Skytrans not happy about the competition

[CAVOK92]

The riff between Skytrans and Hinterland seems to be widening. Skytrans failed to apply for approved short field landing approval for their C208 operations in the straits and subsequently were stoped by CASA from operating into the strips. Since then approval has been obtained for all the strips bar the shortest Darnley and Mabuiag.



Hinterland seems to have obtained the required approval and been granted an emergency contract by the QLD Government to conduct scheduled air transport operations into Darnley and Mabuiag Island’s.



As one can imagine the upper echelons at Skytrans are not happy about this.



The chief pilot of Skytrans was whiteness boarding one of Hinterlands services to Mabuiag disguised as a tradesperson.

Word on the street is the CP has been heard saying “we are going to get these boys grounded”.

Looks like the management at JTs airline are throwing the toys out of the cot.

[aussieflyboy]

What’s the better company to work for? Who treats the Pilots better? Does PC from Broome still own Hinterland? Many Pilots sitting in the front of big jets around the world because of that gentleman.

Seems a bit rich to whinge about the competition when it was your organisation that made the error.

[Maddogyamaddog]

I know of a few people at each place definitely seems as far as the 208 Ops goes Hinterland has better pay and conditions.

What’s the better company to work for? Who treats the Pilots better? Does PC from Broome still own Hinterland? Many Pilots sitting in the front of big jets around the world because of that gentleman.

Seems a bit rich to whinge about the competition when it was your organisation that made the error.

[Maddogyamaddog]

I wonder if the HOFO used his real name? Or fake. If fake I would think it would be illegal.

[CAVOK92]

Only heard good things about working for PC and Hinterland.
Can’t comment about working for Skytrans but if they had their head in the sand about the new Part135 requirement I’m sure it says a lot about how it is being managed currently. Maybe the CP should keep his dress ups and take on being a tradie instead 😂.

[CAVOK92]

I wonder if the HOFO used his real name? Or fake. If fake I would think it would be illegal.

Good point MD, questionable intent from a key person is an organisation like that.

Sly tactics like that are normally an indication that things are getting desperate.

[cabzjet]

Skytrans apparently thinks it's necessary to dress up in disguises and resort to questionable measures. Seriously? How sad.

I have been following the Torres Strait story in the cairns post. There was a lot of finger pointing towards Casa and others in the news articles, meanwhile apparently Hinterland already had the approvals since last year!

competition is healthy and should be based on merit Perhaps it's time for Skytrans to focus on their own internal issues and address the root causes of their setbacks, rather than trying to shift blame onto others. After all, pointing fingers and engaging in covert operations won't get their planes off the ground or fix their management woes.

[dejapoo]

God in trouble with CARZA again?

is thick minee back?

[Capt Fathom]

The Cairns Post reported last week that this situation was resolved and Skytrans had regained all their approvals.

[Petropavlovsk]

Celebrity part owners do not guarantee success. The success of a company relies upon the staff and CASA compliance. If Head of flight Ops, Quality assurance, and the CEO/GM have dropped the ball; then failure results.

CASA's concern about operating into remote or shorter than normal airstrips is justified if the aircraft are operating outside the AFM performance charts. Likewise if the airstrips do not meet current regulations for RPT/CHT ops. (I'm NOT suggesting Skytrans are operating illegally)

The issue is poor leadership from management and Chief Pilot; the concerns are not new; it is an issue that been on the table for a fair while. Forget public media, the public has little or no idea about aircraft performance. It may also be suggested that the Underwriter has also dropped the ball and has not been conducting annual audits.

When a company's problems are aired in the public domain; it takes a long time to address any shortcomings.

[see_yous_latr]

From an ex Skytrans t&c: Skytrans flight ops manager went up to mabuiag to install a webcam so they can determine wet/dry runway, as wet runway is not possible on that length. He also said Hinterland appear to be ignoring the 135mos and the C208 POH re 50ft crossing height and landing on the keys or close to.

[chiefbuilder]

From an ex Skytrans t&c: Skytrans flight ops manager went up to mabuiag to install a webcam so they can determine wet/dry runway, as wet runway is not possible on that length. He also said Hinterland appear to be ignoring the 135mos and the C208 POH re 50ft crossing height and landing on the keys or close to.

The great thing about instruments of approval is that they allow for specific procedures to be granted, as long as there is an equivalent level of safety with additional controls put in place. The provisions in Part 135 MOS Chpt 10 are quite useful for an operator that knows how to interpret it correctly and can develop effective procedures and risk controls. The STOL Blackhawk 208 has been landing on MAA nice and short exactly as the 135 MOS and provisions allow for.

[Capt Fathom]

Skytrans flight ops manager went up to mabuiag to install a webcam so they can determine wet/dry runway
So that would have been the alleged Chief Pilot disguised as a tradie! https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Dry_Twotter]

From an ex Skytrans t&c: Skytrans flight ops manager went up to mabuiag to install a webcam so they can determine wet/dry runway, as wet runway is not possible on that length. He also said Hinterland appear to be ignoring the 135mos and the C208 POH re 50ft crossing height and landing on the keys or close to.

So the truth comes out :=. Sounds like Hinterland setting their guys up for failure…

[Maccamacpherson]

From an ex Skytrans t&c: Skytrans flight ops manager went up to mabuiag to install a webcam so they can determine wet/dry runway, as wet runway is not possible on that length. He also said Hinterland appear to be ignoring the 135mos and the C208 POH re 50ft crossing height and landing on the keys or close to.

Glad to hear the blue birds are landing nice and short on the short runways. I would be worried if they weren't touching down before the numbers!

Macca

[CAVOK92]

Glad to hear the blue birds are landing nice and short on the short runways. I would be worried if they weren't touching down before the numbers!

Macca
Spot on Macca, I don’t think people have an appreciation for the length of these runways.

[Mach E Avelli]

Glad to hear the blue birds are landing nice and short on the short runways. I would be worried if they weren't touching down before the numbers!

Macca
My thoughts exactly. A test pilot flying an exact airspeed, crossing the threshold at exactly 50 feet, slamming it on the ground and applying maximum braking gets the numbers into the AFM.
A bush pilot attempting the same stunt on a really short strip would quickly be unemployed.
It's not a bloody Boeing landing at Brisbane FFS.

[CAVOK92]

Those Blackhawk converted C208s look quite capable.

Maybe the issue is Skytrans never really read the Regs in the first place, hence the reason they got in trouble for not being compliant 12 month after Part 135 came in.

[Dry_Twotter]

My thoughts exactly. A test pilot flying an exact airspeed, crossing the threshold at exactly 50 feet, slamming it on the ground and applying maximum braking gets the numbers into the AFM.
A bush pilot attempting the same stunt on a really short strip would quickly be unemployed.
It's not a bloody Boeing landing at Brisbane FFS.

Hinterland GM and HOFO are brave boys thinking that their piece of paper gets them around the P135 and the C208 POH.

Probably something that you’d want to run by the punters in the back, wouldn’t you say?

[Maccamacpherson]

Hinterland GM and HOFO are brave boys thinking that their piece of paper gets them around the P135 and the C208 POH.

Probably something that you’d want to run by the punters in the back, wouldn’t you say?

unless you know exactly what’s on the approval or what the approved procedures are that’s a bit rich. Maybe the approval has considerations that the other operator has not even thought of?

Plenty of exemptions and approvals getting around the traps for interesting things that are completely safe and compliant.

[Cloudee]

So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.

[CAVOK92]

So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.

Maybe hinterland should request access to the footage. That way they know if their boys are doing as they should and touching down on the piano keys. Might even get some good footage of a skytrans machine overrunning after one of their high approaches.😂

[cabzjet]

Hinterland GM and HOFO are brave boys thinking that their piece of paper gets them around the P135 and the C208 POH.

Probably something that you’d want to run by the punters in the back, wouldn’t you say?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/811x270/screenshot_2023_07_15_113345_copy_292345dc7fc4d612a10e7497ba 5c35d64736e898.jpg

[Ixixly]

Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.

[aussieflyboy]

Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.

Must be hard for you to land on a dirt strip in the Kimberley or Territory champ.

[Mach E Avelli]

Yes, a Test Pilot does it and then those figures are adjusted for an average Pilot because of course they don't expect you to fly it like a Test Pilot. If you want to go landing on an Airstrip prior to the numbers on a section of ground that isn't part of the regular inspections required to approve that Airstrip, you go right ahead, but when you hit a hole that no one knew about don't be surprised when you're the one responsible.
Did someone suggest landing "on a section of ground" that presumably is off the airstrip?
No, what is suggested is that, on a really short strip, no bush pilot who wants to maximise the margins is going to waste valuable stopping distance by flying large air transport 50 ft heights at the threshold, then relying on maximum braking to compensate for being only average and maybe landing a bit longer than the test pilot did.
50 ft looks bloody high when you have only a few hundred metres to get down and stopped.
If we were to scale things down according to aircraft size and responsiveness, 15ft would probably feel right for most pilots and provide adequate clearance 'over the fence', but no, in aviation we often use arbitrary numbers because it's easier for the rule makers. The rule makers are not out there doing it in the weeds.

[Dry_Twotter]

The ignorance shown in this thread astounding. It certainly puts the Hinterland HOFO in the unenviable position of having to support his ill-advised GM [CAVOK92 + burners] who’s gone rouge on a pilot rumour network.

Some advice: you are attempting to push your way into the Torres Strait; a high skill, high intensity environment with several very experienced operators who, despite the local challenges, manage to keep the good people of the TS safe on a daily basis.

Rather than coming on here and telling us all we have no idea what we’re doing, perhaps a good place to start would be:

take a closer look at the Cessna Caravan POH and Part 135 to realise the legal risk you actually have chosen to adopt,
talk to some people who know something about short runways,
get some organic, ticket-based runs on the board, and;
Stop inventing rumours, avoid the temptation of congratulating yourself from your own account and adopt some humility.


At the end of the day this “opposition” you speak of may well be the people you’ll be thanking later for spotting you in the ocean.

[CAVOK92]

Iv never had someone try and name me on a forum before. Is that even in the rules?
Be rest assured that I am not associated with the blue shed, infact the only people I know around Cairns work in the red shed. Never the less I am just someone that is out of GA who is taking pleasure in listening to the scuttlebutt that is being thrown between an organisation that appears to have a full understanding of the new regulation and one that didn’t bother to read them, and when they (he) did still can’t see where they went wrong.

[Dry_Twotter]

The ignorance shown in this thread astounding. It certainly puts the Hinterland HOFO in the unenviable position of having to support his ill-advised GM [CAVOK92 + burners] who’s gone rouge on a pilot rumour network.

Some advice: you are attempting to push your way into the Torres Strait; a high skill, high intensity environment with several very experienced operators who, despite the local challenges, manage to keep the good people of the TS safe on a daily basis.

Rather than coming on here and telling us all we have no idea what we’re doing, perhaps a good place to start would be:

take a closer look at the Cessna Caravan POH and Part 135 to realise the legal risk you actually have chosen to adopt,
talk to some people who know something about short runways,
get some organic, ticket-based runs on the board, and;
Stop inventing rumours, avoid the temptation of congratulating yourself from your own account and adopt some humility.


At the end of the day this “opposition” you speak of may well be the people you’ll be thanking later for spotting you in the ocean.

Read again.

[43Inches]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ojt-zS5IaQ

I don't see what all the fuss is about, you just roll to a stop.

PS I don't think they crossed the threshold at 50ft, and that didn't look like touching down 300m into the runway. I also reckon that approach was a tad steeper than 3 degrees.

[Mach E Avelli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ojt-zS5IaQ

I don't see what all the fuss is about, you just roll to a stop.

PS I don't think they crossed the threshold at 50ft, and that didn't look like touching down 300m into the runway. I also reckon that approach was a tad steeper than 3 degrees.
Very nice; touched down on the numbers just beyond the piano keys. Slightly steep (about 4.5 degrees) approach works much better on short fields than the flat drag-it-in technique sometimes seen. Pilots confusing precautionary landings taught in some flight schools with serious short field techniques perhaps?
Oh and while I am on my soapbox, forget all about the Jacobsen flare and other theory like looking down the runway during the flare, particularly when you need to get it on early. Pick your touchdown spot and look at it. You go where you look. Of course look up during the rollout, but doing so too early always seems to prolong the touchdown.

[Mach E Avelli]

So could it be that cameras were installed to use in a campaign against a competitor rather than to check if the runway is wet? Pretty average behaviour if so.
How clever are these cameras? Can they differentiate between dry, damp and wet? Are they an approved method for determining runway condition?
Just asking.

[Left 270]

Only heard good things about working for PC and Hinterland.
Can’t comment about working for Skytrans but if they had their head in the sand about the new Part135 requirement I’m sure it says a lot about how it is being managed currently. Maybe the CP should keep his dress ups and take on being a tradie instead 😂.

You’ve not been around the right people I’d have to suggest, sure he has his fan club, but he’s as scummy as any of the operators I came across in GA.

[the_rookie]

You’ve not been around the right people I’d have to suggest, sure he has his fan club, but he’s as scummy as any of the operators I came across in GA.

Getting your super paid is a privilege and not a right apparently

[Mach E Avelli]

Getting your super paid is a privilege and not a right apparently
If so, here is a guaranteed way to get it up to date and not get sacked. Or if you do get sacked, have some fun with a wrongful dismissal case at no cost to you. If they claim redundancy is the reason, you can prevent them from subsequent hiring until you are reinstated.
First, if not already a member, join the AFAP. Yes, they are a bit weak in some areas, but they have excellent free legal help available for members.
Then put your employer on notice that they have 14 days to get your super up to date, or you will notify the ATO.
If they don’t pay on time send them a final warning.
If they cry poor or whatever, remind them that it’s your money and that you are not in the loans business. Tell them that you WILL be reporting them to the ATO.
Then DO IT, advising them that you have done so - this gives them one last opportunity to pay up and have you call off the wolves. It is important to be seen at every stage to have been transparent and reasonable. Of course some bosses will still brand you as Bolshevik, but they are just germs you sometimes find in this business.
Not only did this once work for me, I got the super plus interest, and ended up with a very compliant employer.
Pilots need to p!ss or get off the pot.

[43Inches]

If so, here is a guaranteed way to get it up to date and not get sacked. Or if you do get sacked, have some fun with a wrongful dismissal case at no cost to you. If they claim redundancy is the reason, you can prevent them from subsequent hiring until you are reinstated.
First, if not already a member, join the AFAP. Yes, they are a bit weak in some areas, but they have excellent free legal help available for members.
Then put your employer on notice that they have 14 days to get your super up to date, or you will notify the ATO.
If they don’t pay on time send them a final warning.
If they cry poor or whatever, remind them that it’s your money and that you are not in the loans business. Tell them that you WILL be reporting them to the ATO.
Then DO IT, advising them that you have done so - this gives them one last opportunity to pay up and have you call off the wolves. It is important to be seen at every stage to have been transparent and reasonable. Of course some bosses will still brand you as Bolshevik, but they are just germs you sometimes find in this business.
Not only did this once work for me, I got the super plus interest, and ended up with a very compliant employer.
Pilots need to p!ss or get off the pot.

Мир, хлеб и земля, Comrade!

[Mach E Avelli]

Мир, хлеб и земля, Comrade!
Ah yes, the last two I have. As for the first, unlikely we will ever achieve that...But thanks anyway.

[Lead Balloon]

A GM who's "gone rouge"? Once they start wearing make-up, it's a dead giveaway they've lost the plot.

[Cedrik]

A GM who's "gone rouge"? Once they start wearing make-up, it's a dead giveaway they've lost the plot.
:8 :D

[Cedrik]

Very nice; touched down on the numbers just beyond the piano keys. Slightly steep (about 4.5 degrees) approach works much better on short fields than the flat drag-it-in technique sometimes seen. Pilots confusing precautionary landings taught in some flight schools with serious short field techniques perhaps?
Oh and while I am on my soapbox, forget all about the Jacobsen flare and other theory like looking down the runway during the flare, particularly when you need to get it on early. Pick your touchdown spot and look at it. You go where you look. Of course look up during the rollout, but doing so too early always seems to prolong the touchdown.

I find it best just to land the aircraft :8

[beached az]

God in trouble with CARZA again?

is thick minee back?

Clearly not, there are no DHC8s on YPAM yet. :O
YING - DCT - YPAM and other untapped markets :D

:ok:

[dejapoo]

Haha remember the KFC he she they wanted the FA to sell/hand out on TL PAM. So good.

[Slippery_Pete]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ojt-zS5IaQ

I don't see what all the fuss is about, you just roll to a stop.

PS I don't think they crossed the threshold at 50ft, and that didn't look like touching down 300m into the runway. I also reckon that approach was a tad steeper than 3 degrees.

That’s a Bongo - piece of piss on that runway. I could have done a stop and go there back in the day!

[Slippery_Pete]

This reminds me of a Pprune thread many years ago about an operator in the north of WA, where all the dirty laundry was aired out in public.

Time to get my popcorn.

[beached az]

Haha remember the KFC he she they wanted the FA to sell/hand out on TL PAM. So good.

I'd forgotten about that :D Classic.

Then there was the dismantling of a drinks vending machine to fit in the back of the C402C (Sadly no longer serviceable due to a take off "accident" in Melanesia :ugh:) to supplement the bottom line by selling drinks in the YPAM Terminal.....just in case sort sector RPT in a DHC8 didn't prove to be the next big thing.

BAz :ok:

[Dry_Twotter]

Be rest assured that I am not associated with the blue shed

So we’ll need to add honesty to the list of things to do.

Also one for you Macca, VMC below LSALT

[Maccamacpherson]

So we’ll need to add honesty to the list of things to do.

Also one for you Macca, VMC below LSALT

oh hey Macca. We talkin actual VMC or I’m not happy with the competition so I’m going to diba dob vmc?

[CAVOK92]

Looks like the management at JTs airline are throwing the toys out of the cot.

🙄. . . .