, to be fair, to be fair, QLD health really are not an agency that should ever have been put in direct control of the situation. They are really regulatory and advisory personnel and suddenly were told they were legally in charge of what happened during the Pandemic, of course the result will be an arse covering over-reaction. The premiers should have been making the decisions with consultation from the various agencies, instead it was quite clear they were dodging bullets by handing over the reigns to bureaucrats to take the fall later.

[FatPilot]

. Might be a good cultural exercise for some here to learn more about them.

why ? not planning on ever going to thier neck of the woods , got no interest in their culture ... no law says i have to.

if they want to come to my neck of the woods they can fit in and get with the local culture themselvs . starting with not carrying around some bs hidden knife on our streets.

don 't like it ? the airport 's that way.

[43Inches]

Never said you had to do anything, but learning about other cultures, ie educating yourself, stops you from making comments that make you look backwards and stupid on public forums. Pretty sure you wouldn't do **** if a Sikh walked into your 'neck of the woods' and would be quite polite to their face, because that's how online anonymous cowards are. Everyone around you would be telling you to head for the 'airport' if you did.

PS I'm not a Sikh, but have lived within communities where they also live, and they are fine people, as are most 'foreign' cultures if you get to know them.

As I said above you could stab someone with just about anything pointy, which is what shivs are. Knife bans are not to stop people carrying knives for legal purpose, its to enable police to remove knives from those carrying them for the purpose of harm to others.

[Squawk7700]

Maybe if you’d worked in law enforcement like some of us, your opinion may be quite different!

There are a lot of dodgy people out there and the average Joe blog that simply goes to and from work every day and goes out to dinner on a Saturday night will never come across them, until such time that something randomly happens.

To suggest that someone is level headed in a confrontation due to their religious beliefs/ upbringing is honestly laughable at best.

[FatPilot]

Never said you had to do anything, but learning about other cultures, ie educating yourself, stops you from making comments that make you look backwards and stupid on public forums. Pretty sure you wouldn't do **** if a Sikh walked into your 'neck of the woods' and would be quite polite to their face, because that's how online anonymous cowards are. Everyone around you would be telling you to head for the 'airport' if you did.yes you did , you droped a big hint you reckin people “ here” are in need of education to your standard of outlook. pretty arrogant . now your backing down on that and saying that ‘ s not what you said.

why would I do a **** if a sikh walked in ?? why do you think i have a beef with sichks ? head to the airport if I did what ? a ****? what are you talking about ?

the sihks are now allowed to take their knifes into SCHOOLS because they used our own courts to overturn our own laws . Id of just pointed them to the airport as they ‘re obvioussly not happy with what they found when they came here . Im happy with aus culture and don ‘t need someone else ‘s culture on top of it including kids carrying “ ceremonnial ” daggers ie edged weapons into schools . it's a violence culture . if I wanna see that I 'll go to india

people don 't hate sichks they hate a-holes who cause waves and push there own crap where it 's not wanted .

fit in or f off …. pretty simple concept... and nothing wrong with it despite what your trying but failing to do .

[43Inches]

I think you are very short on education fella, it's like oozing out of the screen. I guess with your attitude you don't fit in in Australia anymore, so I'm asking you to leave Australia now, you are no longer welcome, your type is the minority now, off to the airport you go. Maybe that's what you are afraid of, as the new immigrants move in, they might just take your attitude up and have you deported back to the old country. I'm pretty sure you're not aboriginal, so guess you will have to get on the next boat back to old' blighty or Ireland or wherever it is your family hailed from.

Oh, I just realized that the old country is full of Sikhs and such, oh, you are not going to have a fun time... they might ask you to leave there as well.

The biggest issue with the 'fit in or f'off' brigade is that they are the ones that most struggle to fit in with the majority of people.

Maybe if you’d worked in law enforcement like some of us, your opinion may be quite different!

There are a lot of dodgy people out there and the average Joe blog that simply goes to and from work every day and goes out to dinner on a Saturday night will never come across them, until such time that something randomly happens.

To suggest that someone is level headed in a confrontation due to their religious beliefs/ upbringing is honestly laughable at best.

Not sure what you are on about there, but half my family are coppers, the other half are on the other side of the law....

[prickly]

I recall the brouhaha after 9-11 when airline crew were losing their nail scissors at security and then finally making it to the cockpit where sat the nastiest crash axe ever made.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Jesus! How many lost fingers trying to cut their nails?

[Checkboard]

Have actually written to the QLD Police Commissioner’s office for a clarification on whether a Swiss Army Knife and Leatherman are regarded in the same light.

It needs to be a non-locking blade of less than three inches which cannot be opened by one hand. Then it will qualify.