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RMC
18th Jun 2023, 19:09
Our company always completes line checks with the LCC on jump seat.

It has always been accepted that the LCC is not part of the operating crew and therefore does not have to relieve other crew members so they can rest (although in practice most of us do). The problem is we almost always get the worst rest (the one you have next to no chance of sleeping in).

Two changes
(1) Company getting stupidly busy over the Summer meaning trainers are working virtually 100 hours every month (6 trans Atlantic trips) and are now becoming exhausted.
(2) The manuals have been rewritten to say LCC May be used to augment a crew.

Is this normal in other long haul operations? Where can I find references regarding this?

Thank you in advance.

Sea Plane Driver
18th Jun 2023, 20:13
Our company always completes line checks with the LCC on jump seat.

It has always been accepted that the LCC is not part of the operating crew and therefore does not have to relieve other crew members so they can rest (although in practice most of us do). The problem is we almost always get the worst rest (the one you have next to no chance of sleeping in).

Two changes
(1) Company getting stupidly busy over the Summer meaning trainers are working virtually 100 hours every month (6 trans Atlantic trips) and are now becoming exhausted.
(2) The manuals have been rewritten to say LCC May be used to augment a crew.

Is this normal in other long haul operations? Where can I find references regarding this?

Thank you in advance.

Not sure which country your are from, or which airline..?
I was a Line Check guy in the US for a 121 long haul outfit a few years ago. (Seems like it anyways, 2004-2007)
Occasionally in the cockpit jump-seat, other times in the left seat for checking FO's, or right seat to check Capt's.
No breaks, we were on 3-man cockpit planes, old classic 747-200s.
The highest ranking pilot should be able to chose the breaks, (me) or ask the crew who is most tired and who wants, or needs a break the most.
In reality we were all dead tired flying cargo from the US all over South America and took turns trying to help out the other guy if he was fading.:sad:

Don Coyote
18th Jun 2023, 21:14
EASA regulation AMC1 ORO.FC.230 does state that for the person conducting line checks "in the case of long haul operations where additional operating flight crew are carried, the person may fulfil the function of a cruise relief pilot and should not occupy either pilot’s seat during take-off, departure, initial cruise, descent, approach and landing."

That said, if they are exhausted then surely they should declare themselves as unfit to fly/fatigued.

Sea Plane Driver
18th Jun 2023, 22:02
That said, if they are exhausted then surely they should declare themselves as unfit to fly/fatigued.

In a perfect world, absolutely: Call in fatigued.
In the real world (The real non-sced cargo world) there is no fatigue, we are all night heroes.:ooh:​​​​​​​

FLX/MCT
18th Jun 2023, 23:33
My outfit (european legacy carrier) usually rosters the line training captain conducting a line check to be part of the active crew, however must occupy the jumpseat for takeoff and landing.

FullWings
19th Jun 2023, 07:58
Same here. If itís within 2-crew limits, then the check capt. is just an observer. If you need 3/4 pilots to do the sector, then they form part of the crew but only observe during the departure and arrival phases.