Qantaslink/eastern Pilots Stopwork

[Four Points]

:rolleyes:


QANTASLINK/EAA PILOTS plan stopwork meeting on Tuesday 3rd September 2002. No flights will depart Sydney from 10.30 to 1700. This is all because the big Q wants ( badly) to ruin their lifestyle and pay nothing for it. Sorry QF, lifestyle is not for sale.

I have heard on the rumour mill that the Long Haul boys/girls received their pay increase with no trade offs. Is this true? Why is QF so hell bent on ruining EAAs lifestyle?

[Capt Coconut]

Which Long Haul boys/girls are you talking about? All long haul pilots are on a 12 month pay freeze that finishes at the end of the year I think.New EBA has not yet been negotiated.
All previous EBA's have involve numerous and significant trade off's.

[redsnail]

Doesn't EBA stand for Enterprise Bullying Agreement?

[Capt Fathom]

Well Four Points, I think Capt Coconut just quashed that rumour. Next.

[Alien Pilot]

To have QF ( badly ) ruin your life.....Good thing your not a Southern Pilot then.......:mad:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

This is a big issue. These Eastern guys have had it " Tough" for years now.

[2daddies]

Or an Impulse pilot for that matter, Alien.

Qantas would be a swear word in my house if I could afford to have one after being made redundant!:p

P.S - Douglas. Anything heard on the arrival of more 717s? Rumours have gone from end of 2002 to early/mid 2003 and I'm beginning to get a touch concerned that they might get here even later than that.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Four Points. If these Eastern pilots dont like the " Conditions " that they are being " forced to endure " perhaps they could leave. They should not forget forget that at the end of the day it is the TRAVELLING public and not the NON TRAVELLING public that keeps us all in a job.

[Hugh Jarse]

D McD,
Unless you actually work for Eastern and have done so for a few years, I hardly think you are qualified to make the statement:
If these Eastern pilots dont like the " Conditions " that they are being " forced to endure " perhaps they could leave.

The decision to take this action has been deferred twice now as an act of goodwill. Unfortunately this goodwill has not been reciprocated from the highest level (externally). So it is a decision that has not been made in haste.

I'd like to come back here in December and compare the names on the seniority list if there is not a satisfactory resolution to this matter. Perhaps you'll be right.....:(
---------------------------------------------

Even a dog recognises loyalty. Why can't some employers?

[Pimp Daddy]

What conditions are they hammering? Seems like Eastern get the short end of the stick in a few areas, strange since they were supposedly the profitable one.

I have heard your engineers get crap pay as well.

And I have to feel for your Techies on the BWT o/n when you do BWT-MEL in the morning and the F/A gets off for 24hrs in MEL and the drivers keep driving :eek: !! What's the go with that, if it's legal for the drivers to keep driving then why don't the bunchuckers keep chucking buns?

Good luck.

[Mr Wright]

Just a friendly comment. Has anybody had a look outside the world of EAA lately to see how the rest of the regional airlines are travelling. Why receive more money than other regional crews? The big Q is not going to bow to staff salary increases just because "they made a profit" for the year. How many Q shares have you all been issued with lately??? Yes, everyone deserves the CPI increase. Staff having already accepted an increase some time ago for the Big Dash, wouldn't CPI be enough? I'm sure some interesting posts will follow!

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Jarse no I do not work for EAA. I just cant help but feel that there is a bit of a head in the sand mentality. There are so many guys out of work in this country at the moment. Obviously there are issuses that you need to sort out. I wonder how Four points would feel if his livelyhood was ripped out from under him as happened in 89 and recently. Thats what I would call BADLY RUINING a lifestyle.

Is it true out of interest that EAA recently recieved a rebuke from QF management for not operating efficiently and or profitably?

Best of luck with the battle ahead. Dougy.

[Hugh Jarse]

Mr Wright, if you consider ONE PERCENT as a pay increase for an aircraft with almost 50% more capacity, then I guess we did get a payrise. Wow, I had no idea what to do with my $360 after tax. However, it did partly cover the disproportionate cost of living increase.

All the payrises we've had in the last 8 years have beel LESS than CPI. So real wages have reduced as well as the conditions lost just to get less than CPI.

I suggest you go to OSIRIS (http://www.osiris.gov.au) and see who get paid more than us. Southern and Skywest are just two others that I can think of that do better. And good on them. Remember that ANY conditions attached to ANY job are usually a result of hard work put in by employees/unions.

The reason wages are going down in this industry is that people are prepared to accept lousy conditions because they are desperate and will do just about anything to get that airline job. That's fine if you want it.

That's why you get such well thought out responses from people like "Go on, leave. I'll do it for less". Wish I had a $ for every time I saw that somewhere on this and other BBS's. Pilots are their own worst enemy. And Companies know that.

All we are trying to do is MAINTAIN our conditions. The cost of living has gone up more than 7% since I last had my salary increased.

D.McD: No rebuke that I'm aware of. The Company is quite profitable. Just remember this is not a strike. It is protected action permitted under Industrial Relations legislation.

To quote one of my colleagues "We are not asking for a big payrise, we're just asking not to be screwed". That is all we ask.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

I wasnt aware that it was possible not to be screwed in aviation!!

[Mr Wright]

After all that, is the stopwork going ahead? If so, it will be good for the opposition!

[Hugh Jarse]

There has been no contact apart from an email from the GM asking for reconsideration.

Crews have been advised of their duty changes today.

[positivegee]

Has anybody considered the implications if QF asks Sunstate and Southern to cover some of EAA's routes should the stop work occur?

Should the other QF Regional pilots refuse to fly those routes, and what would be the legal implications if they did refuse?

[Ramjager]

Hi Guys
It seems that Southern guys are doing both AY and CH today through the stop work.
Bit of a pity as at the end of the day we are now also battling for their future pay and conditions as well.

As for Mr Wright.You will find the pay increase Eastern took was an intial 1% to over the arrival of the first 2 300's only.

We now have another 3 and as per the previous EBA a further rise was to be negotiated.In the case negotiation is a one way street NO,No or No.So much for negotiation.
Two can play that game!!

From some of the comments on this forum you can clearly see why pilots in Australia are some of the lowest paid in the world on a cost of living basis when compared to Europe and the US and will continue to be so while these attitude's persist.

People who are not prepared to stand up for what they are worth have ruined this industry all in aid of the mighty flying hour. They also seem to have forgotten.

It is just another type of JOB! You must get what is best for you and your family while you can as we are all just expendable units these days.
Get what you can while you can as you never now when the music will stop.

[Pimp Daddy]

Appears to be one return by a Southern 146 on each of those routes but prob the legal implications are that they can't refuse. Could go sick I suppose.

Also don't forget the Southern guys, especially the jet guys seem to be getting right royally screwed at the mo anyway.

[CAYNINE]

PD, correct the guidlines of industrial action these days are very specific, for Southern to refuse to do the flights would be deemed as a secondary boycott of another Companies disputewhich is unprotected action that can be prosecutable in court to those involved. Eastern's action is protected, as it is within a ligitimate negotiating????? period.

You would be pleased to know though that two Southern pilots did come down with sudden illness when their shifts were allocated on the said day.

Every one that reads this post should be aware that Qantas is showing all the signs of an employer which doesn't give a flying f*** about outcomes, loyalty and people, only that the fat useless executive pigs get to show the boss how hard they can screw the workers of the Regionals!!!

We all talk about "the culture" within our companies from time to time, what is good and what is bad, but Q is driving every pilot, FA,engineer, and ground staffer to total despair. The culture now is "why bother to do that bit extra to help out, or promote your company, the pri*** will tell you one thing and renegg on it as soon as your back is turned.

Roll on SQ, VB, or anyone else that can stick it up Q!!!

[penny_benjamin]

Flight crew, cabin crew get so obviously screwed.
I can't understand why management act so blindly to this fact.
It infuriates me that we have to fight for what's fair!
Yes, we may be our own worst enemies when it comes to keeping our jobs...our so "to die for" jobs...NOT!!! Management would not bat an eyelid at a mass exodus. It wouldn't make them rethink why ppl left, it would just leave space for some other would-be to put up with...wot a stupid thing to say.
If the thousands of ppl who spend their days dreaming of a career in the aviation industry knew how badly our little regional gets screwed maybe they would think otherwise.
I'm glad the SH and LH F/A's think they are living heaven on earth, I just don't think I can tolerate getting treated like a piece of scum while I wait for my time to come...a four and a half year apprenticeship to put up with the attiitudes and ego's we haven't had the pleasure of meeting yet!
We are the ground roots of Q, we contribute to that multimillion dollar profit Dixon boasts about...he should be congratulating us.
Thank me for busting my balls every day so you can have ur impressive bottom line.
If a dog acknowlegdes loyalty, we can't ur employer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Staff travel shouldn't be considered a privilege, it should be a kickback, a showing of appreciation for ur work. And staff shouldn't give attitude and growl at each other when they use it!!!! Everybody uses it, there's no reason why you should get sneered at when you check in or given greasies b/c ur sitting in business class...why can't staff show each other some respect.
And I don't care if ur a SH or LH F/A, am I the scum of the earth b/c I fly regional...c'mon people, get ova it!
:mad: :( :rolleyes:

[b55]

positivegee,
Southern(>Eastern) pilots come through the Sunnies crew room and cheerfully tell the Sunnies pilots that they are coming up to Qld soon and taking their captain slots. Sunnies fights its own EBA battles. Eastern can do the same.

[Hugh Jarse]

Firstly, Eastern don't go to QLD, except on a diversion. Southern might, but they voted against the common seniority list back in 2000. That's a pity.

Eastern, along with Sunstate (presumably YOUR pilot group?) voted FOR common seniority.

Secondly, the 3 airlines are separate and autonomous (at the moment). Therefore, the Southern pilots have no more entitlement to come in and displace Sunstate pilots than somebody off the street does.

This is pure scaremongering on your part.

Thirdly, all 3 pilot groups are back in discussion with a view towards a common seniority list. Hopefully this time it will be resolved.

Finally, all the crap that's going on at the moment is entirely out of the hands of pilot groups. It's being driven by the Company. So perhaps you should redirect your anger away from your colleagues (who generally support full integration) and wish to retain as many jobs as possible.

Play the ball, not the man.....

[b55]

Hugh Jarse, I agree with everything you have said but you're wrong on two things; southern pilots walk through the sunnies crew room every day and what has been said there by them has been said. It seems they believe that the intergration is for their benefit. sad really, I totally agree.

[Alien Pilot]

b55

I dont know which Southern pilot you have been talking to, but not one of them has ever said in our crew room that we would take your commands, so I assume you are trying to turn Eastern away from us as the intergration is being negotiated. Dont do this we have been shafted hard enough already.

[b55]

Alien Pilot , it is very sad but very true that it has been said PUBLICALLY in the sunstate crew room by SOUTHERN PILOTS!!!!!!

[Alien Pilot]

b55

O.K suppose its true, I just can't imagine which pilot's would say this as they all support Sunstate pilot's.

[spinout]

wouldn't be a 146 crew out of canberra ....:eek:

[Pimp Daddy]

Canberra 146 crew have made some interesting statements - at one stage some decided they should be given 737 commands in QF when Southern closed down.

But their comments don't help. All the Sunnies crew I have come across have been have been very concerned and supportive about whats happening as it could be them next.

[CAYNINE]

B55,

If you are going to attempt to wind up Southern pilots with this sacrosanct crap then I suggest you call the Chief pilot at Southern and discuss it with him.

I have never heard any Southern pilot ever bag or belittle a Sunnies pilot, if you want to pursue this line you must be so thin skinned it makes me wonder what sort of insecurities you suffer. Southern has always had a close association with Sunstae, at one time they owned them, so to go head to head with them and write the cap you have is not going to help solve anything. I have always found the Sunstate pilots in Brissy friendly and supportive, if some idiot did say something then take it as some idiot who should know better, no one is coming to Sunnies to take Commands, so lighten up.

As HJ knows Southern and Eastern have been at each others throats for years but after a few unfortunate incidents where stupid things were said from both sides there is now a desire to get on with it and fight the common enemy, the morons in Q!!!!!!

There will always be rivalry between the regionals but B55 either get on with it or find a job that is more in line with your name.

[flipside]

I find it interesting that you talk about Qlink regionals saying things against each other which may influence the outcome of seniority list negotiations. Think about this one, what has been the attitude towards Impulse pilots and now you want integration onto their list, good luck i'll back it out

[positivegee]

B55

I don't doubt what you have heard because I have heard similar.

I think this comment was made in relation to when there is a common seniority list for the QF Regionals.

My understanding is that when a new route is created that does not displace existing crews and routes, then this route would be open for bidding by all the QF Regional pilots on a seniority basis. This would be the case whether the new route was based in SYD, MEL, BNE or Timbuktoo. It is therefore possible that senior ex Southern pilots may be able to prevent a Sunstate pilot getting the slot even though it may be based in BNE. This also means that a Sunnies pilot could prevent an Eastern (ex Southern) getting a SYD job as well.

Remember, the individual Regional's don't own the routes, QF does and they can (as they have done already) put whatever pilots/aircraft where ever they want, on what ever route they want.

The only way to protect the Regional routes for the pilot group is by negotiation with QF. At the moment, the best looking solution is a combined seniority list that protects current route structures and pilot numbers and gives open bidding on a seniority basis on all new routes. This seems fair and gives everyone the opportunity to bid for a position on new, higher paying equipment.

[CAYNINE]

Flippy, Flippy, Flippy,

I don't recall anyone saying they want to "integrate" onto your list. What has been mentioned though is that as the SAA jet drivers have been displaced it was worthwhile exploring the possibility of employment opportunities with Impulse.
This was to be at the bottom of your list, AFTER all the 1900 drivers.

So don't get your thrust levers in a knot 'ol son as I have said on another thread NO-ONE is trying to push any one out of a job other than of course our illustrious management who wouldn't know what a pilot goes through all his/her career to try and achieve some sort of secure future, nor do they give a toss that they are destroying people's lives and careers.

Admittedly there have been many things that have been said by pilots in the regionals over the years that have damaged any trust of each other, just ask Hugh, but this is a time to work things out not get stuck into each other with petty s*** that will achieve nothing and have the idiots in Q laughing at how cannibalistic we can be.

If that means integrated seniority then it will be negotiated amongst all regionals, not just Eastern and Southern.

One more thing to ponder where do you all think NJS will sit in the picture once the146 is replaced with the EMB175?

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

2Daddies. A friendly word of advice mate. Choose your words carefully when posting on both forums. LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS. Im sure you know what Im on about.

Regards Douglas

[JULIET WHISKEY]

At the time....
Those in the know will relate to this!

Quoted,
"what our competitors are receiving"

What competitors???????

[Mr Wright]

JW, it would seem the blinkers need to be taken off. Take a look around.