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Odins Raven
22nd Jun 2023, 16:26
Iím new to the Airbus, having previously flown Boeing and other types.

Since there is no brake cooling table, is there a particular technique to work out whether I should be landing with max reverse to limit brake temps? I want to use idle reverse as much as possible but I donít want the brakes to be amber by the time I push back / reach the runway.

For info: Our fleet DOES NOT have brake fans and the turnaround times vary from 45 minutes to 1 hour.

Any help would be much appreciated.

321XLR
22nd Jun 2023, 16:37
This article may be useful:

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/take-care-of-your-brakes/

New-ish to Airbus (1000 hrs now) but still learning, I have used the Airbus Safety First site many times

airseb
23rd Jun 2023, 10:16
You can find the tables in the MEL at the brake temp indicator item,
donít have my ipad with me so canít be more specific

revida
23rd Jun 2023, 13:41
it's essential to assess the ambient temperature.
When conditions are particularly warm outside, brake temperatures tend to heat up more rapidly and using maximum reverse thrust may help decrease them significantly. Under such circumstances, using maximum reverse thrust may also be beneficial in order to help lower temperatures during landing and reduce brake temperatures further.
However, in cooler environments you should switch to idle reverse thrust to reduce wear on the brakes and ensure they won't overheat by the time your plane lands or you reach its runway destination.
Considerations should be given when planning for turnaround times of 45 minutes to 1 hour, in which parking in shaded areas would prevent excessive heat build-up, with parking brake released until just prior to pushback for airflow around brakes and tires. Communicate your brake cooling concerns to the ground crew. They might be able to provide additional cooling measures like using water carts during turnarounds to spray cool water over your brakes for added cooling effects.

Check Airman
23rd Jun 2023, 17:45
Out of curiosity, why donít you want to use max reverse? My previous company had no brake fans either. The only way to keep the brakes cool enough for the quick turns was with a lot of reverse.

Hey m8
23rd Jun 2023, 17:54
Happens quite often. Rev max will reduce brk temp if autobrake used. I usually advise tower that Iíll use further rw exit. No auto brk and Manual breaking below 100 knots will greatly reduce the brk temp.

iggy
24th Jun 2023, 01:41
They might be able to provide additional cooling measures like using water carts during turnarounds to spray cool water over your brakes for added cooling effects.

I've always heard that carbon brakes don't do well with water splashing on them...

revida
24th Jun 2023, 07:21
I've always heard that carbon brakes don't do well with water splashing on them...
Carbon brakes used on aircraft such as A320 aircraft can indeed be vulnerable to water splashing. When water comes in contact with hot carbon brakes, it may trigger thermal shock; when this happens it causes carbon material cracking or delaminating which compromises their performance and safety.

sonicbum
24th Jun 2023, 10:41
Iím new to the Airbus, having previously flown Boeing and other types.

Since there is no brake cooling table, is there a particular technique to work out whether I should be landing with max reverse to limit brake temps? I want to use idle reverse as much as possible but I donít want the brakes to be amber by the time I push back / reach the runway.

For info: Our fleet DOES NOT have brake fans and the turnaround times vary from 45 minutes to 1 hour.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Hi,

use Max Rev as much as possible, one engine taxi in/out. Also consider extending the Landing Gear a little earlier to land with cool brakes; this is quite helpful when doing multiple short sectors.
Thatís basically all you can do to keep your brakes cool.
When taking off with brakes close to the limit, do not leave the gear down to cool it down, unless you want to hear from flight safety. Thatís a very bad habit some people have but itís not a procedure unless dictated by MEL requirements (one brake u/s). If you get a brakes hot ECAM after takeoff, which you probably will when taking off close to the 300, comply with it. Watch out for gear speed limits for retraction once cooled.
Get the gear down early in approach and try to touchdown with brakes below 100.

AerocatS2A
24th Jun 2023, 19:12
Carbon brakes used on aircraft such as A320 aircraft can indeed be vulnerable to water splashing. When water comes in contact with hot carbon brakes, it may trigger thermal shock; when this happens it causes carbon material cracking or delaminating which compromises their performance and safety.

As water can splash onto brakes during wet or rainy conditions, being extra cautious to decrease thermal shock risks is key to protecting them from being overburdened with liquid. Here are a few strategies for doing just that.

Taxiing and takeoff: Be wary of large puddles or areas with standing water on the runway; whenever possible, opt for dryer sections when possible.

Landing Technique: After landing, avoid excessive braking until the aircraft has decelerated and its wheels have spun enough to clear away any water accumulation on its brakes. This can be accomplished using gradual brake pressure initially before gradually increasing it as wheels rotate more quickly.

Once on the ground, keep the brakes lightly applied while taxiing so airflow can help cool them down, helping evaporate any residual moisture and keeping your brakes within their safe temperature range.

This is why you shouldnít use ChatGPT to answer factual questions folks.

Superpilot
24th Jun 2023, 20:48
Is the idea that manual braking keeps brake temps lower compared to Auto Brake just anecdotal or is there anything from Airbus to suggest so?

Hey m8
25th Jun 2023, 08:55
Is the idea that manual braking keeps brake temps lower compared to Auto Brake just anecdotal or is there anything from Airbus to suggest so?

Itís a common sense. You start using brakes at lower speed, you have lower brakes temp as a result.

metro301
25th Jun 2023, 16:50
Communicate your brake cooling concerns to the ground crew. They might be able to provide additional cooling measures like using water carts during turnarounds to spray cool water over your brakes for added cooling effects.

Water is an incredibly bad idea due to thermal shock. Standard procedure in the Middle East is to direct cold air from an air conditioning cart onto the brakes.

Fly3
26th Jun 2023, 02:14
Once on the ground, keep the brakes lightly applied while taxiing so airflow can help cool them down, helping evaporate any residual moisture and keeping your brakes within their safe temperature range.

What utter rubbish!

Superpilot
26th Jun 2023, 09:28
Itís a common sense. You start using brakes at lower speed, you have lower brakes temp as a result.

Hardly a fair comparison!

Hey m8
26th Jun 2023, 11:29
Hardly a fair comparison!
ok, what your point?

Superpilot
26th Jun 2023, 18:29
The point is if you brake manually within 2 seconds of touch down in the exact same way as the Autobrake, the brake temperatures are going to be exactly the same. There are people who believe that just by pushing a button, you are destined for hotter brakes. When comparing, at least make it a level playing field.

Hey m8
26th Jun 2023, 19:54
The point is if you brake manually within 2 seconds of touch down in the exact same way as the Autobrake, the brake temperatures are going to be exactly the same. There are people who believe that just by pushing a button, you are destined for hotter brakes. When comparing, at least make it a level playing field.

Now I see. Iím saying exactly the same. Thatís why I suggest to use manual braking at lower speed (below 100 kts) and not to use autobrake. Looks like you misunderstood me

AerocatS2A
26th Jun 2023, 20:29
All good in theory but lots of airports have runway occupancy procedures that mean you don’t have the luxury of waiting to slow down before applying the brakes.

Check Airman
26th Jun 2023, 20:38
You shouldnít have to give everyone whiplash just to satisfy runway occupancy times.

AerocatS2A
27th Jun 2023, 02:04
Low auto brake shouldn’t be giving anyone whiplash.

Jonty
27th Jun 2023, 08:01
Iím new to the Airbus, having previously flown Boeing and other types.

Since there is no brake cooling table, is there a particular technique to work out whether I should be landing with max reverse to limit brake temps? I want to use idle reverse as much as possible but I donít want the brakes to be amber by the time I push back / reach the runway.

For info: Our fleet DOES NOT have brake fans and the turnaround times vary from 45 minutes to 1 hour.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Iíve never had to wait for brakes to cool before takeoff in 15 years of flying the A320/21. And thatís flying into some very short and hot airports. If the brakes are hot on turnaround turn the parking brake off to increase airflow around the brake pack.

Wether to use max reverse is a judgment call. If youíre looking at a short runway, heavy aircraft (medium auto brake/flap full), and a 45 min turn, then max reverse will help the brakes.

Smooth Airperator
27th Jun 2023, 11:56
Jonty, I had a similar experience to you for the best part of 15 years. Then it happened. Where I least expected it. Smaller airports with short runways actually give us better control over managing hot brakes. Ludicrous airport layouts like Barcelona where you can be parked on the far side of the airport only to then have to taxi around the entire perimeter of the airport before you can depart (runway crossings not allowed) are the real culprit. 10 brake applications from 30-10 Kts (our company doesn't allow single engine taxi out) on a 30 degree day without brake fans will give you hot brakes at line up.

Amadis of Gaul
4th Jul 2023, 21:39
Now I see. Iím saying exactly the same. Thatís why I suggest to use manual braking at lower speed (below 100 kts) and not to use autobrake. Looks like you misunderstood me
I wait until 70kts, especially in places like Vegas. Reverser to idle, feet on the brakes simultaneously. Works great every time. In fact, this past Sunday, we were landing 26L in Vegas when the tower asked us to exit at A6 instead of A7 since they flew a 737 of an airline with a widget on its tail right up our butt. I applied the brakes at 70kts, and even though I did so somewhat more robustly than normal, they never went above 200C. It was +37C outside.

AerocatS2A
4th Jul 2023, 23:12
If you're landing somewhere long enough to have the luxury of delaying brake application until 70 knots then brake cooling is never going to be an issue anyway. Try landing in 1900m and get back to me.

AerocatS2A
4th Jul 2023, 23:13
Jonty, I had a similar experience to you for the best part of 15 years. Then it happened. Where I least expected it. Smaller airports with short runways actually give us better control over managing hot brakes. Ludicrous airport layouts like Barcelona where you can be parked on the far side of the airport only to then have to taxi around the entire perimeter of the airport before you can depart (runway crossings not allowed) are the real culprit. 10 brake applications from 30-10 Kts (our company doesn't allow single engine taxi out) on a 30 degree day without brake fans will give you hot brakes at line up.
Indeed, it's often the taxi that causes the issues rather than the landing.

Amadis of Gaul
5th Jul 2023, 02:43
If you're landing somewhere long enough to have the luxury of delaying brake application until 70 knots then brake cooling is never going to be an issue anyway. Try landing in 1900m and get back to me.
Sounds like LGA to me. Same technique, except when landing a heavy 321, in which case it's medium autobrakes until the reverser rev up, then autobrakes off until 70kts then feet on the brakes again. Won't keep them under 200C, but under 300C-350C for sure. By the time we deplane 228 people and board up another 228, things will have cooled down nicely.

AerocatS2A
5th Jul 2023, 05:06
Sounds like LGA to me. Same technique, except when landing a heavy 321, in which case it's medium autobrakes until the reverser rev up, then autobrakes off until 70kts then feet on the brakes again. Won't keep them under 200C, but under 300C-350C for sure. By the time we deplane 228 people and board up another 228, things will have cooled down nicely.
Wellington, New Zealand. I find the best results is just to leave the medium brakes on until down to taxi speed. One brake application. Sometimes they go above 300 but I haven't had to use fans as yet.